All these threads regarding safety and regulations, and my ranting

[av187]

How about we just post the "dangers" as we go, and whether we want to continue vaping or not should be left to the individual. I cant stand people here thinking that their way is the only way to go. I am pretty sure that if a major producer of e liquids came out and said we put dog piss in our mix, a lot of you out there would still vape it.

Cigarettes have no positive effect (unless used properly, jk), except for the temporary goodness that they give. But we have all smoked them, and knew of the consequences. It was our choices to make, and we decided, nobody forced us.

If you like buttery flavors, great, get a butter only flavored juice and vape on (actually sounds good for breakfast, with som toast and tea). If you are scared of everything that isnt grown from the earth, or is 100% proven, then dont vape. If you simply dont care about anything but staying from cigarettes, thats great too.

Me personally, I smoked for years, vaped for a few months, went back to analogs, then vaped again, then 6 more months of analogs, then quit cold turkey. Now I am 6 months without 1 cigarette, no vaping, and I stay away from 2nd hand smoke. But recently I have been craving the addiction, and my brain is literally itching. So what do I do with all the warnings out there? Instead of smoking analogs, I got me a free eGo set, some 0mg juice with minimal ingredients, and am trying to fight the monkey off my back again.

I am convinced that some of you out there actually do not care about your own health. A lot of you say you stopped smoking as a result of the health hazards, but if vaping was proven to be bad for you, you would still vape?

In my opinion, vaporizers are not toys but are treated like them. If you dont need it anymore, then stop using it. Try not using it for as long as you can to help yourself quit, and if you fail, try again.

I mean if they made an analog that tasted like American Spirits that only had 1/10th of the evil that regular analogs have, I still wouldn't smoke them. I have always been fit on the outside, worked out, lifted weights, ate healthy, but still couldnt breath when sleeping, and thats not good. I know what quitting has done for me, and I can only thank myself for the success.


I have a question.

If it was 100% proven that vaping is bad for your health, would you quit vaping?

I would.


This year alone, From January 2010 - September 2010, my lungs have collapsed on me about 6 times, and they didnt go back to normal for at least 2-3 weeks. It sucked, imagine only being able to breath at 10% capacity. Walking made me run out of breath, and I wouldnt be able to breath to catch my breath.

Drinking destroyed my liver and kidneys to the point that they hurt randomly. So I quit drinking, heavily. Now I drink maybe once a month, and only a few drinks.



who has a better drip tip, nhaler, or super T? my brain is perfectectly fine, lol


edit: Are there any non smokers who started vaping? If your too embarrassed to say so its ok.

 

[maxy007]

Firstly good for you for quiting this time...

However, it seems that you still "need" something after all this time. Be it vaping or analogues you're going to do it aren't you?
We know darn well that smoking is bad for us but as you know we still did it before we found vaping. So to answer your question would I still Vape if it was proven to be bad for me.. HELL YES!!!

Smoking is bad I get that but vaping tastes better and can be cheaper if you pull your head in and don't buy everything you see. Toss up between the lesser of two evils and vaping wins for me.

People treat it like a hobby and the PV's like toys because well you can.. sure it may be an addiction but why not take some enjoyment out of a really horrible addiction and if that means blinging your PV or finding the juice that suits you then why not??

Maxy

 

[av187]

I didn't ask for a comparison of "2 evils". Its not Vaping vs Smoking. I am asking if people genuinely care for their health. You answered no, in a longer way.

I am going to vape until I feel I can go without it again, which will be a few weeksor months. But I will quit again. At least it is not analogs this time.


All we can do is hope that when proper tests are conducted, and we know all the facts and have definitive answers, all the results will lead us to the conclusion that vaping is NOT bad for you.


Don't get me wrong, I have relatives who have lived past 90, some past 100, smoking 1-2 packs a day. One relative smoked till she was 114. But they are all on my moms side of the family. My dads side blessed us all with the promise that we are all going to get cancer and/or another chronic disease.

 

[FreakyStylie]

I am convinced that some of you out there actually do not care about your own health. A lot of you say you stopped smoking as a result of the health hazards, but if vaping was proven to be bad for you, you would still vape?

I have an addictive personality and have tried to quit smoking several times. For months at a time at the longest. 7 days this time and less problems, but I am still vaping. Lungs were intended to inhale and exhale air, anything in addition is not normal. So far vaping seems to be a lesser evil - won't be setting the house on fire, won't be inhaling tar or carcinogens - will still be getting nicotine which isn't a health aid.

If it was 100% proven that vaping is bad for your health, would you quit vaping?

100% proven to be bad(der) than smoking? Yeah, I'd quit vaping and start smoking again. I've tried it all, I'll probably never quit tobacco products entirely. That doesn't mean I wouldn't still try, it just means that I've been trying for over 20 years and have failed. I've always hated smoking, from a child who was around it, to an adult who does it.

As for the rest . . . meh. To each his own. I don't like unfair taxes, the way some people take two spots when they park, how some people put the end of a bottle inside their lips to drink, and many other things, but I've the wisdom to know some of the things I can or can't change. The things that I know I can't change, I just . . . can't.

I know, for a fact, that if I live and work near busy streets, the damage from the emissions from cars will cause me a great deal of harm to my body. What can a person do? Hell, termites cause more greenhouse emissions than gasoline engines do every day, but nobody is out to eradicate termites to save the planet . . . why? Because there is no money in it, or at least not yet anyway. All we can do, without buying an island and avoiding all the hazards, is to try to play the hands we are dealt and try to come up with the best combination of good and bad cards.

If a man spent his entire life pondering the meaning of life; on his deathbed he may, or may not, realize that he wasted his whole life by trying to understand it instead of living it.

 

[av187]

I need a DIY instruction manual to making 0mg juice.

 

[Twist]

I need a DIY instruction manual to making 0mg juice.

Take the other DIY juice guides.

Substitute Xmg VG/PG nic juice with just pure VG/PG.

Other then that just follow instructions as usual.

 

[Twist]

You can't just ask if someone would quit vaping if it turned out to be harmful without quantifying the amount of harm. His argument that even daily life involves many calculated risks that expose you to harm is valid. So lets go the fun route. I like to snowboard, ride motorcycles, and shoot guns. By your logic it doesn't seem appropriate to do any of these things if I care about my own health.

Instead of asking if I care about my health, lets assume that I do.

Now lets consider how much I care in relation to other things, like my pleasure.

Have I in the past put my pleasure before my health? Duh, I'm an ex smoker.

Will I in the future put my pleasure before my health? Yes I will!

Would I quit vaping if it turned out to be harmful? Would I eat a piece of the moon if it were made of cheese?

They aren't ever going to "prove" that vaping isn't harmful. There is a ton of data out there though, and until someone can prove it's more harmful then my coffee I'm not going to worry. I know that it's just a cleaner method of delivering a drug to me and I don't care.

 

[av187]

This was the original question, I figured I would make it strictly about vaping.

heres the original

If it was 100% proven that vaping is bad for your health, similar to analogs, would you quit vaping?

 

[Panini]

This was the original question, I figured I would make it strictly about vaping.

heres the original

If it was 100% proven that vaping is bad for your health, similar to analogs, would you quit vaping?

I found electronic cigarettes when I was looking for ways to stop smoking cigarettes. I wanted to stop because I was concerned about my health. So yes, I would think to continue vaping at that point would be kind of pointless.

That being said, I think there is a lot we can all learn as time goes on. Electronic cigarettes are a pretty new technology. I don't know that anyone can say they are perfect as is. So it would make sense to take a real look at the dangers and, if they are harmful enough, eliminate them. Hence, the discussion on safety and regulations.

 

[av187]

nice finger

 

[Automaton]

Vaping is harmful. We already know that.

Nicotine is a mild stresser on your heart. Given that some of us smoked for decades and probably have some pretty stressed out hearts, that's certainly not as good as no nicotine.

For those who are vulnerable, vaping may slightly increase the risk of respiratory infection. We know this from vaporized medications that we have studied.

So the real question, to me, is this.

Is vaping AS HARMFUL as cigarettes?

As long as I have good reasons to believe the answer is "no," I will continue to vape for as long as I need to.

At present, having looked at the research we do have so far (which isn't enough, but it's a start), I am quite convinced the answer is "no."

I take reasonable health precautions based on known risks. I.e. - I am shopping for my first mod. I am also shopping for mods with safety features, that take protected or safer-chemistry batteries, which don't need to be stacked. Because I know that if I don't, the risk of me blowing my face off increases. There is hard evidence to demonstrate this fact.

I choose not to vape Chinese juice, due to known issues with quality control not only of the grade of ingredients, but of the nicotine levels' accuracy.

Am I freaked out about diacetyl? No. Why? Because after examining the information, I don't feel there is any reason I should be.

All of these are my personal decisions. I don't feel any need to preach them to anyone else. I make my decisions knowing that vaping is not as ideal as not vaping, and that I will live with a certain degree of risk, but minimalize the risks I feel are significant.

At this point in time, I don't feel like I could comfortably stop vaping. So I live with the risks.

Now.

If vaping were found to be AS HARMFUL as cigarettes?

I'd still vape, until I got my nic low enough that I would consider stopping, however long that took. Why?

1. It's cheaper than smoking.

2. I don't feel as addicted. I never NEED to vape. I want to. I get a bit cranky if I don't. But it's not like when I smoked, where I needed it NOW.

3. I feel better than I did when I smoked.

If vaping were found MORE harmful than cigarettes?

Either way, I would immediately begin tapering down. How fast depends on what kind of harm we're talking about, and how quickly the onset can be expected. Given that we have healthy 6-year vapers, I somehow doubt I would need to be in a huge rush.

I would taper off, and use smokeless tobacco for any bad cravings I may have.

So, how concerned am I about the warnings? Depends on the warning.

I do my own homework before I decide on that. I don't take anyone's word on anything. Because most people haven't done their homework. Even if they have, everybody's wrong sometimes.

I'm even that way with my doctors. And it's a good thing, too. If I weren't, if I hadn't done my homework, I'd be missing a body organ that I didn't need to be.

I take my health seriously, while simultaneously accepting my mortality, and trying not to allow myself to be worked up by alarmists.

 

[av187]

Your post is dead on.

Everyone should mind their own business when it comes to other peoples decisions. You can give warnings and information, but let them decide what to do without the criticism. Do not try to make your way the only way, attempting to force people to do what you would do and judging them, your not Jesus.

 

[shanagan]

This was the original question, I figured I would make it strictly about vaping.

heres the original

If it was 100% proven that vaping is bad for your health, similar to analogs, would you quit vaping?

Yeah. I didn't switch to vaping because it looked cool or even because I had any idea it'd be so enjoyable. I switched because I bought the harm-reduction line. I'm 40, have 3 kids that grew up with a smoking mom and somehow they haven't picked up the habit - yet. That word has loomed over smoking my entire life. I haven't had any health problems from smoking - yet. It sure hasn't killed me yet. And for 28 years I would've said "I haven't quit, yet." But now I have. And now that I have, I'm looking at that choice as just that - a choice I made in order to keep those "yets" at bay by something I'm electing to do.

I've already decided that my worst-case scenario is nicotine gum. Because I'm just not ready to add "I vape and know it's dangerous, but at least my kids haven't picked it up, yet" to the list.

I realize death is inevitable, I'm more concerned with what I might be saddling my kids with, I guess. It's so damned nice to finally look past the smoke to see that, for whatever that's worth.

 

[shanagan]

Your post is dead on.

Everyone should mind their own business when it comes to other peoples decisions. You can give warnings and information, but let them decide what to do without the criticism. Do not try to make your way the only way, attempting to force people to do what you would do and judging them, your not Jesus.

Without getting argumentative, I just want to say that that's all any of us want - but we need to be informed to be able to make decisions. All of this "it's got to be better than smoking" and hysteria over bans or whatever just has to end. Just like you've chosen 0 nic juice to hopefully tide you over during a rough patch. If you didn't know that juice was nic-free, where's your choice? The disclosure provides the choice.

ETA: My take on regulation - if members don't want it, and vendors don't want it, where is the trade association that would self-regulate? ECITA is an example of why its imperative - they have been able to stave off the MHRA, and imo (worth the price paid to give it) they're the only example of what it would take in the US to remain under the tobacco product umbrella rather than the drug umbrella.

 

[markmcs]

Vaping is harmful. We already know that.

Nicotine is a mild stresser on your heart. Given that some of us smoked for decades and probably have some pretty stressed out hearts, that's certainly not as good as no nicotine.

For those who are vulnerable, vaping may slightly increase the risk of respiratory infection. We know this from vaporized medications that we have studied.

So the real question, to me, is this.

Is vaping AS HARMFUL as cigarettes?

As long as I have good reasons to believe the answer is "no," I will continue to vape for as long as I need to.

At present, having looked at the research we do have so far (which isn't enough, but it's a start), I am quite convinced the answer is "no."

I take reasonable health precautions based on known risks. I.e. - I am shopping for my first mod. I am also shopping for mods with safety features, that take protected or safer-chemistry batteries, which don't need to be stacked. Because I know that if I don't, the risk of me blowing my face off increases. There is hard evidence to demonstrate this fact.

I choose not to vape Chinese juice, due to known issues with quality control not only of the grade of ingredients, but of the nicotine levels' accuracy.

Am I freaked out about diacetyl? No. Why? Because after examining the information, I don't feel there is any reason I should be.

All of these are my personal decisions. I don't feel any need to preach them to anyone else. I make my decisions knowing that vaping is not as ideal as not vaping, and that I will live with a certain degree of risk, but minimalize the risks I feel are significant.

At this point in time, I don't feel like I could comfortably stop vaping. So I live with the risks.

Now.

If vaping were found to be AS HARMFUL as cigarettes?

I'd still vape, until I got my nic low enough that I would consider stopping, however long that took. Why?

1. It's cheaper than smoking.

2. I don't feel as addicted. I never NEED to vape. I want to. I get a bit cranky if I don't. But it's not like when I smoked, where I needed it NOW.

3. I feel better than I did when I smoked.

If vaping were found MORE harmful than cigarettes?

Either way, I would immediately begin tapering down. How fast depends on what kind of harm we're talking about, and how quickly the onset can be expected. Given that we have healthy 6-year vapers, I somehow doubt I would need to be in a huge rush.

I would taper off, and use smokeless tobacco for any bad cravings I may have.

So, how concerned am I about the warnings? Depends on the warning.

I do my own homework before I decide on that. I don't take anyone's word on anything. Because most people haven't done their homework. Even if they have, everybody's wrong sometimes.

I'm even that way with my doctors. And it's a good thing, too. If I weren't, if I hadn't done my homework, I'd be missing a body organ that I didn't need to be.

I take my health seriously, while simultaneously accepting my mortality, and trying not to allow myself to be worked up by alarmists.

Your post is dead on.

Everyone should mind their own business when it comes to other peoples decisions. You can give warnings and information, but let them decide what to do without the criticism. Do not try to make your way the only way, attempting to force people to do what you would do and judging them, your not Jesus.

I thank you both for your clear headed, reasonable, and mostly sane (LOL) posts!!!

AV, in answer to your original question, as someone who smoked for 30 years knowing damned well it was killing me I would have to say I would still vape it it were proven unhealthy. I would like to be a non-smoker, but that's not the case...and it's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to me doing things that aren't good for me.
I am sure that vaping is much, MUCH safer than smoking, so I am glad I discovered it. I am also an adult (mostly!) who can make my own decisions. That said, I would like to be allowed to continue vaping until such time as I decide to stop (if ever). I also don't like being force-fed!!

...Can't we all just get along?????...........LOL

 

[Edwv30]

It's amazing.... members accusing people of "forcing feeding" and "criticizing" when all we ask for is disclosure. It's really that simple. When you try to shut our concerns down or keep us quiet you become the person who is "force feeding" and "criticizing." If our posts bother you there is always the "back" button on your browser(s). You also have the freedom to read\not read our posts.

There are certain chemicals beings used in some juices that are known to be deadly when inhaled. Yes...we do not know the concentration needed to destroy lung tissue but we do not want to become the "guinea pigs" and find out . We do not want to inhale those chemicals...at any concentration....period

Suppliers need to disclose the chemicals being used in their products...actually, they should be REQUIRED to supply this information. All it's going to take is one person to become sick ...or worse. The FDA is waiting for this to happen...and it WILL happen if things continue as they are.. we just don't know when. Self regulation and disclosure are proactive measures that could help avoid this from occurring. Some suppliers are taking these steps... many refuse.

 

[Panini]

No one is trying to stop anyone from vaping. But there are people out there who would like to know what they are vaping.

 

[Matodd]

I don't know if I would stop vaping if it was proven as harmful as smoking. And yes I do care about my health. That's why I take medication everyday to try to keep me healthy and functioning. (what good it does I don't know) I choose to vape because I enjoy it. Vaping helped me kick the cigarettes to the curb I think its been like 40 days now. (GO ME)

As far as ingredients in ejuice I mostly DIY so I'm not real concerned with what is going into my juice. On second thought maybe I should be my hubs makes it for me. I understand others position on wanting to know what they are vaping. I've seen it many times on here someone tries to post something that they think is informational and might be helpful to others and all they get is attacked and the issue is never really discussed.

Okay I've rambled enough "that's all I have to say about that"

 

[Fernand]

For some people, the effects of nicotine clearly compound problems like circulatory insufficiency, but I doubt it's invariably harmful in itself. The combustion aspect of smoking is a biggie, just the carbon monoxide and lung coating for instance, so how would you even evaluate nicotine itself? To tell you honestly, between heavy flavoring and less nicotine, and less flavorings and more nicotine, I'll take the nicotine. If i'd said that before the popcorn flavoring findings, it might have seemed preposterous to many, but it's not, is it? It's hard to be perfectly safe once you're knee-deep in the swamp. What i'm driving at is that although avoiding smoking (in the first place) would have been the best move, I don't understand the OP's urgency in quitting nicotine -- that wouldn't be my prime worry at this point, if there's no angina or claudication or other sign of circulatory insufficiency. And stressing out about it isn't healthy either.

 

[Edwv30]

For some people, the effects of nicotine clearly compound problems like circulatory insufficiency, but I doubt it's invariably harmful in itself. The combustion aspect of smoking is a biggie, just the carbon monoxide and lung coating for instance, so how would you even evaluate nicotine itself? To tell you honestly, between heavy flavoring and less nicotine, and less flavorings and more nicotine, I'll take the nicotine. If i'd said that before the popcorn flavoring findings, it might have seemed preposterous to many, but it's not, is it? It's hard to be perfectly safe once you're knee-deep in the swamp. What i'm driving at is that although avoiding smoking (in the first place) would have been the best move, I don't understand the OP's urgency in quitting nicotine -- that wouldn't be my prime worry at this point, if there's no angina or claudication or other sign of circulatory insufficiency. And stressing out about it isn't healthy either.

Thank you for your response Fernand. Out of curiosity...what are your feelings about Diacetyl and it's use in PV juice?