Any thoughts on the below article? my fellow vapers.
How much do flavors contribute to aldehyde emissions from e-cigarettes?
How much do flavors contribute to aldehyde emissions from e-cigarettes?
aldehyde in E-Juices?
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Did you read the article?
The studies contradict each other and standards were not in place.
It says that in the article.
So basically nuthin but questions.
The studies contradict each other and standards were not in place.
It says that in the article.
So basically nuthin but questions.
He sums it up in his closing sentence:
We will be able to release our preliminary results very soon and we hope we are going to clarify the situation. If there is a problem, we need to verify it and inform the scientific community and the society, especially vapers and smokers. So, be patient…
We will be able to release our preliminary results very soon and we hope we are going to clarify the situation. If there is a problem, we need to verify it and inform the scientific community and the society, especially vapers and smokers. So, be patient…
Which study is he gonna clear up?
They contradict each other.
There is obviously a huge problem with either the data or the research.
Square one. Welcome back.
If I put Three 18650 batteries in Series, connected them to an Atomizer with a .5 Ohms Coil, and then Analyze the Vapor produced for Toxins, is my Study in Error if I detect High Levels of Aldehydes?
No, No it Isn't. It is a Perfectly Valid Study of what happens under these Specific Circumstances.
Where the Break Down would occur is if I wrote a Conclusion that implied "e-Cigarettes" produce High Levels of Aldehydes based on my Findings. Because I would be Extending my Specific Findings to the Entire Class of "e-Cigarettes".
I'm not sure why there could not be Toxins produced when Flavored e-liquids are Heated? But the 1st Question I would ask when considering a Study would be were the Testing Protocols used reflective of what I use and the Way I use an e-Cigarette?
If they Aren't, then the Study can still be Valid, but it would be Non-Applicable to the Vapor I am Inhaling into my Lungs.
If the Study Protocols are, then one would want to Consider the Risk/Benefit of using such an e-Liquid under those Conditions.
No, No it Isn't. It is a Perfectly Valid Study of what happens under these Specific Circumstances.
Where the Break Down would occur is if I wrote a Conclusion that implied "e-Cigarettes" produce High Levels of Aldehydes based on my Findings. Because I would be Extending my Specific Findings to the Entire Class of "e-Cigarettes".
I'm not sure why there could not be Toxins produced when Flavored e-liquids are Heated? But the 1st Question I would ask when considering a Study would be were the Testing Protocols used reflective of what I use and the Way I use an e-Cigarette?
If they Aren't, then the Study can still be Valid, but it would be Non-Applicable to the Vapor I am Inhaling into my Lungs.
If the Study Protocols are, then one would want to Consider the Risk/Benefit of using such an e-Liquid under those Conditions.
This is spot on.
Good post.
Summary:
Cherrypicking data and testing protocols can skew the conclusions of technically valid studies.
To accept the conclusion of a study ptotocols and all data sets used must be examined.
1. Can you prove your statement?
2. Temperature of coil legs (and hotspots) can easily be higher than 1100 degrees even with temperature control. So, some decomposition not only of flavors but of VG can occur. Hope it's a minor contamination, but I would not dismiss articles as this one without some thought.
Research is definitely needed, but research by vapers (those who understand a process) for vapers. Research which, for example, can tell us if a coil leg can produce measurable amounts of unwanted chemicals.
Unfortunately I do not expect to see such research in near (?) future. Big Pharmf/government are financing only research that shows only than vaping is terribly harmful. Big Vape will finance only research that shows that vaping is incredibly harmless. It's like "research" on global warming. Political/financial interests prevail, truth is not relevant.
I agree. It's a shame too because we need solid studies to at least know how safe it is or isn't. Most of what I read look like scare tactics, murky articles, implying that it isn't safe without any real data to back that up.
Adding up all the combinations you would need to test makes it difficult to assure every one is safe. Think of the variables involved from wire metal, wick used, factory coils, home built coils, power applied, and then throw in tens of thousands of varying juices with different amounts of nic, VG, PG and all those flavors. It really does become an impossible task to establish whether every single setup is safe or not. The best you could hope for would be testing some representative builds and juices to establish their safety, then monitor the marketplace for signs of specific adverse reactions that could possibly be attributed to that very specific event. Even that is far from perfect, as isolated reactions make reproducible data problematic to assemble.
Bottom line is you can never guarantee safety across the entire vape market as the millions of possible combinations prevents collection of statistically reliable data.
Bottom line is you can never guarantee safety across the entire vape market as the millions of possible combinations prevents collection of statistically reliable data.
?
I you fire your coil without wick it will reach (without cooling by liquid) temperatures of 1500-2200F easily.
Honestly the best place to start would be with using only kanthal and then do 100% VG with average nic levels (6mg?) to 100% PG, do 50/50 then 70/30 30/70 all unflavored. From there one should move on to single flavor tests keeping in mind what the community has learned about safe flavors and unsafe. Nothing worse than seeing them use a bright purple diketone infused juice which most people would avoid. Start with the base elements most commonly used. I would also suggest these people use different attys. the ego tanks, rta's and then rda's all keeping what should be safe as far as not overheating the coil, not letting wick be dry, at least in order to perform a proper control test. Afterwards sure why not over wattage the coil, let it go dry and find your studies, but for the love of god at least inform people exactly what is being tested and how. I think i have only ever read one study that comes close to properly informing people even then i believe that study went specifically after juices that had diketones in it....
And this is why if the current deeming regs stand and PMTAs are the route to approval only a few closed systems will ever be available on the market. It is simply not cost effective to test all configurations under all circumstances across all devices.
Cherry pickers galore. They did the same thing when it was discovered using an Ego? (I forget the exact tank) at 5v produced marked increases in aldehyde. Then again, that tiny tank at 5v was downright uncomfortable to vape.
edit: here's the video. Apologies for language.
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edit: here's the video. Apologies for language.
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I don't know why they never seem to be smart enough to follow the protocol you suggest. I believe these are smart people but ignorant about vaping.
No clue. it would surely help make most of the other 90000000 variables a bit obsolete. They could they say that vaping flavorless at a temperature that doesnt burn state what temp that is ohms volt wattage w/e and what their outcomes were instead of saying well we took 100 custard flavors (prior to having safe custard flavoring additives) and we found omg results. Just horse crud if you ask me. if i had the equipment that is where i would start. Agendas driving results isnt the way that is for sure!
Then there's another, if not even most important variable. Who is paying for the study to be done? It's not like there are a bunch of volunteers with access to the appropriate testing equipment to do this stuff. And study designs and protocols are typically clearly laid out before funding is granted, so it will depend on who is footing the bill as to how a study is laid out, frequently with an expectation of the results driving the party funding the work. Which of course means conflicts of interest are frequent when testing protocols are created.
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