Am I at least in the right ballpark?

[OlderNDirt]

I am new to DIY and have been doing a lot of reading here on how to go about it. At this point, my intent is to get a supply of nic on hand and in storage. But I also want to try some mixing to see how it works and what I might be able to come up with. So let me know if I am heading down the right path or down the rabbit hole.....

I am ready to place my orders for 100mg/ml nic in 100% VG, 500ml from Nude Nicotine and 500ml from Wizard Labs. From what I have read, both very clean and not real peppery. Also looking at picking up at least a few 120ml amber bottles, some VG and PG, a 5 pack flavor package, and different size syringes and blunt tips. I have a supply of used plastic and glass dripper bottles to use for now, so I think that should do for what I want to accomplish to start.

Adhering to the K.I.S.S. principal, all I want to do for now is get a couple 120ml bottles of nic base reduced down to a usable nic level and store the remaining 100mg nic in the freezer. I buy my juice at 6mg nic in a 70/30 VG/PG ratio, but for now, I am not concerned with some variation from those numbers. So, using steam engine calculator with a target of 8mg/ml nic and a 70/30 ratio, I came up with 9.6ml base, 77.28ml VG and 33.12ml PG for the reduction. That should give me room for further reductions depending on the amount of flavorings added (up to 25% resulting in a 6mg nic) and VG can be added when adding less flavoring.

So that is what I've come up with for the easiest way for me to get started. That gives me some nic in storage and hopefully by the time those two 120ml bottles start to run dry, I'll have at least a couple juices I can regularly use. And yes, I got the "write everything down" message. So let me know what you think.....go for it or I am receptive to easier starting out tips.

 

[FACE MEAT]

Pre-mixing your unflavored base seems like an unnecessary added step.

Aside from that, it looks to me like you're on the right track.

 

[scotdc]

I think you can keep it even more simple. Here's what I like to do.

Transfer the 100mg nic to the amber storage bottles (I use 250ml bottles). Store it in the freezer. I use a 60ml plastic squeeze bottle that I fill with 100mg nic and keep it handy for mixing. Keeping it at room temperature for 2 weeks is not a waste at all. I use the full 100 mg strength nic and add that directly into my recipes along with the PG and VG to achieve the proper nic level for vaping which is 12mg and 60/40 PG/VG for me. I usually mix recipes in 30ml bottles and adding 2 or 3 ml of 100mg nic is not a problem, and the 100mg strength makes easy conversion to recipe amounts.

I do make up a small amount (30ml) of unflavored solution at 12mg nic to mix small test batches of recipes and/or single flavor tests.

Here's my greatest tip: mix by weight! The single best thing I did after my learning phase was to ditch the syringes and pipettes. I bought some 10ml plastic dropper bottles to transfer my flavors that didn't come in dropper bottles to. I bought a scale on Amazon: Amazon.com: American Weigh Scales LB-501 Digital Kitchen Scale: Kitchen & Dining
It is so much easier to add your PG, VG, Nicotine and flavorings by dropping them into your mixing bottle by weight rather than trying to measure 0.25ml or 0.75ml in a syringe. Your recipes will be more accurate, more consistent, and there's no cleanup involved! If you can afford the $30, do yourself a favor and mix by weight.

A good recipe calculator is the "New Calculator To Try" you can find here in the DIY forum. It converts to weight automatically as well as volume amounts, and has a nice little section for your notes on each individual recipe you might try. I prefer a dedicated program on my computer as opposed to a web site, and it's free too.

This is just what worked for me. Your mileage may vary....

 

[sketchness]

Nothing wrong with a small amount of premixed for mixing test batches and such. But i prefer to keep my 100mg separate and do the math each batch. I am a simpleton when it comes to my ADV.

agree on the scale! quick easy and as accurate as measuring by volume

 

[AzPlumber]

The one issue I see with your premix is adding 25% flavoring will radically change your 70/30 ratio.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I am ready to place my orders for 100mg/ml nic in 100% VG, 500ml from Nude Nicotine and 500ml from Wizard Labs. From what I have read, both very clean and not real peppery. ...

Just wondering Why you would go with 100% VG 100mg/ml Nicotine Base if your Target e-Liquid is going to be 70%VG|30%PG?

The Reason I ask is that Not Much likes to Grow in 100% PG... That can't be said for 100% VG
And 100% PG never needs to be Diluted with Water to improve Wicking... That can't be said for 100% VG
And there are Many People who have Pull 100% PG out of the Freezer after Years with No Problems... 100% VG ???
And to get to 70VG|30PG @ 6mg/ml you need Both PG and VG for either 100%PG or 100%VG Nicotine Base. So it's not like you Have to go with 100% VG because of PG Sensitivity.

So Like I said, what Prompted you to go with 100% VG Nicotine Base?

 

[OlderNDirt]

Thanks for all the quick responses.

First as it relates to all responses, I have a bit of a problem with essential tremors, so thought cutting down the number of times handling 100mg nic might be wise.

Pre-mixing your unflavored base seems like an unnecessary added step.

Aside from that, it looks to me like you're on the right track.

It surely would make sense to cut out that step once I get comfortable with handling it.

I think you can keep it even more simple. Here's what I like to do.

Transfer the 100mg nic to the amber storage bottles (I use 250ml bottles). Store it in the freezer. I use a 60ml plastic squeeze bottle that I fill with 100mg nic and keep it handy for mixing. Keeping it at room temperature for 2 weeks is not a waste at all. I use the full 100 mg strength nic and add that directly into my recipes along with the PG and VG to achieve the proper nic level for vaping which is 12mg and 60/40 PG/VG for me. I usually mix recipes in 30ml bottles and adding 2 or 3 ml of 100mg nic is not a problem, and the 100mg strength makes easy conversion to recipe amounts.

I do make up a small amount (30ml) of unflavored solution at 12mg nic to mix small test batches of recipes and/or single flavor tests.

Here's my greatest tip: mix by weight! The single best thing I did after my learning phase was to ditch the syringes and pipettes. I bought some 10ml plastic dropper bottles to transfer my flavors that didn't come in dropper bottles to. I bought a scale on Amazon: Amazon.com: American Weigh Scales LB-501 Digital Kitchen Scale: Kitchen & Dining
It is so much easier to add your PG, VG, Nicotine and flavorings by dropping them into your mixing bottle by weight rather than trying to measure 0.25ml or 0.75ml in a syringe. Your recipes will be more accurate, more consistent, and there's no cleanup involved! If you can afford the $30, do yourself a favor and mix by weight.

A good recipe calculator is the "New Calculator To Try" you can find here in the DIY forum. It converts to weight automatically as well as volume amounts, and has a nice little section for your notes on each individual recipe you might try. I prefer a dedicated program on my computer as opposed to a web site, and it's free too.

This is just what worked for me. Your mileage may vary....

I like the idea of transferring from a 500ml bottle to a 250, smaller and easier on my hands to handle safely. Same would go for a 30 or 60ml bottle reduced down for trial and error testing mixes. I have used different nic and VG/PG levels in my store bought juices and don't find a substantial difference in small variances, so I am fine with some minor variances to start.....mostly interested in finding what flavorings I like.

But if/once I get down to the nitty gritty, I will certainly consider mixing by weight, especially if I struggle some with syringes. I take it one still uses syringes, but measure by the digital scale rather then the "rougher" readings on a syringe? I know you have no idea of the degree of tremor problems I have, but would be curious your best guess which method would most likely be easier.

And yes, I will look at the calculator you mention. Playing with the steam engine one got a bit, uh, confusing trying to get it working when adding in flavorings.

Nothing wrong with a small amount of premixed for mixing test batches and such. But i prefer to keep my 100mg separate and do the math each batch. I am a simpleton when it comes to my ADV.

agree on the scale! quick easy and as accurate as measuring by volume

Ultimately, mixing with 100mg was my intent once I have a final recipe or two or three. It makes sense to me that 1 formula would surely be more accurate then combining 2 formulas. I would also welcome your thoughts on somebody with tremors mixing by weight rather then volume.

 

[mhertz]

Why not? None of your arguments imho states superiority over VG-nic Also the wicking/water argument is irrelevant in a nicbases, and the nic in VG makes it pretty anti-bacterial, and really there's no proof PG-nic holds better than VG nic

 

[OlderNDirt]

The one issue I see with your premix is adding 25% flavoring with radically change your 70/30 ratio.

Caught me! I only used that guessing as that being a maximum amount that just happens to bring the nic level down to 6. At my age, too indepth mathematical calculations hurt my head (even though I am a retired accountant ), so didn't "run the numbers", just estimated that would still keep me at 50/50 or above. And if not, figured I could always add some VG even if it dropped the nic to 3 or 4. Bottom line, I figure it is all a matter of practicing mixing and trying flavors at this point, then go for absolutes once I get comfortable.

Just wondering Why you would go with 100% VG 100mg/ml Nicotine Base if your Target e-Liquid is going to be 70%VG|30%PG?

The Reason I ask is that Not Much likes to Grow in 100% PG... That can't be said for 100% VG
And 100% PG never needs to be Diluted with Water to improve Wicking... That can't be said for 100% VG
And there are Many People who have Pull 100% PG out of the Freezer after Years with No Problems... 100% VG ???
And to get to 70VG|30PG @ 6mg/ml you need Both PG and VG for either 100%PG or 100%VG Nicotine Base. So it's not like you Have to go with 100% VG because of PG Sensitivity.

So Like I said, what Prompted you to go with 100% VG Nicotine Base?

First, I guess I have to plead guilty that in my research, I missed that. But an glad you brought it up....good to know! I was figuring that since I prefer a higher VG juice, it would be easier to add what small amount of PG as well as flavorings mixed with PG to get there. Not to mention, fewer percentages to deal with! And with my original idea of reducing it down in smaller batches to start, I would add the PG at that point. I've read about VG being more viscous then PG and therefore harder to work with, but figured I was going to have to work with it either way. But adding in your info, I will certainly rethink that. Looks like I need to get into the calculators in more depth and let it do the work for me.

 

[Hitmetwice]

Instead of syringes I use a child's medicine dropper.
Cheap at any drugstore.
5ml. capacity.
Graduated.
And most of all no resistance trying to suck up thicker liquids.

 

[zoiDman]

Why not? None of your arguments imho states superiority over VG-nic Also the wicking/water argument is irrelevant in a nicbases, and the nic in VG makes it pretty anti-bacterial, and really there's no proof PG-nic holds better than VG nic

There Not Arguments.

I'm just Curious what the Reason was to go with 100% VG?

 

[BrotherBob]

Looks like a good plan and believe I see your reasoning. Go for it.

 

[zoiDman]

First, I guess I have to plead guilty that in my research, I missed that. But an glad you brought it up....good to know! I was figuring that since I prefer a higher VG juice, it would be easier to add what small amount of PG as well as flavorings mixed with PG to get there. Not to mention, fewer percentages to deal with! And with my original idea of reducing it down in smaller batches to start, I would add the PG at that point. I've read about VG being more viscous then PG and therefore harder to work with, but figured I was going to have to work with it either way. But adding in your info, I will certainly rethink that. Looks like I need to get into the calculators in more depth and let it do the work for me.

Either way you Go, with 100% PG or 100% VG Nicotine Base, you can get to your Target PG|VG ratios. So either one will work.

I don't know much about people putting 100% VG in a Freezer? I Don't see why it should be a Problem? But I know Many People who have Done the same with 100% PG. And they Haven't Reported Any Problems.

So Just me, if it Doesn't Matter either way to Make my Target e-Liquids, I like to Run in the Middle of the Pack and do what the Rest of the Herd is Doing. Because they are Not having any Problems.

Same with the Anti Microbial Thing. I've found a 2 Year Old Bottles of Pure VG Nicotine Base that had a Fuzzy Grey Colony of something growing in it. But this was at Room Temperature in the Back of a Filing Cabinet. Could something happen like this happen to VG Nicotine Base in a Freezer? Highly Doubt It. But Once again, I'll Run in the Middle of the Pack. Because I have Never of Anything growing in 100% PG Nicotine Base.

The Water to Thin Down VG is more of a Personal Preference. Because Many People do Not put any Water into their e-Liquids. I do. And I'd rather be doing it to just VG rather than VG Nicotine Base in case I Hose Something Up. But once again, that just a Personal Preference.

The Main Reason I asked is I Can't Recall seeing too many people going with 100% VG Nicotine Base unless their Target e-Liquids were 100% VG. So it just kinda Caught my eye.

 

[corn flakes]

I am planning on doing to same thing. Mix up a batch of slightly higher nic unflavored and figure out recipes for myself.

I figure it would be more accurate as the base would be the same for every sample I make.

 

[OlderNDirt]

@zoiDman , thanks for your help!

My main interest is having nic in reserve just in case its availability goes in the crapper, all/most mixed juice disappears, and/or taxation goes through the roof. But since I have a stock sitting there, I figured I may as well play with it and see if I can come up with something I really like. No sense waiting till I have to DIY when I can hopefully come up with something that works now. And I guess it wouldn't be all bad, should I be able to come up with a few mixes I really like, it would cut down on what I am spending on store juice....best of both worlds.

But since you mentioned 100% PG or VG, is that better or easier then say a 50/50 base?

 

[sketchness]

@OlderNDirt hard to say which is easier for someone with jittery hands. Weight vs volume. You will just have to see which is best for you.

I started with a $12 scale off amazon. Preferred the ease of weight and bought a better scale when I doused the cheapie scale in coffee. I still use glass droppers for large flavor bottles so the syringes won't go to waste.

 

[zoiDman]

@zoiDman , thanks for your help!

My main interest is having nic in reserve just in case its availability goes in the crapper, all/most mixed juice disappears, and/or taxation goes through the roof. But since I have a stock sitting there, I figured I may as well play with it and see if I can come up with something I really like. No sense waiting till I have to DIY when I can hopefully come up with something that works now. And I guess it wouldn't be all bad, should I be able to come up with a few mixes I really like, it would cut down on what I am spending on store juice....best of both worlds.

But since you mentioned 100% PG or VG, is that better or easier then say a 50/50 base?

I think Learning to do DIY Now while you under No Pressure to perfect Recipes is a Great Idea. And something I wish More People would be doing.

As to doing the Actual Mixing, there Really Isn't any Difference if you use 100% PG or 100% VG or a 50|50 Nicotine Base. As long as you can get to your Target PG|VG Ratios.

I've been Doing DIY since Late 2010. I can't even tell you when the Last Bottle of Retail e-Liquid that I bought was. So I'll give you a couple of the Biggest DIY Tips that I have picked up over the Years.

1 - Keep Detailed and Accurate Dated Records of EVERYTHING you Mix.

2 - You should Always pull out 10ml or so of any New Nicotine Base, dilute it to a Vapable Level, and then Taste it without any Flavorings or Sweeteners.

3 - Never "Tweak" or Add anything to a Newly Mixed Flavor Recipe until the Mix has sat in a Cool Dark Place for at Least 3 Days. The Only Exception to this is if you use Pure Sucralose as a Sweetener. Then you can Sweeten, Shake, Vape and Repeat if necessary. No wait is needed with Sucralose.

4 - You should Taste a New Recipe when you 1st Mix it. And there is Nothing wrong with Tasting it again everyday. But always follow Rule #3.

5 - Using Less Flavoring is Generally Better than using More Flavoring.

6 - Many Flavored Mixes need a Sweetener.

7 - Always Mix over a Lipped Tray. Like a Flat Oven. Because Spills Happen.

8 - Don't get Overly Hung Up on Accuracy. Precision is Always more Important than Accuracy. And you can Easily reach a point where you can Measure to a Greater Degree of Accuracy than what you can Taste.

9 - Don't be Afraid to Throw a Mix away and start over if it just Tastes Bad. DIY is Dirt Cheap to do.

10 - Keep All DIY Supplies Out of the Reach of Kids and Pets.

---

There is a Ton of other Tips that People can give you. And you can a Lot of Info in this Sub-Forum using a Google Site Search. And you will pick up a Lot of Things as you go.

DIY is Fun. And it can save you a Boat Load of Money. All it really takes is some Practice. And a Bit of Patience.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Let me just say that alto I don't have tremors but do have RA, I would think that mixing by weight would be a lot easier and less problems than working with syringes. Also, it really hurts my hands to hold onto things longer than absolutely necessary and I find that pouring vg nic base from a litre bottle into smaller bottles is more than I can handle. Another member named Red came up with an idea of using a pump similar to those used for larger applications such as restaurants may use.(I will go find his post and link it in a bit). I found this easier yet very time consuming. I think you should consider getting the nic base in either pg or a 50/50 mix to make it quicker in pouring time to reduce it down. And would maybe suggest putting plain vg into 120m or 250 ml plastic bottles that you can put a squirt type top on to squeeze the amount of vg needed when mixing your final recipe.(can also open it up enough for drops too). You may want to try transferring some of each type of plain liquid into smaller bottles before actually deciding on which type of nic base is better for you. I am only offering some things to consider, not telling you what to do, per se. Let me see if I can find Red's post. And also try to provide some links to the equipment I mentioned.

For the pump --- He shows a pic and tells where he got it.....
The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

Amazon.com: Gallon Despensing Pump

Funnels from amazon I like but you can use plastic if preferred.
Amazon.com: Norpro 3-Piece Stainless Steel Funnel Set: Kitchen & Dining



...NATURAL LDPE BOSTON ROUND BOTTLE WITH TWIST TOP CAP
Natural LDPE Boston Round Bottle with Twist Top Cap

I also like to work with these just to measure vg/pg
Amazon.com: Syringe 60cc Luer Lock Tip Sterile (Pack of 10): Industrial & Scientific

You will need a luer lock cap to close off the end so that the fluid doesn't go straight thru. Probably can find them with the Boston Rounds I listed earlier.
And you can find most syringes from 3ml, 5,ml 10ml, etc. at Tractor supply for just a couple of bucks. In their vet section next to their meds and pg/vg. It is probably safe to use their pg/vg but I don't. I think its food grade and safe for animals but humans should use USP grades of pg/vg.
1 ml syringes can be gotten by asking your pharmacy for them. Probably less than a dollar.


I just wanted you to see what I was talking about. You don't have to order from any of the vendors I listed these are just examples.

 

[OlderNDirt]

I doused the cheapie scale in coffee

Should I go with a scale, might have to see if I can come up with a protective cover of sorts cause I can easily see that happening to me!

@zoiDman , thanks for the list, some I was aware of as well as some new things to keep in mind. Believe me, I will be coming back to it for a while!

@Sugar_and_Spice , I can relate to what you are saying! Not only the tremors, but I had reconstructive surgery with partial fusion of my right wrist (and yes, I am right handed) almost 40 years ago and I get a sharp pain in it from time to time. My wife even has to open jars for me from time to time.....role reversal . That is a good part of the reason I was buying in 500ml bottles and then mixing down to 120ml, but had already decided to get some 60ml bottles as well to see what worked best.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Should I go with a scale, might have to see if I can come up with a protective cover of sorts cause I can easily see that happening to me!

@zoiDman , thanks for the list, some I was aware of as well as some new things to keep in mind. Believe me, I will be coming back to it for a while!

@Sugar_and_Spice , I can relate to what you are saying! Not only the tremors, but I had reconstructive surgery with partial fusion of my right wrist (and yes, I am right handed) almost 40 years ago and I get a sharp pain in it from time to time. My wife even has to open jars for me from time to time.....role reversal . That is a good part of the reason I was buying in 500ml bottles and then mixing down to 120ml, but had already decided to get some 60ml bottles as well to see what worked best.

Keep an eye on my previous post. That is where I am linking some items I mentioned that my be of use for you. It will take me a while to get them all.