A realistic view amid the panic

[oplholik]

It seems like I read in the Deeming regulations that 0 nic e liquids were still going to be considered a tobacco product. I'll have to go back and re read that part. Just saying that 0nic may not be safe from the powers that be. I DIY and I am stocked up on all I need. I urge others to stock up at whatever level they are comfortable at. Even if it doesn't get that bad, you will still use your extra stock eventually.

I believe that this is where "intended use" comes in.

 

[Tempesta]

Problem here is, no one can predict what is going to happen. Maybe the lawsuits will be successful, maybe they won't. Maybe Congress will come to its senses--oh, wait, this is an election year, so everything is already fouled up. I side with the "better be prepared" folks, but wouldn't it be better to spend your $ on the most endangered items: mods., coils, nic, etc.?

 

[Stinkytofus]

I'll admit, I'm just as guilty as the next person before I start. I've bought mods and tanks "just in case" and stored nic, probably way too much to use before it goes bad. It's just part of the mentality that can't be avoided right now.

So, where am I going with this?

I've contemplated what exactly is happening here. Much of what the FDA is doing is pretty much never going to fly in its entirety. Especially the gear part. Remove the nic and there is absolutely nothing there to regulate. Here is how I see it panning out as a huge back fire on the Government, BT, BP and the FDA.

The work arounds that have come up just on this forum in the LAST FEW DAYS could cripple the efforts of the FDA, and those are just the underhanded ones. What if a vape shop sold no nic and labeled their products as not to be used with nicotine, kind of like other shops listing their products as to be used only with tobacco products, ya right. Now the "other" shop does not sell the "intended" product but can still legally sell their wares, knowing full well what they will be used for. Why will a vape shop be any different, we will just have to source our own nic like the others have source their own, well, "other".

The war on drugs has been going on since the Reagan era. Yet shops sell drug paraphanallia every day....you think they can shut down vape gear sans nicotine, no way can it be legally done.

Are things going to be exactly the same, no, most likely not. Are times going to get to the point where we all need to just go back to smoking or quit altogether without choice? No, I don't see that either. Remember, you can still but smokes, tax free, in many places through legal loopholes. Guess what, nic is gonna be the same, there will also be the black or gray market for nic.

If you want to get all upset about a government over stepping its bounds, go for it. If you think our rights are being intruded upon, you're right. If you think the days of having a choice to vape or not is coming to a close, well, then you may be over reacting.

he is saying, for example.. {other things} are being sold when {other stuff} is illegal, why are they even legally selling {other things} when the purpose of it is clear as day, could apply for wares as well, good point, but at this point they view the wares as tobacco products even if with or without tobacco use... so i dunno...

 

[daviedog]

I think if it was legal for them to assume that they can predict the future and prove what you will use an item for, head shops would have closed years ago.....yet.

I only say this because the precedence has been set.

Remember, the FDA can say whatever they want, if there is no legal precedence to enforce it they are SOL.

Head shops are not challenging Big Tobacco..

 

[Wow1420]

oh, but they do need precedence. One good attorney uses my example and this whole thing has to be reconsidered. If anything, we have precedence on our side via the 2009 debacle, which I'll admit, I was still a smoker during, so have limited knowledge of.

They do have precedence. The rules for vape PMTA approval are modeled on what tobacco would have to go through to have a brand new cig approved these days. The main reason it's not so hard on BT is that their existing products were grandfathered in. And it was the judge in the 2009 decision who told the FDA they can regulate vape products as tobacco.

 

[daviedog]

Where is this discouragement? did you read my post? It is realistic to believe that nicotine is the only regulation that will be followed through on completely. Therefore it will be what most need to stock up on. Tell me which basic rebuilding supply is going to disappear. You think welding wire and cosmetics cotton are gonna dry up cause the FDA doesn't want you to vape? Get real bud, and stop buying into the panic and hysteria. Think logically and you won't spend a fortune on things you will be able to get forever. That is all I said, how you got "I'm all set and screw the rest of you" out of that is beyond me.

You may aquire some items 'forever'. But think of the future Taxes.
If you have the finances buy Now..

 

[BackDoc]

"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum" if you want peace, prepare for war

 

[Jdurand]

All,
I don't "disagree" with any of you, let me make that clear. This is all a very personal thing to us. It's a way of life, an addiction.

It is absolutely amazing the how this is all effecting people. From one end of the spectrum to the other. I just find this interesting because I feel I have, myself, gone from one end to the other just over the last few days. First I wanted to get my hands on everything vape en masse. I almost hit the order button on a very large order (almost 600.00 bucks) and I had my "a-ha" moment. I was telling a tale based on my personal experience. If it helped any one great. If it only helped me, that's cool too. I am enjoying reading everyones view on this and feel we can all learn what we need to to by sharing these views.

 

[Rickajho]

I've contemplated what exactly is happening here. Much of what the FDA is doing is pretty much never going to fly in its entirety. Especially the gear part. Remove the nic and there is absolutely nothing there to regulate. Here is how I see it panning out as a huge back fire on the Government, BT, BP and the FDA.

The work arounds that have come up just on this forum in the LAST FEW DAYS could cripple the efforts of the FDA, and those are just the underhanded ones. What if a vape shop sold no nic and labeled their products as not to be used with nicotine, kind of like other shops listing their products as to be used only with tobacco products, ya right. Now the "other" shop does not sell the "intended" product but can still legally sell their wares, knowing full well what they will be used for. Why will a vape shop be any different, we will just have to source our own nic like the others have source their own, well, "other".

The war on drugs has been going on since the Reagan era. Yet shops sell drug paraphanallia every day....you think they can shut down vape gear sans nicotine, no way can it be legally done.

The problem with that logic is: While those "other" pipes can be used for tobacco - which is still legal - vape gear can only be used for... vaping nicotine or "other." "Other" uses are still largely illegal. And the nicotine we are all discussing here could have the door slammed hard on both on-line and vape shop purchases to every degree. Even liquids that contain no nicotine at all if you "intend" to vape it. The FDA likes that very vague word - intent.

If the FDA's previous track record for denying applications for new tobacco products is any indicator of how badly they would deal with even 100 new PMTA's we could be waiting 5+ years just for them to say "no" to 10 applications.

What I'm getting at is what is the point of hardware if you have nothing to vape in it? For those who need or want nicotine, if things go the way the regulations are written, once the dates kick in you might not be able to get any through viable channels for a long time coming.

 

[Jdurand]

The problem with that logic is: While those "other" pipes can be used for tobacco - which is still legal - vape gear can only be used for... vaping nicotine or "other." "Other" uses are still largely illegal. And the nicotine we are all discussing here could have the door slammed hard on both on-line and vape shop purchases to every degree. Even liquids that contain no nicotine at all if you "intend" to vape it. The FDA likes that very vague word - intent.

If the FDA's previous track record for denying applications for new tobacco products is any indicator of how badly they would deal with even 100 new PMTA's we could be waiting 5+ years just for them to say "no" to 10 applications.

What I'm getting at is what is the point of hardware if you have nothing to vape in it? For those who need or want nicotine, if things go the way the regulations are written, once the dates kick in you might not be able to get any through viable channels for a long time coming.

But you do agree we have close to two years to build up stocks. No, nothing new is on its way at this point, but I'll bet you the things we have now are about to be re-supplied in an even more abundant volume, a market flooded. Prices will rise at first, just due to panic, then we very well may see huge discounts due to the sheer inventory of items. You have time was part of my point that hasn't come across real well.

How long you can vape depends on how much DIY supplies you can store up.

 

[crxess]

If the FDA's previous track record for denying applications for new tobacco products is any indicator of how badly they would deal with even 100 new PMTA's we could be waiting 5+ years just for them to say "no" to 10 applications.

1 approval out of thousands of applications

Swedish Match North America, Inc. First to Cross FDA’s PMTA Finish Line

 

[Jdurand]

There are more smalltime vendors posting on this site than you might realise. There's loads of them. They are the ones getting "everyone else" pumped up over these regulations. And they are the ones who are going to go out of business. And it's those businesses that the government are targeting because they sell items like VG/PG, cotton pads etc at the most extortionate rates you simply wouldn't believe. And you'd only realise that if you were to shop around for these items at online business's who aren't vaping vendors. Then you know exactly what i'm talking about.

Tell 7-11 nobody will pay for convenience, It's not extortion when you're willing to pay. It's only really serious vape heads (like myself) who get a thrill out of buying cotton pads 100 at a time and wire by the 100 ft roll. The average vaper wouldn't have a clue how to store it long enough to use it. And I don't keep it a secret, Get your wire from the source, you know who they are, get cotton from beauty suppliers, easy enough. I don't mind paying extra to support a registered supplier here either. I hope you weren't talking about them, were you?

 

[WillyZee]

... everything's almost sold out

 

[crxess]

... everything's almost sold out

Had to adjust my FT cart 3-4 times before ever checking out. Things kept going out of stock.
Posted ............ and a In-Stock Item has had it hung for 3 days now. Good thing I really don't need ANYTHING!

Bought a Kanger Platinum 60w mini from 101Vapes, just to burn an on-line Visa Gift card most vendors kept rejecting. Was Free to me so what the heck.

No panic here, but I love to play

 

[salemgold]

The problem with that logic is: While those "other" pipes can be used for tobacco - which is still legal - vape gear can only be used for... vaping nicotine or "other." "Other" uses are still largely illegal. And the nicotine we are all discussing here could have the door slammed hard on both on-line and vape shop purchases to every degree. Even liquids that contain no nicotine at all if you "intend" to vape it. The FDA likes that very vague word - intent.

If the FDA's previous track record for denying applications for new tobacco products is any indicator of how badly they would deal with even 100 new PMTA's we could be waiting 5+ years just for them to say "no" to 10 applications.

What I'm getting at is what is the point of hardware if you have nothing to vape in it? For those who need or want nicotine, if things go the way the regulations are written, once the dates kick in you might not be able to get any through viable channels for a long time coming.

What you are not considering is that many of us have enough nicotine to vape for the rest of our lives and then some. We would like to be sure that we have the hardware to vape it with. I would much rather have and not need than to need and not have.

 

[Two_Bears]

and this is Assinine Politics! 0,3,6,9,12,18,24 will always be the same......Therefor it should be an FDA Approved Standardized table, Not a Separate approval process.

Grand Theft Government

You have that exactly right brother.

 

[Two_Bears]

better to have and not need ... than need and not have.

I still think the FDA will put a massive chokehold on eLiquid ... what good are the millions and millions of devices available if there's nothing to vape?

not everybody can continue on with just WalMart VG.

IMO, the days of new juice brands coming out every day will end after August 2016

Thats why i prep. Just so i can make those Bureaucrats irrelevant.

 

[Two_Bears]

Problem here is, no one can predict what is going to happen. Maybe the lawsuits will be successful, maybe they won't. Maybe Congress will come to its senses--oh, wait, this is an election year, so everything is already fouled up. I side with the "better be prepared" folks, but wouldn't it be better to spend your $ on the most endangered items: mods., coils, nic, etc.?

Thats where i am COMING from. Hope for best. Prepare just in case the worst happens

 

[Two_Bears]

You may aquire some items 'forever'. But think of the future Taxes.
If you have the finances buy Now..

Also think of inflation as well.

More vapers wanting less gear and nicotine base. The pricd is going to go up.

 

[Two_Bears]

"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum" if you want peace, prepare for war

I think the quote was

If you want peace; prepare for war. If you prepare for peace you will have war.