Advancements in Vaping Technology...

[DergBerg]

It can be done, but outside of magnetic resonance range the transmission losses are fearsome. I don't have any figures handy, but even 10% efficiency would surprise me at the distance of "across the room." They make a "wireless" phone charger; you put a special back on your iPhone and lay it on the charging mat and it feeds power using a magnetic field to the special back and thence the battery. But it has to be laying on the mat-- a/k/a/ very close range-- to make it go. In a real sense, even radio transmits power as well as intelligence. But the power content is *tiny.* That's why they invented "amplifiers." Back to the drawing board on that one, I fear, unless you know more about antenna tech and the Square Law of Radiated Power than I do. I have had an idea for a "car mod" that would be-- sort of-- wireless. If you could get a very small (physical size and storage capacity) battery that nonetheless offered substantial current capacity, you could build a "cradle" for it that would fit in the cup holder. The battery would be good for 2 or 3 toots, and then you put it back in the cradle to charge again while you're waiting to take you next vape. I have done no research on it, though. I have no idea if such batteries are available. Even something the size of the 18350 is limited to 14 amps (Tensai) or 12 amps (AW), and most of them are 6 amps. Still, if we assume we had a 4 volt, 14 amp battery available, a 50% safety margin would let you draw 7 amps putting your resistance in the .6 Ohm range at 28 watts in a mech. A regulated mod might do better, but I can't build one. That's moderately respectable, if not in steamthrower territory.

Thanks for the response! Your idea sounds cool too... something like a capacitor mod. I have no idea how the output voltage/amperage could even be regulated though lol.

 

[suprtrkr]

Thanks for the response! Your idea sounds cool too... something like a capacitor mod. I have no idea how the output voltage/amperage could even be regulated though lol.

I never thought of a cap. They're making SuperCapacitors now, whatever that might mean. Is there a Double-E in the house?

 

[DergBerg]

I never thought of a cap. They're making SuperCapacitors now, whatever that might mean. Is there a Double-E in the house?

Enough dudes on here you would think so! No offense to the first EE to respond who will likely be a woman! lol

 

[zoiDman]

Thanks for the response! Your idea sounds cool too... something like a capacitor mod. I have no idea how the output voltage/amperage could even be regulated though lol.

This is where I thought the e-Cigarette Battery market would go if it was Unimpeded.

 

[suprtrkr]

Enough dudes on here you would think so! No offense to the first EE to respond who will likely be a woman! lol

Maybe we'll get lucky and @Mooch will glance at this thread...

 

[mauricem00]

Already, a lot of what we see on the market is completely unnecessary, and does little - if anything - to improve the quality of a vape.

For example, I've been using TC sense 2011 --- it's called 'KEEP THE DAMN COIL WET'.
So in reality, TC is as simple as not letting your cigarette lighter run out of lighter fluid.

it takes time, patients and hard work to acquire any complex skill those of us who value knowledge and the ability to "get things done" in any situation will invest that time and work but for the vast majority of people it is much easier to let some machine do it for you

 

[Mooch]

Howdy @suprtrkr
Sorry @DergBerg, I'm a guy.

You can use supercapacitors/ultracapacitors for truly astounding high power applications. Working with a client now on a A123+ultracapacitor combination battery pack that can easily supply over 400A for a second and then a steady 20A until the cells are discharged. All in about the size of your fist.

But, using just ultracaps, you would probably need something like the size of four 18650's for one second at 20A. I haven't done the math so don't quote me. Ultracaps are unsurpassed for short bursts, typically less than a second and often just milliseconds. But they have very, very low capacity compared to batteries.

Your 2-puff-then-recharge idea can definitely work with just ultracaps (they can be recharged in a few seconds) but would probably be larger than a dual-18650 mod. Would never need recharging though. Would never have to replace the ultracaps either.

You would need a balancer inside the mod too because the ultracaps are typically 2.7V max and you should operate them at 2.4V or below for long life. Two in series would be perfect.

 

[zoiDman]

Howdy @suprtrkr
Sorry @DergBerg, I'm a guy.

You can use supercapacitors/ultracapacitors for truly astounding high power applications. Working with a client now on a A123+ultracapacitor combination battery pack that can easily supply over 400A for a second and then a steady 20A until the cells are discharged. All in about the size of your fist.

But, using just ultracaps, you would probably need something like the size of four 18650's for one second at 20A. I haven't done the math so don't quote me. Ultracaps are unsurpassed for short bursts, typically less than a second and often just milliseconds. But they have very, very low capacity compared to batteries.

Your 2-puff-then-recharge idea can definitely work with just ultracaps (they can be recharged in a few seconds) but would probably be larger than a dual-18650 mod. Would never need recharging though. Would never have to replace the ultracaps either.

You would need a balancer inside the mod though becuase the ultracaps are typically 2.7V max and you should operate them at 2.4V or below for long life. Two in series would be perfect.

I read a Post Once, which was Way Over My Head, where some was Explaining that a High Voltage (36v or 48v) Capacitor could be Used to Feed a Buck Circuit to reduce the Voltage down to what a Atty's voltage range needed.

I dunno if it was True or Not. Because some were saying Absolutely. And Others were saying No Way.

But what did catch my eye was the Impossibly Short charging time that a Capacitor would need. Could you Imagine charging a 5000mah comparable Capacitor in like 1 Minute?

Now that would be Cool.

 

[mauricem00]

Howdy @suprtrkr
Sorry @DergBerg, I'm a guy.

You can use supercapacitors/ultracapacitors for truly astounding high power applications. Working with a client now on a A123+ultracapacitor combination battery pack that can easily supply over 400A for a second and then a steady 20A until the cells are discharged. All in about the size of your fist.

But, using just ultracaps, you would probably need something like the size of four 18650's for one second at 20A. I haven't done the math so don't quote me. Ultracaps are unsurpassed for short bursts, typically less than a second and often just milliseconds. But they have very, very low capacity compared to batteries.

Your 2-puff-then-recharge idea can definitely work with just ultracaps (they can be recharged in a few seconds) but would probably be larger than a dual-18650 mod. Would never need recharging though. Would never have to replace the ultracaps either.

You would need a balancer inside the mod too because the ultracaps are typically 2.7V max and you should operate them at 2.4V or below for long life. Two in series would be perfect.

theres someone here who actually has training and a background in electronics? I am pleasantly surprised

 

[Mooch]

I read a Post Once, which was Way Over My Head, where some was Explaining that a High Voltage (36v or 48v) Capacitor could be Used to Feed a Buck Circuit to reduce the Voltage down to what a Atty's voltage range needed.

I dunno if it was True or Not. Because some were saying Absolutely. And Others were saying No Way.

But what did catch my eye was the Impossibly Short charging time that a Capacitor would need. Could you Imagine charging a 5000mah comparable Capacitor in like 1 Minute?

Now that would be Cool.

It's true.
You can definitely stack up some ultracapacitors (ultracaps) and then regulate them back down again as a substitute for using batteries. It would be pretty large though and only good for a puff or two. But if designed right the recharge times would be verrry short.

A ultracap/battery combo would last longer between recharges but, for an ultracap, the current levels we need are fairly low and there are a lot of batteries that are already pretty good at supplying it. :-(

 

[mauricem00]

I read a Post Once, which was Way Over My Head, where some was Explaining that a High Voltage (36v or 48v) Capacitor could be Used to Feed a Buck Circuit to reduce the Voltage down to what a Atty's voltage range needed.

I dunno if it was True or Not. Because some were saying Absolutely. And Others were saying No Way.

But what did catch my eye was the Impossibly Short charging time that a Capacitor would need. Could you Imagine charging a 5000mah comparable Capacitor in like 1 Minute?

Now that would be Cool.

capacitors have been used for a long time in transformer less power supplies to power small control circuits. the CFLs in your home use them. the inductors used in buck/boost supplies are smaller and a little more efficient

 

[DergBerg]

It's true.
You can definitely stack up some ultracapacitors (ultracaps) and then regulate them back down again as a substitute for using batteries. It would be pretty large though and only good for a puff or two. But if designed right the recharge times would be verrry short.

A ultracap/battery combo would last longer between recharges but, for an ultracap, the current levels we need are fairly low and there are a lot of batteries that are already pretty good at supplying it. :-(

Thanks for the quick response! Damn shame we can't get our needs out a small package though

 

[Mooch]

I ran the numbers...they came out better than I thought they would.

Using three ultracaps about the size of your thumb could fire a 0.2 ohm coil for at least 5 seconds before dropping to 3.5V. You'd need a regulator to hold it at either some voltage higher than 3.5V and then let the voltage drop when the voltage into the regulator was no longer high enough for it to work...or...just regulate it down to one fixed voltage (adjustable if desired) and then have the regulator turn off when the ultracap voltage got too low.



If the charger was roughly a 6" cube in size you could probably charge the mod in 5-10 seconds. You could even use a larger array of ultracaps in the charger to charge the mod. Then slowly (relatively) recharge the ultracaps in the charger with a power supply that's inside the charger with the ultracaps.

 

[KY_Rob]

This discussion has certainly taken a turn to the AWESOME!

Now, who's going to build it?

 

[zoiDman]

I ran the numbers...they came out better than I thought they would.

Using three ultracaps about the size of your thumb could fire a 0.2 ohm coil for at least 5 seconds before dropping to 3.5V. You'd need a regulator to hold it at either some voltage higher than 3.5V and then let the voltage drop when the voltage into the regulator was no longer high enough for it to work...or...just regulate it down to one fixed voltage (adjustable if desired) and then have the regulator turn off when the ultracap voltage got too low.

View attachment 473345

If the charger was roughly a 6" cube in size you could probably charge the mod in 5-10 seconds. You could even use a larger array of ultracaps in the charger to charge the mod. Then slowly (relatively) recharge the ultracaps in the charger with a power supply that's inside the charger with the ultracaps.

I wish I knew More about Electrical Theory. But I Really wish I had Saved that Thread.

Because you would have Loved it. And More importantly, Understood it.

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - Here is an Interesting read...

Researchers unveil rapid-charge aluminium battery tech | bit-tech.net

 

[suprtrkr]

I ran the numbers...they came out better than I thought they would.

Using three ultracaps about the size of your thumb could fire a 0.2 ohm coil for at least 5 seconds before dropping to 3.5V. You'd need a regulator to hold it at either some voltage higher than 3.5V and then let the voltage drop when the voltage into the regulator was no longer high enough for it to work...or...just regulate it down to one fixed voltage (adjustable if desired) and then have the regulator turn off when the ultracap voltage got too low.

View attachment 473345

If the charger was roughly a 6" cube in size you could probably charge the mod in 5-10 seconds. You could even use a larger array of ultracaps in the charger to charge the mod. Then slowly (relatively) recharge the ultracaps in the charger with a power supply that's inside the charger with the ultracaps.

Holy Bork! You mean it will work? Day-yum, whodathunk it? I can take a deep lung hit in about 4 secs. That's awesome! And "three ultracaps about the size of your thumb" is small enough to make the whole idea fly. Lol, I need a schematic

 

[WattWick]

I can certainly picture some sort of thingy plus a console - something like some fancy electric razors. Where you stick the thingie (razor in this case) in the console and it gets charged, cleaned and prepped for use. In our case the thingie (one-unit vaporizer) would be charged, cleaned and filled. Maybe with ultrasonics and a flush of PG or something.

First I believe our gear has to get past the barnstorming stages. Where we get to something we can all agree on (indisputably) is a next generation of reliable, pick-up-and-vape no-fuss vaping gear. When vaping goes from semi-hobby to just something people do. A commodization, if you will.

 

[Boden]

I'd much rather dead short a Li battery than a large enough cap to do the job.

 

[DergBerg]

I ran the numbers...they came out better than I thought they would.

Using three ultracaps about the size of your thumb could fire a 0.2 ohm coil for at least 5 seconds before dropping to 3.5V. You'd need a regulator to hold it at either some voltage higher than 3.5V and then let the voltage drop when the voltage into the regulator was no longer high enough for it to work...or...just regulate it down to one fixed voltage (adjustable if desired) and then have the regulator turn off when the ultracap voltage got too low.

View attachment 473345

If the charger was roughly a 6" cube in size you could probably charge the mod in 5-10 seconds. You could even use a larger array of ultracaps in the charger to charge the mod. Then slowly (relatively) recharge the ultracaps in the charger with a power supply that's inside the charger with the ultracaps.

Awesome! Thanks for the inspiration! I'm gonna use my day off tomorrow to learn more on this.