All Flavoring Manufacturers: An Open Discussion

[AndriaD]

So FA Apple Pie is like taking their regular apple and adding it to their cookie. Not bad at all, but missing some of the other apple pie elements. It sure as hell works though for the apple pie base, it'll just need complementary elements. INW Biscuit and FA Cookie are quite close, but it really depends on the recipe as to which would work best. FA Cookie is a bit too strong even in low percentages and can color a recipe too much, where biscuit will stay in its place and shape the recipe without jumping out at you. My issue with FA Cookie is that if it's too low, it kinda vanishes, but when you taste it you really taste it.

Gurrrrl, go ahead and get yo' Biscuit already.

I will, when BCV gets it back in stock; I'm really not up for the long wait or high shipping costs of ordering it from Europe -- BCV is in NC, practically my back yard! They seem to get back in stock on items pretty quickly -- the day last week that I checked Biscuit, they were also out of DX Bavarian Cream, but when I made my order on the 30th, the DX BC was back -- so it shouldn't take too long.

I've got some of the complementary elements: butter, brown sugar, cinnamon, so I may be able to "fill in around the edges." I've been "doctoring" like that in cooking for donkey's years!

Andria

 

[smelly]

Check out nude nicotine Apple pie, it's fairly strong too. I find combining it with others acts like a booster. They are natural flavor though so any diketones that naturally exist in an apple pie will be present. The PPM in the concentrate itself though is so low they do not disclose that there are diketones.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Check out nude nicotine Apple pie, it's fairly strong too. I find combining it with others acts like a booster. They are natural flavor though so any diketones that naturally exist in an apple pie will be present. The PPM in the concentrate itself though is so low they do not disclose that there are diketones.

A "natural apple pie" flavoring doesn't really exist as far as I can tell, so I am curious about what that means. The most it could be a flavoring made up of several other natural flavors, but I am not sure how the hell you have a natural crust flavor -- crust itself ain't exactly grown in gardens or on trees. LOL. But of course, in the flavoring industry "natural" doesn't exactly mean what it sounds like.

 

[smelly]

I work in the flavoring industry, I assure you if you literally bake an apple pie you can do an extraction and create an essence to be used as a flavoring. Of course this means that any diacetyl (that stuff is in butter right?) or whatever else is in the apple pie naturally will exist in the essence. I suppose you could further refine it via chromatagraphy or some other procedure that is over my head to remove what molecules you didn't want but I'm pretty sure Nude just does the extraction and doesn't remove any molecules, if anything they might add more molecules (artificial) to really boost it if they had to.

Oh PS - let's assume the apple pie we started with was made from all natural ingredients, no preservatives or whatever, but either way when I say Apple pie I mean a natural Apple pie, like a real one that exists in the natural world

 

[Mr.Mann]

I work in the flavoring industry, I assure you if you literally bake and apple pie you can do an extraction and create an essence to be used as a flavoring. Of course this means that any diacetyl or whatever else is in the apple pie naturally will exist in the essence. I suppose you could further refine it via chromatagraphy or some other procedure that is over my head to remove what molecules you didn't want but I'm pretty sure Nude just does the extraction and doesn't remove any molecules, if anything they might add more molecules (artificial) to really boost it if they had to.

I guess I didn't realize that. But even still, wouldn't there likely be a lot of diketones in most desserts that are baked, and surely in an apple pie? So saying that it would only have what is native to an apple pie isn't really saying anything as there is no actual apple pie, i.e., a "natural apple pie" -- just someone's recipe which could include any amount of anything. Cause in the end, what that would be saying is that I can make a "natural twinkie flavoring" if I just extract from a twinkie. Wow. Now that is making me smile. haha

It does get tricky with wording and things like this.

 

[chargingcharlie]

I work in the flavoring industry, I assure you if you literally bake an apple pie you can do an extraction and create an essence to be used as a flavoring. Of course this means that any diacetyl (that stuff is in butter right?) or whatever else is in the apple pie naturally will exist in the essence. I suppose you could further refine it via chromatagraphy or some other procedure that is over my head to remove what molecules you didn't want but I'm pretty sure Nude just does the extraction and doesn't remove any molecules, if anything they might add more molecules (artificial) to really boost it if they had to.

Oh PS - let's assume the apple pie we started with was made from all natural ingredients, no preservatives or whatever, but either way when I say Apple pie I mean a natural Apple pie, like a real one that exists in the natural world

I don't think Jake is baking apple pies to extract the essence, though, do you? If he is, then I want a slice with my next order!


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[smelly]

Call him and ask him. I know when I talked to him about banana cream pie that's what he said they did. Though I have to imagine it's prolly more like, they make the components, not necessarily in the shape of a banana cream pie and then proceed with extraction.

If it exists in the universe is it natural? Now we're getting into some weird ....e. There isn't much that separates a natural molecule from an artificial one. The molecules I like to think about are the ones that exist nowhere naturally, the purely man made ones - now those are weird.

But anyway, maybe they do clean up the extract and remove some ketones or maybe realistically the PPM of diacetyl in an apple pie is fairly lower or lower than you'd think. People don't get popcorn lung when baking apple pies after all

But really I don't know about it. All I know is their flavor come from the named food. I don't work there so I can't really offer more than that.

PS - and the flavor is strong and I have no beef with diketones so I enjoy them

 

[Mr.Mann]

Call him and ask him. I know when I talked to him about banana cream pie that's what he said they did. Though I have to imagine it's prolly more like, they make the components, not necessarily in the shape of a banana cream pie and then proceed with extraction.

If it exists in the universe is it natural? Now we're getting into some weird ....e. There isn't much that separates a natural molecule from an artificial one. The molecules I like to think about are the ones that exist nowhere naturally, the purely man made ones - now those are weird.

But anyway, maybe they do clean up the extract and remove some ketones or maybe realistically the PPM of diacetyl in an apple pie is fairly lower or lower than you'd think. People don't get popcorn lung when baking apple pies after all

But really I don't know about it. All I know is their flavor come from the named food. I don't work there so I can't really offer more than that.

PS - and the flavor is strong and I have no beef with diketones so I enjoy them

I remember having that same discussion while getting lit up at a bar. I figured anything here on earth was essentially "natural", but it's the implications and the inferences that companies are playing slick with (IMO).

And no, no popcorn lung from apple pie, but "natural" artificial butter flavoring caused it. . Okay, sorry to derail my own thread.

 

[chargingcharlie]

Call him and ask him. I know when I talked to him about banana cream pie that's what he said they did. Though I have to imagine it's prolly more like, they make the components, not necessarily in the shape of a banana cream pie and then proceed with extraction.

If it exists in the universe is it natural? Now we're getting into some weird ....e. There isn't much that separates a natural molecule from an artificial one. The molecules I like to think about are the ones that exist nowhere naturally, the purely man made ones - now those are weird.

But anyway, maybe they do clean up the extract and remove some ketones or maybe realistically the PPM of diacetyl in an apple pie is fairly lower or lower than you'd think. People don't get popcorn lung when baking apple pies after all

But really I don't know about it. All I know is their flavor come from the named food. I don't work there so I can't really offer more than that.

PS - and the flavor is strong and I have no beef with diketones so I enjoy them

I haven't tried once flavor concentrate from NudeNicotine that I haven't liked. Their Ooples & Boonoonoos flavor is one of my favorites.


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[smelly]

Mann, word and Charlie, me either. Well, maybe that patchouli vanilla, ha!

PS - my next batch of Cap flavors should be here Monday, sweet! I'm looking forward to trying the double watermelon.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Mann, word and Charlie, me either. Well, maybe that patchouli vanilla, ha!

PS - my next batch of Cap flavors should be here Monday, sweet! I'm looking forward to trying the double watermelon.

Speaking of Capella, I really like some of their Sweet fruits (like Sweet Tangerine, Sweet Mango, etc.). Those are some tasty fruit flavors. Ordering more soon.

 

[smelly]

Oh! I'm hooked on that sweet mango. I had a mango mix using 4 different suppliers... Over time I have phased them all out and now the recipe only calls for Capella sweet mango

 

[Mr.Mann]

Oh! I'm hooked on that sweet mango. I had a mango mix using 4 different suppliers... Over time I have phased them all out and now the recipe only calls for Capella sweet mango

Yup. That Sweet Mango is the whip, but I tell you, it is one strong flavor by Capella standards. You don't need a lot of that to really Mangofy a recipe.

 

[Jimi D.]

I've begun Molinberry testing. This Peach Nectar is impressing me big time. Performance and taste.

 

[smelly]

JimiD, another Fla boy, how's that beautiful water treating you? I like how Florida humidity makes for giant clouds

 

[Mr.Mann]

Preliminary results for my Apple Pie with Fuji is that the Fuji is not so good (though the taste is fine). The Fuji is such an amazing flavor but, so far, it's the wrong apple for this type of flavor. I think it's too vibrant to take on a baked quality. I only used the Fuji at 1%. The Fuji Apple, when I've tired to use it in these type of baked desserts, sorta sits by itself as opposed to blending. Maybe steeping will help it, but I kinda don't mix to steep, I mix to vape -- steeping is just something that happens due to having an excess. I might try to really drop the Fuji, but too much less and it'll disappear.

I did a quick, low flavor-saturation sketch mix of:

1% Fuji Apple (FA)
.5% Apple Pie (FA)
.5 Cinnamon Ceylon (FA)
1% French Vanilla (TFA) -- I believe this is a DX; it sure as hell tastes like it (meaning it's missing that fatty note.)

 

[Jimi D.]

Preliminary results for my Apple Pie with Fuji is that the Fuji is not so good (though the taste is fine). The Fuji is such an amazing flavor but, so far, it's the wrong apple for this type of flavor. I think it's too vibrant to take on a baked quality. I only used the Fuji at 1%. The Fuji Apple, when I've tired to use it in these type of baked desserts, sorta sits by itself as opposed to blending. Maybe steeping will help it, but I kinda don't mix to steep, I mix to vape -- steeping is just something that happens due to having an excess. I might try to really drop the Fuji, but too much less and it'll disappear.

I did a quick, low flavor-saturation sketch mix of:

1% Fuji Apple (FA)
.5% Apple Pie (FA)
.5 Cinnamon Ceylon (FA)
1% French Vanilla (TFA) -- I believe this is a DX; it sure as hell tastes like it (meaning it's missing that fatty note.)

Have you tried the Shisha Golden Apple ? That's the baked apple you need.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Have you tried the Shisha Golden Apple ? That's the baked apple you need.

Nah, INW just does so many flavors from single targets that if I tried them all I'd be forever trying INW. I get a bit exhausted when flavoring companies have too many of one thing. I will give that one a shot though, but their 2 Apple (or is it Double Apple?) concentrate tasted a touch on the medicinal side at whatever percentage, so I left INW apples alone. With those flavoring companies that take a "50 Shades" of every flavor, I end up having to go off of recommendations -- which is just what you gave me, so thanks. Baked apple, huh, nice.

 

[baseballmom]

Have you tried Capella 2 Apples? That is one that I gravitate toward for my apple element specifically for Apple Pie. I've tried many apple concentrates and FA Fuji and Capella 2 Apples are pretty much my go-to(s). Although, I have yet to try Medicine Flower's various apples -- it's just that those concentrates are so expensive it's kinda prohibitive.

Not yet, May have to try....wonder how it compares to fw double apple?

No shipping notice yet, BBmom, on those flavors I ordered from BCV (which included the Bilberry); I'd imagine they are backlogged to the eyeballs, after their long hiatus, so it may be a few days just to get a shipping notice. I've got one of their "notify me" things on the Biscuit flavor, so I suppose when I get that, I'll also order some apple pie flavoring -- and whose coconut is the best? Inawera has a couple different ones; which is the best, truest, coconut flavor? I'm totally impressed with their Shisha Strawberry, the flavor is absolutely authentic, but I dunno if they have a Shisha version of coconut.

I did get my shipping notice on the mothersmilkwta, which really surprised me; since it's 2-day priority, I expect I may have it tomorrow.

Andria

Yeah I bet BCV is busy and have some catch up to do. I requested e-mail alert for biscuit too....we are waiting patiently together...also alert for a couple other oos too, please post your Shisha blueberry opinions if you don't mind sharing.

Check out nude nicotine Apple pie, it's fairly strong too. I find combining it with others acts like a booster. They are natural flavor though so any diketones that naturally exist in an apple pie will be present. The PPM in the concentrate itself though is so low they do not disclose that there are diketones.

Mmmm another one!!!! Thank you

Have you tried the Shisha Golden Apple ? That's the baked apple you need.

Sounds good too, most of the ones I have are a more crisp/fresh type...very good but...not the baked type apple flavor


On another note, I agree cap sweet mango is wonderful, I haven't tried any others though to compare/contrast

 

[AndriaD]

Yeah I bet BCV is busy and have some catch up to do. I requested e-mail alert for biscuit too....we are waiting patiently together...also alert for a couple other oos too, please post your Shisha blueberry opinions if you don't mind sharing.

I will -- and I actually got the shipping notice a little while ago, which surprised me. Of course USPS is dillydallying around, which doesn't surprise me in the least.

Andria