A Starbucks Vaping Story

[DC2]

Yes and Yes ... so I believe

I agree vaping is probably making the ANTZ pretty angry as it threatens to destroy everything they've worked for.
I don't know if it can cause them to accelerate their attacks though, as I'm pretty sure they are already going as fast as they can.

 

[Butters78]

How reputable is a thick headed individual calling another individual thick headed?

Farting is a natural body process and harmless. Do people need to be "educated" when they get disgruntled by my farting?

I think it's obvious to say that vaping is not 100% socially accepted right now. A lot of people need to "educate" themselves and stop treating vaping like it is a socially accepted activity.

When out in public vape all you want. When in private establishments such as stores/restaurants just ask them real quick to see if they are comfortable with it. Once were in a time where vaping is at a well known state I can understand people being all up in arms about bannings, but right now? You would be as ignorant as the ones your calling ignorant right now.

 

[Brusky]

And what if when that time arrives, vaping is ALREADY banned everywhere smoking is banned?

That's the way it's going to be in California pretty soon if we fail to stop the current bill.
How about where you live? How soon does it happen to you? Do you think we'll be able to turn back the clock?

I wonder if anyone can name any other things that have been banned before it was shown that there was a reason to do so.
And farting is certainly not a good example, because that isn't banned yet.

Farting wasn't an example. It was a metaphor.

Forcing people into accepting the belief of "I can vape anywhere I please because it's harmless" isn't going to help the acceptance of vaping in our communities.

I'm sure in the end a compromise for both parties would benefit the majority, rather than both oppositions being thick headed on what they want.

I doubt vaping will ever get banned completely. I'm sure it may soon be regulated like cigs and alcohol though.

 

[DC2]

I'm sure in the end a compromise for both parties would benefit the majority, rather than both oppositions being thick headed on what they want.

I see where you're coming from, but I'm not sure if you are aware of a couple of things...

The anti-smoking crusaders who are now fighting tooth-and-nail against vaping are not interested in any compromise.
This is not just an opinion, it is a fact, and is actually a documented part of the strategies and tactics that they employ against us.

That is why the same people introducing legislation to curtail our "right" to vape are fighting against legislation to ban sales to minors.
They are afraid such legislation will prevent them from passing the much more comprehensive legislation that they want.

 

[Cactus Breath]

I think there's a sweet spot somewhere between rolling over and being confrontational about it, and that's where we need to be. If I'm in an establishment that allows vaping, or I've asked permission and gotten the OK, then I'd stand my ground if somebody complained to me about it and tell them that it was allowed here, or that I'd received permission from management to do so. On the other hand, going out of our way to purposely aggravate people in the name of "taking our freedom back" is counterproductive. No, we're not going to convince the rabid ANTZ no matter what, but there are a lot of people who may be indifferent/uneducated who could swing to our side in terms of support if approached reasonably. If their first encounter is with "that ...... vaper" who's blowing huge clouds in a theater, grocery store, etc. because "he can!" and telling everybody to screw off and mind their own business, that support is most likely lost forever....and they'll be more than happy to share their opinion with anybody who'll listen to them. That's how we make enemies.

Be reasonable and exercise some common sense/courtesy. Don't roll over, but don't push the militant "it's legal, so I'll do it anywhere I want!" attitude either. Farting has been mentioned in this thread....it's perfectly legal to fart, but I don't go out of my way to clusterbomb theaters, grocery stores and coffee shops just so I can scream "SCREW YOU, IT'S LEGAL! I DO WHAT I WANT!" to anybody who dares to complain about it.

 

[DC2]

I think there's a sweet spot somewhere between rolling over and being confrontational about it, and that's where we need to be.

Exactly. And after thinking about it I came up with something I think is quite telling...

With respect to any issue there is a continuum, ranging from one extreme to the other.
Most of the people fall somewhere in the middle with respect to their opinions.

So what are the extremes here?

At one extreme we have people who want to vape everywhere no matter what.
At the other extreme we have people who believe we should vape only where smoking is allowed.

See what I did there?

 

[SAG]

This. ^^^^

 

[Cactus Breath]

Just another thought: Another of my hobbies (off-road vehicles) has been facing increased bans and legislation aimed at severely restricting or eliminating it. The ones who've done the biggest harm to our cause are inconsiderate riders who defy common sense/courtesy. There are (or in many cases, were) legal riding areas which bordered on residential neighborhoods. Many of those have been lost because riders take the attitude of "Hey it's legal, so I can do whatever I want!" - and they proceed to either ride at 7:00 am on a Sunday, waking up the entire neighborhood, or riding trails right along the back fences of houses, creating dust and noise which irritates the homeowners (when there are plenty of trails deeper into the riding area which wouldn't have the same effect). Guess what? The homeowners raise a stink, and the next thing you know there are "No Off Road Vehicles" signs posted. Another riding spot down the drain. Not only that, but those homeowners are now rabid anti-offroaders - they view it as nothing but an irritation by a bunch of inconsiderate ......, and would be perfectly happy to see it banned anywhere and everywhere.

It's a very similar boat to vaping - there are a lot of rabid tree-huggers (similar to the rabid ANTZ) who believe that off-road vehicles shouldn't ever be allowed anywhere, and no amount of science, common sense or anything else is going to change their minds. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who really don't care one way or the other....until some inconsiderate idiot does something stupid to change their mind.

 

[DC2]

Don't roll over, but don't push the militant "it's legal, so I'll do it anywhere I want!" attitude either.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the distinct impression that people think there are more of these types than there really are.
I sure hope there aren't as many of them as some people seem to think there are.

But to anyone out there who is acting like this, please don't.
And I ask that, knowing full well that if you're that kind of person, you won't be listening anyway.

 

[Glen Snyder]

And what if when that time arrives, vaping is ALREADY banned everywhere smoking is banned?

That's the way it's going to be in California pretty soon if we fail to stop the current bill.
How about where you live? How soon does it happen to you? Do you think we'll be able to turn back the clock?

I wonder if anyone can name any other things that have been banned before it was shown that there was a reason to do so.
And farting is certainly not a good example, because that isn't banned yet.

I do respect your right to your opinion. But we shall have to agree to disagree.

I've been a local political activist for many years and the side that stomps their feet in protest without the vote of public opinion on their side has invariably lost their battle nearly 100% of the time. On the other hand it is my personal experience that when "our" side has won the battle of public opinion "we" have won much more than lost. Politicians are going to respond to the will of the MAJORITY most of the time.

Ticking the ignorant off by what they perceive as brazen disregard CERTAINLY can't help. I agree that the anti smoking zealots are a lost cause, but they aren't the majority either. The majority is as stated earlier, non smokers. Here's an assumption I'll make...vapers will NEVER have the $$ to shout down the ANTZ. In turn that's why I think your approach is doomed to failure. JMO

Now I'm off to Nova for the rest of the day. Peace everybody

 

[DC2]

If someone vapes at Target and someone else calls corporate to complain, there will be a no e-cig use sign on the doors of every Target a few weeks later.

I'm not saying that you are making this argument, but I'd like to use your example to make a point...

There seems to be some people making an argument that if anyone vapes in Target they will stop us from vaping in Target.
So if we never vape in Target, we won't have to worry about them preventing us from vaping in Target.

So don't vape in Target, in order to make sure they continue to theoretically let us vape in Target, as long as we don't actually ever do it.

This is the society the majority of people have voted for.

You got that right.

 

[peterforpats]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the distinct impression that people think there are more of these types than there really are.
I sure hope there aren't as many of them as some people seem to think there are.

But to anyone out there who is acting like this, please don't.
And I ask that, knowing full well that if you're that kind of person, you won't be listening anyway.

there may not be a lot of people like that but they sure love starting threads and bragging about it.......

 

[DC2]

I do respect your right to your opinion. But we shall have to agree to disagree.

After reading the rest of your post I'm not sure how much we really disagree.

I've been a local political activist for many years and the side that stomps their feet in protest without the vote of public opinion on their side has invariably lost their battle nearly 100% of the time. On the other hand it is my personal experience that when "our" side has won the battle of public opinion "we" have won much more than lost. Politicians are going to respond to the will of the MAJORITY most of the time.

That is why the approach I advocate is to educate as many people as we can as fast as we can.

Ticking the ignorant off by what they perceive as brazen disregard CERTAINLY can't help. I agree that the anti smoking zealots are a lost cause, but they aren't the majority either. The majority is as stated earlier, non smokers. Here's an assumption I'll make...vapers will NEVER have the $$ to shout down the ANTZ. In turn that's why I think your approach is doomed to failure. JMO

So I guess our disagreement is that vaping in public where smoking isn't allowed will piss off more of the public then it will help educate them.
I'm not sure who is correct, but I am confident that acting like a smoker is not going to get us anywhere.

 

[DC2]

there may not be a lot of people like that but they sure love starting threads and bragging about it.......

Yes indeed, that's exactly what people like that do.

 

[InTheShade]

Could you tell us hat we are exhaleing then? It was to my believe that i exhale water vapor and vg and pg same as a fog machine. . . Harmless and in some casses mabey microscopic amounts of nicotine that was not absorbed but relitivly harmless

OP stated we are 'using' water vapor. I don't know about you but I don't vape water.

If he meant exhaling, common studies have found that the exhale is 66% water, the rest is a combination of PG, VG, Flavorings and nicotine as well as traces of other chemicals. There are few studies though...

As we still don't know the long term effects of these substances on our bodies as vapers, let alone those of people inhaling them in a passive way, I prefer to vape away from people. I also choose not to vape in a closed room where people may inhale these products without knowing and without choosing to do so.

 

[Huffelpuff]

Intellectual discourse on vaping as a metaphor:

 

[peakcomm]

... but there are a lot of people who may be indifferent/uneducated who could swing to our side in terms of support if approached reasonably. If their first encounter is with "that ...... vaper" who's blowing huge clouds in a theater, grocery store, etc. because "he can!" and telling everybody to screw off and mind their own business, that support is most likely lost forever....and they'll be more than happy to share their opinion with anybody who'll listen to them. That's how we make enemies.

I guess I lead a charmed life. I've been out and about publicly vaping for six months, across more than a dozen states, big cities and small, and I've never met one of these "...... vapers".

In fact, aside from the dozen or so smokers that I introduced to e-cigs and some fellow customers in B&M vape shops, I've only met two other vapers in the wild. In a Kentucky courthouse, a couple in their 20s saw me putting my PV in a bin before going through the metal detectors and stepped up to compare rigs. They were excited to meet a vaper outside their social circle, and eager to assure me that "Security here is cool with vaping everywhere except the courtrooms." We had a short but pleasant chat and went our separate ways.

So based on my experience, we vapers are practically invisible in public. Has anyone here personally seen or met one of these in-your-face "...... vapers"? If so, where? Are they a regional phenomenon and I just haven't visited their stomping grounds? Or are they more like Bigfoot -- lots of second-hand stories, but little genuine evidence?

Because I've got to say, it seems to me that spreading wild stories about "those obnoxious vapers" and encouraging us to restrict our own freedom for fear of even appearing to be "one of THEM" -- well, that would be a pretty good ANTZ strategy to keep us invisible and misunderstood while they try to steamroll their anti-vape laws through state and local venues.

 

[peterforpats]

I guess I lead a charmed life. I've been out and about publicly vaping for six months, across more than a dozen states, big cities and small, and I've never met one of these "...... vapers".

In fact, aside from the dozen or so smokers that I introduced to e-cigs and some fellow customers in B&M vape shops, I've only met two other vapers in the wild. In a Kentucky courthouse, a couple in their 20s saw me putting my PV in a bin before going through the metal detectors and stepped up to compare rigs. They were excited to meet a vaper outside their social circle, and eager to assure me that "Security here is cool with vaping everywhere except the courtrooms." We had a short but pleasant chat and went our separate ways.

So based on my experience, we vapers are practically invisible in public. Has anyone here personally seen or met one of these in-your-face "...... vapers"? If so, where? Are they a regional phenomenon and I just haven't visited their stomping grounds? Or are they more like Bigfoot -- lots of second-hand stories, but little genuine evidence?

Because I've got to say, it seems to me that spreading wild stories about "those obnoxious vapers" and encouraging us to restrict our own freedom for fear of even appearing to be "one of THEM" -- well, that would be a pretty good ANTZ strategy to keep us invisible and misunderstood while they try to steamroll their anti-vape laws through state and local venues.

little evidence? the point of this thread is how he vaped in starbucks- how do you know if anybody in the store was disturbed or offended by it? did he say anybody this is vaping and here is how it is NOT smoking? not according to his story- he just did it. who do you vape for? I vape for me and not to show or impress anybody else- I need the nicotine to help me shed 40 years of smoking. I am not ashamed of vaping but I don't need to stealth vape somewhere or offend(or not) anybody else. I guess I respect other people whether they mind or not. not everyone who is bothered by it will say something anyway. I just don't feel the need to satisfy my habit(no matter how much better it is than smoking) at the expense of anybody else. you obviously feel differently.. . you know how they say at a poker game if you can't spot the sucker in the first 30 minutes YOU are the sucker? well if you vape in places that don't allow it just to show everyone you can then guess what? you're the (bad word) vapor.

 

[Brusky]

Because I've got to say, it seems to me that spreading wild stories about "those obnoxious vapers" and encouraging us to restrict our own freedom for fear of even appearing to be "one of THEM" -- well, that would be a pretty good ANTZ strategy to keep us invisible and misunderstood while they try to steamroll their anti-vape laws through state and local venues.

I don't think we're discussing personal stories. More along the lines of what kinds of public discourse should be taken under various situations, with vaping.

 

[FunkyVapes]

I'm amazed nobody has pointed out the irony that arguably the most recognized vaping "celebrity" - Grimm Green - works for StarBucks. I'm not trying to make a point, I just find it funny...