Almost 7 Weeks Vaping, Sleep/Anxiety/Depression Issues

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larkcarol

Full Member
Oct 29, 2014
5
14
North Carolina
Hey guys,

I've been lurking here for awhile and wanted to talk to some experienced folks who've switched from cigarettes to vaping who might be able to give some advice. Otherwise I'll probably have to check myself in to a mental hospital!

My husband and I quit smoking on 9/13/14. FWIW, he decided to quit due to a severe chest cold with shortness of breath that scared him. I quit to be supportive. I am 35, smoked regularly for 14 years, occasional smoker for about 4 years before that (back to age 17). I had no smoker's issues at the time I quit - I regularly run and engage in other hard cardio exercise, my blood pressure was perfect, perfect blood work, etc. Since switching to vaping, I've yet to see any lung clearing (hacking up brown gunk and whatnot that I hear about).

I smoked two packs a day of Camel Blue (formerly known as Camel Lights). I think what really had me hooked was the mental benefits. I have been diagnosed in the past with anxiety and depression and have been treated for both in the past though not for a few years now. I was already having a serious relapse of both before quitting which I was trying my best to manage with nootropics - mostly amino acids and some vitamins/minerals plus regular exercise and good sleep hygiene. I was having a lot of success with the stuff I tried. But that has all gone away.


The first week, I couldn't get enough sleep. Went to 24 mg juice from two packs a day and that was that. I felt vaguely crappy and tired but it wasn't horrible. On day 7 exactly, I began waking up between 3am and 6am and unable to go back to sleep. Instead, it is laying in bed trying to fall back asleep because I'm exhausted but my mind won't let me and it's due to horrible intrusive thoughts. Once I get up, I'm exhausted and I usually have crying spells off and on until early afternoon. Sometime after lunch, I start to feel a little better. Before quitting/starting vaping it was always FALLING asleep that was my issue. That is no longer a problem. The new problem is staying asleep.

So, I have tried everything I can think of - I lowered the nicotine after 2 weeks to 12 mg then to 3 mg a few weeks later. I read that caffeine tolerance can change to I'm down to 1 cup of coffee a day, sometimes only a half (previously I drank 3-4 cups a day). I quit all supplements that were to help with depression in case they were too stimulating for my mind and am taking, it seems like, handfuls of the supplements meant to aid with anxiety. I'm exercising an hour or more a day to try to get myself extra exhausted. But in addition to the crying spells, the anxiety attacks, the early waking, and what I call 'nostalgia attacks' ("Oh look, its a beautiful day! Remember that beautiful day a few years ago, much like this one, but which can't EVER HAPPEN AGAIN?? Let's cry for 2 hours about how that day can never happen again, just because it's in the past, not because anyone died or anything like that...."), I seem to hear/see things from time to time that aren't there. Perhaps this is a side effect of my new type of insomnia. Or maybe the cigarettes were a special kind of self-medication for me and were masking something else. I don't know.


Like I said before, I was anxious and depressed as a smoker too, just not this bad. It could all be a coincidence that this started exactly a week after quitting cigarettes and starting vaping, but it seems like it can't be. I need it to stop - it's seriously impacting my job performance and everything else. Anyone have any words of encouragement or suggestions?
 

bacc.vap

Vaping Master
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Hello and welcome. You got a whole lot going on there, not so sure anyone here is really qualified to give you the kind of advice you need, other than the usual cut down your nic levels and maybe use a low or no nic liquid for a few hours before going to sleep. Hope you can figure things out. I will say I never had the lung clearing brown gunk thing you hear about, so I wouldn't be to concerned about that.
 

Zurd

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Feb 10, 2010
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I didn't cough "brown gunk" either when I stopped smoking, some people do, some people like us don't.

Nicotine can help against anxiety, it's not a bad ingredient:
FAQ: Nicotine (tobaccoharmreduction.org)

Try some CalmAid, helps to reduce anxiety, it's not that expensive, there's no side-effects, it's made from lavender and it's available on Amazon and other sites too. Everything else you tried is quite good. If you go see a doctor, he will probably hook you up on lorazepam, which might not be such a bad thing with everything you're going through at the moment.
 

pamdis

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Jun 11, 2013
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I was hit with anxiety after about six weeks after switching. I too thought I was going to lose my mind. Was resigned to returning to smoking until I found out about WTA liquids. Whole Tobacco Alkaloids. Nicotine is only one alkaloid in tobacco, and some of us may need these others.

Here is some background:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/4524-whole-tobacco-alkaloids-bit-history.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dvap/4798-wta-what-what-isnt.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...bacco-alkaloid-wta-faq-info-aroma-ejuice.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/230570-wta-e-liquid-issues.html

There are currently two companies that make it:
WholeCig
Whole Tobacco Alkaloid WTA Eliquid Ejuice

I get mine from wholecig. After I got it, I vaped it exclusively for a week until I felt better. Now I use about 1ml a day, and the rest of the day use regular eliquids, and for me it is enough. Some people just put a few drops into every tank of regular eliquid, others only vape WTA.

You could also check into using SNUS.
 

Bored2Tears

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Sep 26, 2014
713
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Western South Dakota
larkcarol,

The only reason I'm responding is to offer some support since I quit smoking about 8 weeks ago and can relate to some of your story. I definitely went through phases of serious irritability and it was affecting my life. I'm not qualified to comment on your symptoms being normal or abnormal, but if it's that serious for you....I encourage you to talk to your doctor.

I became pretty much of a tyrant about a week ago around my family....and decided it was not worth it. As a result, I smoked a pack of cigarettes....and it brought me back to some sense of normalcy. For me, it was worth it. I am now back to strictly vaping....and normal emotional state.

There could be a lot of other things going on here that you should check out. From a non-professional, non-medical, and non-counseling point of view....I just want to be one who says that quitting smoking is great, but if the desired results aren't there and the side effects are worse... then I personally found smoking a few cigarettes got me somewhat back to normalcy. By doing that, I realized how horrible they tasted to me , and confirmed that yes I was truly committed to quitting. It calmed me back down.

I could very well go back to the irritability I was feeling a week ago. That remains to be seen....but I have freedom of choice. I can smoke or vape.
 

aznnp77

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Aug 29, 2014
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Sorry I can't be of much help other then support.

I commend you for switching to vaping to support your husband. I imagine it would be more difficult for you because you weren't having the health problems that your husband did, and weren't necessarily ready to make the switch just for you. That's the key for anyone switching, with depression issues or not.

The only thing I can think of is that you're switching too many things right now. That's a big high low going from high 24mg to 3mg like that. I actually went from being a tea drinker only and being sleepy all the time to 1-2 cups a day of coffee again after I switched to vaping. Perhaps the caffeine withdrawal is complicating things with quitting smoking as well.

Also, maybe the 24mg was too high for you. As a 2 pack a day smoker, I imagine that you vape quite often to keep that hand to mouth action going throughout the day constantly. If I vape a lot at night, sometimes I have trouble sleeping. That nicotine will keep you up just like caffeine will. Vaping 12mg in my computer chair constantly at home makes me jittery at times. I was only a half a pack a day smoker though.

You're not feining for cigarettes are you? When I go outside, I avoid the usual smokers crowd. The cigarettes smell good and mess with my head a little bit. I just find a quiet corner by myself.
 
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k0k0s

Full Member
Oct 28, 2014
10
7
Gulf
Hi and welcome.

I won't go into details about the psychological part behind all this... Been there myself in the past. But this is something no-one in here can address, it's just between you and a doctor/therapist.

On the e-cig part though, you have to understand that a low nicotine liquid is defined as "low" only in context. A 3mg liquid is defined as "low nicotine" only if you vape about 3ml of it each day , assuming you are actually inhaling 100% of the included nicotine. Depending on your coil and wick setup, it's usually 50-80% of that. So , if you vape for example 15ml of a 3mg juice per day, then you're in the neighborhood of 2-packs-camel-lights per day. The 24mg juice you started with? Just 2 ml of that juice -the quantity one average atomizer tank can hold- is about the same nicotine intake you were getting through the camels! In other words, if you're chain-vaping, even on a 6 or 3mg liquid, you're actually getting more nicotine than with the Camels per day!

Like others suggested, it would be best if you discussed the matter with a doctor.
 

M4rtin

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Sep 15, 2014
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Wow I am really sorry to hear you are having such a difficult time! I am no Doctor and not exactly sure what is happening to you and I really suggest you go see your family physician. I smoked for 28 years and before I switched to vaping was at almost 2 packs a day. I only switched to exclusively vaping 7 weeks ago but started vaping a week before that.

I have read and experienced that nicotine has positive effects in regards to people with depression, anxiety, alzheimers and ADHD.

If you put Nicotine and depression in your search engine there are a ton of articles and studies.

I also would not go by how much nicotine level there is in your juice, because your body could absorb the nicotine differently then someone else. Depends on your vaping style, like watts, direct lung hits, mouth to lung through nose etccc... Your body will tell you, nicotine effects differently people different ways. We are not all made the same.

Your body might be reacting to nicotine withdrawal. Again I am not a medical professional, I just know from my own experience and from those of my friends. I know for me personally my anxiety and depression went down slightly when I switched to vaping. I am actually vaping between 350 to 500 puffs per day. For me it is keeping me off the analogs and I really really enjoyed smoking. I stopped because shortness of breath, gums started to recede, having to get my teeth cleaned every four months because of the tar and smelling like an ashtray. I know superficial.

I started at 18 mg of nic and am only now ordering juices with 12 mg in Nic because I am starting to break out with painful red pimples. Not sure if its the pg/vg or the nic. I use 50/50 PG/VG, so I am going to step down in nic and see if that helps. If not, I will go to a higher vg over pg juice at 12 mg of nic. Just like when we started to smoke, we did not always like a certain brand or strength and switched. I have found that just like smoking, vaping is trial and error as well. You have to find what will work for you. Listen to your body!

I think with anything, your body always needs to adjust to changes. Don't give up on yourself or trying to quit the analogs. I really suggest you go talk to your physician and maybe vape higher nicotine juices. Try some juices that are higher in nicotine, some people smoke and vape.

But Please see a doctor!!!! There is no need for you to be this miserable, your mental health and quality life is more important right now.
 
Hi there... Sorry you're having so much trouble. I'm not a doctor but here's an opinion... If you smoked 2 packs a day for 14 years steady, you are making some pretty quick and radical changes. If I were you, I would settle on something like an 18mg eliquid and stay there for quite awhile. It's taken me 10 months, and I'm at 6mg now and I'm thinking I need to go back up a little. Since nicotine wasn't anywhere near the most dangerous chemical in a cigarette, and doctors don't hesitate prescribing smoking cessation solutions that contain nicotine, I'd assume you would be ok vaping often enough to equal 2 packs a day. Which would be often! As far as the depression and anxiety go, I've stuggled with that my entire life, but I don't believe it got worse when I quit. I would definitely see a doctor. And since you're a vaper now, I'd choose a doctor who doesn't have a lot of negativity towards vaping. So, maybe a younger physician? Good luck and hang in there. Things are gonna get better.
 

FallenRawToast

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Mar 30, 2014
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I am no doctor, and if things are as bad as you say, you might want to go see one.

That said, when I first read your subject line, I figured it was just going to be a case of someone over nic'ing themselves, but reading further and further into your OP, i saw that you had already done the reading and tried to adjust for that.

Definetly give the WTA route a look. I have no experience with them, but I have read enough stuff from people who did go that route to see it took care of a lot of their "issues"

One thing I will throw at you though, is that maybe you arent vaping "efficently" to get the nic into you, and that you arent absorbing enough nicotine, and things have just gotten worse as you went down in nic levels. Anecdotally, I know that when I quit cold turkey years ago, i was suffering sleep issues terribly. I wonder if maybe, in your anxeity to feed your "beast" you are hitting your ecig too hard and like a cig, and not getting the most out of your vapor device. Since vapor is absorbed differently than smoke from a cig. Ideally vapor is better absorbed into the body (albeit slower than smoke is) through the soft tissues (mucus membranes) of the mouth, nose and throat. What you want to do, is slowly suck into your mouth, hold it for a bit, (optionally take a shallow 'hit' of it to your lungs) and then a slow exhale through your nose. Not only will this help you absorb the nic better, but in a way for me it is a bit calming, sort of like a meditative breathing exercise.

Some further reading;
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/337017-inhalation-technique-e-cigarette.html

p.s. go see a doctor
 

Cool-breeze

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Nov 24, 2013
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My 2 cents as someone who has mild anxiety/ depression issues: If It was me having those issues I would avoid making so many changes all at once. You listed several things each of which could be helping or hurting. I also know caffeine and nicotine can help with mood issues so I would increase those personally. To be blunt you are an addict, as are most of us here, and thats ok. But you are depriving yourself of said addictions and not sleeping well. While these are stimulants your body is craving the and that could easily keep you up. But as said earlier my issues are rather mild and no one online is going to have an absolute answer for ya.
 

williamclarkonet

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Jul 11, 2014
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Hey guys,

I've been lurking here for awhile and wanted to talk to some experienced folks who've switched from cigarettes to vaping who might be able to give some advice. Otherwise I'll probably have to check myself in to a mental hospital!

My husband and I quit smoking on 9/13/14. FWIW, he decided to quit due to a severe chest cold with shortness of breath that scared him. I quit to be supportive. I am 35, smoked regularly for 14 years, occasional smoker for about 4 years before that (back to age 17). I had no smoker's issues at the time I quit - I regularly run and engage in other hard cardio exercise, my blood pressure was perfect, perfect blood work, etc. Since switching to vaping, I've yet to see any lung clearing (hacking up brown gunk and whatnot that I hear about).

I smoked two packs a day of Camel Blue (formerly known as Camel Lights). I think what really had me hooked was the mental benefits. I have been diagnosed in the past with anxiety and depression and have been treated for both in the past though not for a few years now. I was already having a serious relapse of both before quitting which I was trying my best to manage with nootropics - mostly amino acids and some vitamins/minerals plus regular exercise and good sleep hygiene. I was having a lot of success with the stuff I tried. But that has all gone away.


The first week, I couldn't get enough sleep. Went to 24 mg juice from two packs a day and that was that. I felt vaguely crappy and tired but it wasn't horrible. On day 7 exactly, I began waking up between 3am and 6am and unable to go back to sleep. Instead, it is laying in bed trying to fall back asleep because I'm exhausted but my mind won't let me and it's due to horrible intrusive thoughts. Once I get up, I'm exhausted and I usually have crying spells off and on until early afternoon. Sometime after lunch, I start to feel a little better. Before quitting/starting vaping it was always FALLING asleep that was my issue. That is no longer a problem. The new problem is staying asleep.

So, I have tried everything I can think of - I lowered the nicotine after 2 weeks to 12 mg then to 3 mg a few weeks later. I read that caffeine tolerance can change to I'm down to 1 cup of coffee a day, sometimes only a half (previously I drank 3-4 cups a day). I quit all supplements that were to help with depression in case they were too stimulating for my mind and am taking, it seems like, handfuls of the supplements meant to aid with anxiety. I'm exercising an hour or more a day to try to get myself extra exhausted. But in addition to the crying spells, the anxiety attacks, the early waking, and what I call 'nostalgia attacks' ("Oh look, its a beautiful day! Remember that beautiful day a few years ago, much like this one, but which can't EVER HAPPEN AGAIN?? Let's cry for 2 hours about how that day can never happen again, just because it's in the past, not because anyone died or anything like that...."), I seem to hear/see things from time to time that aren't there. Perhaps this is a side effect of my new type of insomnia. Or maybe the cigarettes were a special kind of self-medication for me and were masking something else. I don't know.


Like I said before, I was anxious and depressed as a smoker too, just not this bad. It could all be a coincidence that this started exactly a week after quitting cigarettes and starting vaping, but it seems like it can't be. I need it to stop - it's seriously impacting my job performance and everything else. Anyone have any words of encouragement or suggestions?

i understand what you are going through and hang in there switching is hard but seeing your doctor is probley a really good idea
 

CES

optimistic cynic
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Jan 25, 2010
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I absolutely recommend seeing a Doctor.

The issue may not be too much or not enough nicotine, but all of the other compounds that you aren't getting from cigarette smoke anymore.

There is a fair amount of literature linking smoking cessation with depression. In part that may be because cigarette smoke contains monamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs, one of the older classes of antidepressants. I'm fairly sure MAOIs are separate from the whole tobacco alkaloids- but not positive). If your symptoms are related to smoking withdrawal, it could be that the WTAs can help, that the symptoms will resolve on their own over time, or that there is an element in cigarette smoke that your brain still needs. But since it sounds like you're really having a difficult time, I don't think i'd recommend waiting to find out which without getting an informed medical opinion.

If your doc doesn't know anything about vaping, you can also talk to him/her about the types of side effects that people have when withdrawing from smoking using nicotine via the patch or nicotine gum. If it's smoking withdrawal, the source of the replacement nicotine won't matter in figuring out your symptoms.
 

bacc.vap

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May 18, 2011
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Thank you to everyone who replied. I tried to respond to some individually, but I think I'm too new to be able to do that? Definitely going to look into the WTA juice. And maybe bumming a smoke from a coworker today would prove to me once and for all I don't want to go back to smoking. Ugh.

Shouldn't be any problem with responding to individual posts. If your getting timed out while writing them up, that's a different issue. Make sure you check the "Remember Me" box when you sign in.
 

jaba62

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Sep 12, 2014
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First, welcome to the forum! secondly, see your doctor soon. I have also suffered from anxiety in the past. But I went the medication route (lexipro) at only 10 mg per day. I can only speak from my experience, honestly speaking the medication has helped tremendously. Imo, there is so much more than the nicotine addiction in cigs, there are thousands of chemicals in them that are just as addictive, just not as demonized as nicotine. I went through the nicotine induced insomnia, then cut back and paced myself a little more. I would strongly recommend seeing your doctor or other health care professional, I know from experience that anxiety can be an extremely frightening experience, if you never went through it, you can never understand it. What helped me is when you go through an episode, you have to keep telling yourself that it CANNOT hurt you. Depression is a serious issue though, please see your doctor. All good thoughts your way!
 
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