Esmoke.net posts lab analysis of their e-liquids on their site for those who want to look at it. As far as I know, Dekang is the only other vendor to do this up to this point.
All these threads regarding safety and regulations, and my ranting
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Thanks for the info Warbdan. I have never heard of Esmoke.net but will definitely check them out. Any vendor willing to spend time and money on lab analysis deserves our business 
Not to complain, but look at the data. They are not disclosing composition of flavoring, only checking the pg and vg for things we wouldn't expect anyway. The diethylene glycol test is the only really meaningful test, and the threshold for detection is pretty high. It's better than no testing at all, but i hate to say it doesn't tell us much.
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Im sorry but with statements like this I have to wonder who the hysterical, ranting ones really are. "Paranoia" and "conspiracy"........REALLY? Now Mark, dont you think thats a tad much?
As for being hypocritical because I no longer want to die of slow poisoning,...insert logic please. I dont understand what you mean. Because people smoked they should (or else be a conspiracy theorist) lay down and vape it?
You mentioned those who are concerned should simply contact suppliers before their purchase, the funny little thing is that is EXACTLY what many are doing, and most suppliers either do not know, will not help, or simply do not reply. Its quite a tangled web. And in the case of your banner, yes it was a mess.
You dont want to see the discussion continue so why are you continuing it?
As for being hypocritical because I no longer want to die of slow poisoning,...insert logic please. I dont understand what you mean. Because people smoked they should (or else be a conspiracy theorist) lay down and vape it?
You mentioned those who are concerned should simply contact suppliers before their purchase, the funny little thing is that is EXACTLY what many are doing, and most suppliers either do not know, will not help, or simply do not reply. Its quite a tangled web. And in the case of your banner, yes it was a mess.
You dont want to see the discussion continue so why are you continuing it?
This thread is really becoming pretty silly!
There are countless "non-butter" flavored juices on the market for you to choose from. Even the most reputable eliquid vendor is right to try to protect their company, in light of the lynch mob that seems to be forming around this issue.
In the interest of self-preservation, I'm sure alternative flavorings are already being tested, despite the fact that the small percentage of diacetyl present in some flavors is most likely harmless or poses minor risk. If that weren't the case, we would already have some very sick vapers!!!!!
The risk of smoking is far greater than the risk of vaping. As data becomes available, formulas will have to change to reflect the new information, and hopefully provide us with the safest vape possible.
There will always be health issues surrounding vaping...some well founded...some not, the issue here is really whether an individual chooses to vape knowing it is most likely NOT completely safe. I know it's not, but I also know the alternative is MUCH worse. I will vape the flavors I like and if a flavor begins to affect me in a negative way, I will switch to something else.
Some here are making way too much of this!!!! Just choose your own poisons and try not create a panic. Life is too short for all this unnecessary drama!
There are countless "non-butter" flavored juices on the market for you to choose from. Even the most reputable eliquid vendor is right to try to protect their company, in light of the lynch mob that seems to be forming around this issue.
In the interest of self-preservation, I'm sure alternative flavorings are already being tested, despite the fact that the small percentage of diacetyl present in some flavors is most likely harmless or poses minor risk. If that weren't the case, we would already have some very sick vapers!!!!!
The risk of smoking is far greater than the risk of vaping. As data becomes available, formulas will have to change to reflect the new information, and hopefully provide us with the safest vape possible.
There will always be health issues surrounding vaping...some well founded...some not, the issue here is really whether an individual chooses to vape knowing it is most likely NOT completely safe. I know it's not, but I also know the alternative is MUCH worse. I will vape the flavors I like and if a flavor begins to affect me in a negative way, I will switch to something else.
Some here are making way too much of this!!!! Just choose your own poisons and try not create a panic. Life is too short for all this unnecessary drama!
Why would you assume all this is true based on absolutely no information? I can't speak for everybody, but I know for myself it took 20 years before cigarettes really started to take their toll on me. E-cigarettes were just invented in 2003, didn't make it to Europe until 2006, and the US in 2007, and it wasn't until 2008/2009 that we had flavors other than tobaccos. It took the popcorn workers a few years to show the damage of the diacetyl in high work-shift related concentration, so there has not been enough time passed to know yet what damage the butter and cream flavors have done.
And, for the record, there have been several vapers that have not fared so well, but there's usually patted on the head and told their bad reaction to vaping is a consequence of their past smoking or called a hypochondriac. As all those threads and this one have reinforced, the board membership is not very tolerant of those who dare to raise any questions about the safety of vaping as a whole. So because three whole years have gone by without you hearing of a single consequence is not really a testament to its safety, and as it gains in popularity and more and more nonsmokers start using it, when their lungs deteriorate (as has already happened to a few vaping nonsmokers), will it then be time for the community to become concerned about what they're drawing down deep into the lungs?
Mark, a lynch mob? Seriously? First you mentioned conspiracy theories (which would imply I guess that people think vendors are trying to harm us?) where no one has put forth any accusation of the sort, and now you've moved onto trying to imply we're attempting to harm someone?
Um, if in the interest of self-preservation alternative flavorings are being tested.. why would you think that's being done? Maybe because someone somewhere mentioned that this might be bad news to vape? So.. what do you think we're doing?
Go look through your banner vendor's forum for the diacetyl threads. In fact, here you go: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-i-cant-post-anywhere-else-4.html#post2054168
Then hit the back button while those of us that feel a product designed to be inhaled might need some basic disclosure in re: substances that have been linked to irreversible lung disease, with no cure. It doesn't effect you one way or another, right?
These threads would be calmer if they were left to those who are concered to talk about it. It becomes drama when others who apparently have no personal stake in the subject at hand come in and actually start the drama. Im not saying you cant post whatever, where ever you like, but you do seem like you could use a sedative. Just saying, you have a hand in what you complain about.
Also, its not just a matter of diacetyl, there are plenty of juices and flavoring without them as we well know (knowing wich is which is another matter) but most of them are replaceing it with acetyl propionyl as, again we well know. So, Im again confused by the logic you use.
Also, its not just a matter of diacetyl, there are plenty of juices and flavoring without them as we well know (knowing wich is which is another matter) but most of them are replaceing it with acetyl propionyl as, again we well know. So, Im again confused by the logic you use.
And some of us are making way too little of it. It is our money...our lungs and our life. We choose to pick as little poisons as possible, (hence our demand for disclosure). If the information we put out there causes "panic" then great. This "panic" is worth it if it saves just one life.
I saw that site a while back and wondered about them. My problem is that I dont know how to intrepret the test results. I dont know if there in any way meaningful or not. Are they showing us only whats not in the juice but not what IS in the juice?
Is it just me or does the "lynch bob" seem to be coming from the hush hush crowd? Mark did want to talk about conspiracies lol .....
I was just chatting about this earlier today. Basically, [my understanding is] they were testing for specific substances in the liquid -- and determining that the raw ingredients were present. The results don't show all of the things that are in the liquid...just that certain things aren't.
I also send them an email when I first saw their site. I asked if those tests only tell you whats not in the juice, how is that useful? Hey, Im not a chemists, Im actually kinda retarted, so I have to ask.
Yeah! Strange timing, right? Welcome!
If this is true then why the lack of communication on the issues? Why not update all of us crazy, silly, alarmists with the steps that are being taken? Why the closed threads?
Aside from that, the key wording you chose is most likely. Not only are you making giant assumptions, but theres also clearly no evidence to prove you right. If youve seen some type of documentation that does, please share it with us. I genuinely mean that. Also, theres really no such thing as a minor risk. Either it does pose a risk or it doesnt. Bronchiolitis obliterans is really not something you can kind of get.
Please, before you accuse us of being alarmists, at least do your due diligence and read through some of the discussion, or at least studies on the substance. It seems like you havent, so refer to SimpleSins previous post for a summary of the outcomes and timelines. The workers took a few years to develop obvious symptoms (though they may have had shortness of breath, mild symptoms, or misdiagnosis prior to that.) The consumers who suffered took even longer -- 10, even 16 years. To me, that suggests risk even at exposure to lower concentrations over time. When you think about how some of us vape throughout the day, thats just too close for comfort.
I have done due diligence...I have read the ALARMIST threads, I have done some research about "popcorn lung" and other affects of diacetyl and acetoin and I also know that the concentrations are much higher in a manufacturing setting where EVERY BREATH TAKEN is laced with free floating diacetyl compounds.
You say there is no such thing as a minor risk? When you get in your car, you take a risk...is that the same risk level as you would take by walking across a highway blindfolded??? I doubt it! Of course there are different risk levels in everything. Maybe you should just calm down a bit and put down your vape...because there will always be some health risk, no matter how much transparency exists. your L-ion battery could explode and damage that pretty face of yours....but here you are still vaping!!!! Isn't the risk of that happening the same as getting bronchiolitis obliterans?? since, as you said, ALL RISKS ARE EQUAL
I am calm. Are you?
Let me try to explain this a bit better. The workers were exposed to higher concentrations for 8-hour periods. (Not 24 hours every day, seven days every week.) They showed respiratory damage after one - five years. So if you lower the concentration, does the risk go away or become minor? I doubt it. Consumers were showing damage after 10 years, or even 16 years. To me, that suggests the risk of developing bronchiolitis obliterans is still there it just takes more time. Does that make sense?
I didnt say all risks were the same. Im saying that there is no minor risk associated with inhaling diacetyl. Though I'll add "at this time" if that's a more acceptable way of saying so. We dont know a safe level to inhale and the risk is severe lung damage to the point of needing a lung transplant. The damage doesnt go away. That simply doesnt seem minor to me.
I know this thread has been totally gone off topic, but in case the OP is still out there:
"Me personally, I smoked for years, vaped for a few months, went back to analogs, then vaped again, then 6 more months of analogs, then quit cold turkey. Now I am 6 months without 1 cigarette, no vaping, and I stay away from 2nd hand smoke. But recently I have been craving the addiction, and my brain is literally itching. So what do I do with all the warnings out there? Instead of smoking analogs, I got me a free eGo set, some 0mg juice with minimal ingredients, and am trying to fight the monkey off my back again."
Could be that vaping with 0% mg of nic juice may not be the way to go?
I actually started at 18-24mg and have increased it to 30mg for the last few orders I made and I feel better (no nic fits, etc.). Perhaps, if you were to put nic in your juice, it would help you better to say adios to the analogs for good. Then if you feel like it, you can always go down in nic content, gradually.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread....
"Me personally, I smoked for years, vaped for a few months, went back to analogs, then vaped again, then 6 more months of analogs, then quit cold turkey. Now I am 6 months without 1 cigarette, no vaping, and I stay away from 2nd hand smoke. But recently I have been craving the addiction, and my brain is literally itching. So what do I do with all the warnings out there? Instead of smoking analogs, I got me a free eGo set, some 0mg juice with minimal ingredients, and am trying to fight the monkey off my back again."
Could be that vaping with 0% mg of nic juice may not be the way to go?
I actually started at 18-24mg and have increased it to 30mg for the last few orders I made and I feel better (no nic fits, etc.). Perhaps, if you were to put nic in your juice, it would help you better to say adios to the analogs for good. Then if you feel like it, you can always go down in nic content, gradually.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread....
It was actually early yesterday and earlier today(and in quite specific detail and depth, in a totally different venue). Boy isn't that a coincidence that it should have been brought up all of a sudden. Wow, somebody here must be truly psychic.
Wow, way to assert your dominance. You must be right then, Im sold.
In reference to the eliquid testing and/or improvment that is coming that you and others have meantioned, although slowely,... I have to say thats not a valid argument unless you can provide some proof. Untill then, lets leave that "trust me" element out of it.
If you are willing to share what information you have or claim to have, please by all means do share!
Mark, you say you've done due diligence. Do you think wanting to know whether any of 3 compounds you'd like to avoid are in the e-liquid you buy is like worrying about your battery exploding?
Let's just say for a second you have some comprehension of the issues. Are we disturbing you by discussing them? Does it make sense for you to come tell us how we should think and act? Do you usually talk to everybody per their "pretty face", or just women?
Let's just say for a second you have some comprehension of the issues. Are we disturbing you by discussing them? Does it make sense for you to come tell us how we should think and act? Do you usually talk to everybody per their "pretty face", or just women?
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