Am I at least in the right ballpark?

[sketchness]

@OlderNDirt

The American weigh scale listed at the top of this thread is nice. Has a bowl to weigh in. You could put a piece of foam in the bowl with a cutout to hold the bottle you measure into steady. Or a beaker is super stable for larger batches.

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

One thing to remember is that it's a very easy thing to do, it's just mixing liquids, I'm pretty lazy when it comes to DIY, I have squeeze bottles that measure 250ml, right now I'm vaping 6mg so I add 15ml of base, add in my flavoring, since my nic and most flavors are PG based I just top up the bottle to the 250ml line with VG

One of the most important things to do is buy a notepad and log all your creations what % etc... The 2 recipes I'm using right now as ADV's probably wouldn't exist if I didn't log earlier versions and went back to them after I got a little more experience and changed them up a bit...

Best to start with smaller batches until you find mixes you like though lol...

 

[IDJoel]

EDIT: In the decade or so I took to type out my reply; you have doubled the number of replies you had when I started two-finger typing this. I apologize to everyone for the redundancies to previous posts but I couldn't bring myself delete this.
Hi @OlderNDirt,
I'll throw my in here but you'll probably owe me change (I doubt it's worth that much ).

To me; it sounds like you are on the right track with the following thoughts:

• I second skipping the pre-mix diluting of the nicotine. It simply adds a step and will create variations in PG/VG ratios and final nicotine levels. I know there are plenty of folks here on ECF that prefer to mix this way and are willing to trade targeted percentages/ratios for convenience and that is just fine. But for someone new to DIY; it is adding one more variable that can effect flavor.
  
• I also second using "A New Calculator to Try." It is the one I settled on after going through four others. It will have more features than you will need initially; but it will give you room to grow into. Besides being a recipe calculator; it can manage your notes, recipes, and your inventory. Plus the author (@HotRod19579) is an ECF member and has a very active thread (same one I linked) and is very responsive to questions and suggestions. The thread followers are also very good about helping out too.
• The nic in PG vs. VG base for nicotine really comes down to personal choice. There are those that like the antibacterial nature of PG though I have not read of anyone reporting contaminating growth in VG when stored long-term in a freezer (or even in a dark cool closet or cupboard for that matter)(edit: @zoiDman is now the first ). It does have the very real benefit of being considerably thinner than VG and therefore easier to work with. VG, on the other hand, is benefited by that very thickness in that, when stored in the freezer, that same viscosity provides slower oxidation of the nicotine. How much is gained, either due to antibacterial, or slower oxidation, is kind of a crap shoot right now. Both PG and VG have multiple success stories for multi-year storage.
  
  I am kind of in your boat in that I am older and have motor skill challenges. I have used both VG and PG based nicotines and this is my experience: I have always found VG the most annoying ingredient to work with unless I warm it first by placing it in a warm water bath to bring it above room temp (both VG nicotine and straight VG). The unpleasant part is drawing it into the syringe. Even with a large 14 gauge needle. It requires a pretty good grip. Once I warm the VG (around 100-110f ?), and use a 14 gauge needle, it is no problem.
  
  PG was much more convenient and generally seemed to be my preferred medium. However I have run into a different snag. I have found that I, and a friend I also mix for, much prefer high VG ratios because it provides much less "dry mouth." The friend I mix for has a preferred recipe that is 28% flavoring but he needs a 20P/80V ratio. He is also a recent ex smoker and requires 18mg nic to stay off the stinkies. As you can see; I can't get there with 100% PG nic base.
  
  So, for me, it was a practical decision. And the decision was to use VG based nic. Your situation may be different.
  
  
• My thoughts on volume or weight measuring: As I previously said; I am a bit shaky (not diagnosed... just the facts), and worse, I am half blind with glasses! This makes reading the markings on the syringes (and glass pipettes w/pump... I tried both) a real P.I.T.A.! The shaky hands make drawing the syringe to exactly where I want it more of a challenge too.
  
  I can see where measuring by weight may have its appeal for someone like you and I. It is easier to read and you can use the applicator of your choosing (eye dropper, syringe, right from the bottle, etc.).
  
  I personally do not subscribe the "greater accuracy" part of the volume/weight discussion simply because most people choose to use weight estimates/averages, which is fine and certainly adequate enough for mixing, but kind of nullifies any real advantage on the "accuracy" front.
  
  I do buy into the rest of the arguments though. It does indeed look more convenient, quicker, and friendlier to my limitations. Of course it does add another expense so budget can be a factor too ("It ain't necessary but sure looks nifty!" ).
  
  I haven't made the switch yet for one real reason. I hadn't explored the idea of measuring by weight until recently. Prior to that I had accumulated close to 200 different flavoring; with most of them in small 8 mL glass vials. The openings are not eye dropper friendly and the thought of re-bottling and re labeling all those flavors have been prohibitive to this point. I still need to use a syringe (with needle) to reach into the vials, so the "less clean-up" goes out the window for me. So I have kind of just stuck it out. Each time I think about it; I get closer to pulling the trigger though. But you, just starting out, are in a perfect position to consider it.
  
  
• The last thing I would encourage you to do is to taste test each and every one of your flavors as a stand-alone mix FIRST. Before you start making any recipes.
  
  If you do this incrementally (1%, 2%, 3%, etc,); it will do two things for you: it will give you a good idea how the flavor tastes to you, and at what percentage the flavor tastes best to you. And because I know you've done your home
  
  This will give you a much better understanding of what adjustments you might want to consider applying to any given recipe ("I like the look of that flavor combination but the percentages are much too high/low/just right.").
  
  I liked the "instant gratification" aspect of high flavor mixing (using higher flavor percentages that permits shaking and vaping almost any recipe). But I was never quite happy with my results. They always came out with a bit of an "artificial" taste on the back end. It wasn't until I started testing my flavors that I found I was using them in much too large quantities for me. Now I can look at a recipe and say that looks good but instead of using "that" flavor at 9% I know to start at 4%. My results are much more satisfying now and I am saving even more money because I am using less flavoring (the most expensive {$/mL} part of a recipe).
  
  You might just find one or two that you like as a stand alone vape too!
  
  Also while you are taste testing your individual flavors, don't forget your bases. Taste the PG all by its self, the VG all by its self, and your nic diluted in your preferred base blend (e.g. 6mg in 30PG/70VG) with no flavoring. This will give you a good idea of how these base materials might influence a recipe.
  
  AND you might just find that you like vaping unflavored! Some vape unflavored exclusively. Others vape unflavored intermittently. And, of course, there are those who don't care for it. I am of the second group. I have found that when I have grown tired of the mixes I have on hand, I can vape unflavored for a few hours/days/weeks until I get re-inspired, and then I am ready to good to go again. I find it mostly tasteless with a tough of sweet. It is not big on the "wow" factor but I don't get tired of it either. I always keep some mixed (it is also useful for taste testing new flavors. The nic percentage and PG/VG ratios won't be correct but it gets me a pretty good idea.).

Crying out loud! I've written another novel! I really have to get this affliction under control. Well at least you can say you have one of your very own now.

I hope this wasn't too rambling, and you can find something useful. Best wishes on your DIY journey.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Good post IDJoel. I could never pulled any juice or flavor with a syringe(hands just won't cooperate) so I have been measuring with the syringe method %/ml since I started DIY. I did buy a scale but haven't needed to mix any juice just yet. But when I do, I plan on playing with it to see how I like it.
I have to giggle at your reference to two finger typing. I know the feeling. And get so mad at myself when halfway thru writing a long post, slip and end up erasing half of what I wrote. But patience is a virtue. At least that is what I tell myself as I contemplate throwing the damn keyboard out with the trash. LOL

 

[JCinFLA]

The Main Reason I asked is I Can't Recall seeing too many people going with 100% VG Nicotine Base unless their Target e-Liquids were 100% VG. So it just kinda Caught my eye.

Oh, there are many of us on the ECF who buy our Nic base in 100% VG, who don't vape 100% VG eliquids. My vaping ratio has always been 40PG/60VG, since I found higher PG amounts give me headaches. Several local vapers I know vape 45PG/55VG and also use 100% VG nic base for their DIY.

In making my DIY eliquids with Nic base in 100% VG... I've also never had the problem of not being able to use whatever % of flavorings (usually are in a PG base) that a recipe calls for. IF I used 100% PG Nic Base...the same wouldn't always be possible.

As far as things growing in 100% VG Nic base...I keep my working 60mL bottle at normal A/C room temp. in my mixing organizer...for 2-3 months, and have never had anything cloudy, moldy, etc. in it. Might be because I keep my A/C set at about 75, but that's not really cold, and it's still fine.

In case these may help others, too, here's several tips I discovered about making 100% VG Nic easier to use:

(1) Use a 5mL or larger syringe, with the largest blunt needle tip you have. Poke the tip into the Nic base, and pull up on the plunger to about the 2mL mark. The Nic base will keep rising by itself in the syringe...until it meets that mark. Then pull it up another small increment, wait for it to rise, etc.

(2) Or...don't use a blunt tip needle at all! Just poke the bottom of the syringe into the Nic Base and follow the same steps above. It'll work the same, but with no needle tip on it, it'll work faster!

If the above 2 ways are too difficult for unsteady or not really strong fingers/hands, try #3 or #4 below.

(3) Use a translucent, conical-topped, squirt bottle w/red cap (found at Walmart 2/$2.48 in houseware section) to keep your working amount of Nic Base in VG in. Squirt the amount you want from it...into a graduated cylinder! Can put the tip of the bottle right in the cylinder. No strength, nor super steady hand is required then!

(4) Many others have suggested this method - Remove the plunger from the syringe, and plug up the hole at the bottom with a gloved fingertip. Pour, or squirt, the desired amount of Nic Base into the top opening of the syringe. (Obviously, the larger the syringe capacity, the larger that top hole will be, so it's easier to pour into it.) Put the syringe tip over the opening of your mix bottle and remove your fingertip from the bottom!

Maybe those will be of some help to anyone using 100% VG Nic base. Any/all of them work for me and for other people I know who use it.

 

[mhertz]

The majority of reason people buy VG-nic without being 100% VG vapers, is clearly Kurt's many postings on the subject(and the new sticky) where he theorizes VG nic will hold up better for long term storage in a freezer. It was Kurt who invented the idea of freezing nic for DIY and he has close to seven years currently stored without issue as oldest.

VG is only slightly anti-bacterial, but as stated with nic in it, and especially in freezer it's a non-issue, but with added benefits simply. Another benefit is you have the ability to make 100% VG recipes if wanted on occasion, whereas the need for 100% PG is somewhat rarer I would guess... I myself went from 50/50 to 100% VG over the course of time and not because of any intolerances. Or you can make for others wanting all VG...

I'm not saying PG nic is bad, as it's great, but there's definitely nothing wrong with VG nic either is just my point...

It's more annoying with VG nic agreed, but personally the benefits outweighs the negatives imho, and if you use a scale it's a non issue, and which I don't understand anyway everyone havent adopted by now, but oh well

zoiDman, you're not adding water to the VG nicbase, but the finished liquid, just like PG nic no difference

 

[Capt.shay]

Should I go with a scale, might have to see if I can come up with a protective cover of sorts cause I can easily see that happening to me!

@zoiDman , thanks for the list, some I was aware of as well as some new things to keep in mind. Believe me, I will be coming back to it for a while!

@Sugar_and_Spice , I can relate to what you are saying! Not only the tremors, but I had reconstructive surgery with partial fusion of my right wrist (and yes, I am right handed) almost 40 years ago and I get a sharp pain in it from time to time. My wife even has to open jars for me from time to time.....role reversal . That is a good part of the reason I was buying in 500ml bottles and then mixing down to 120ml, but had already decided to get some 60ml bottles as well to see what worked best.

I am a strong proponent of weight based mixing. I have RA an it is a lot easier on my hands as well as my eyes. Gently squeezing is a lot easier than trying to draw things up in a syringe. I did a tutorial and offer several suggestions here Mixing By Weight: Basics 101. Feel free to ask any weighing questions in that thread and I will see them.

 

[Marina2]

(4) Many others have suggested this method - Remove the plunger from the syringe, and plug up the hole at the bottom with a gloved fingertip. Pour, or squirt, the desired amount of Nic Base into the top opening of the syringe. (Obviously, the larger the syringe capacity, the larger that top hole will be, so it's easier to pour into it.) Put the syringe tip over the opening of your mix bottle and remove your fingertip from the bottom!

These neonatal feeding syringes are what I use to do that. They have a tip that fits over the end so that you don't have to use a finger over the hole. I pull the plunger out, cap it and place it tip down in a tall (double) shot glass to hold it. This leaves both hands free to pour liquids into the top. They're available online in sizes from 1ml to 60ml. It's much easier to pour than draw up liquids.
Monoject Purple Oral Syringes






ETA: I don't use needles so another good thing about pouring is that you don't have to stick the syringe into the bottle which results in a lot of liquid clinging to the outside of the syringe and it lessens the possibility of introducing contaminants into your bottle.

 

[OlderNDirt]

WOW! Thank you everybody for all the helpful responses! Like some others here evidently, I type really, really slow (plus have to proof read and make numerous corrections). Believe me, I am paying attention to every post and appreciate each and every one, even though I may not respond to it individually.

I've got a lot more reading to do (haven't even gotten to Sugar's links yet) and the tall grass in the yard is beckoning me for a "haircut" that is destined to take me most of the day. So trust me, I am not abandoning my thread.....and I would much rather be here going through "reading class" rather then fulfilling my "hard labor" sentence.

So in my best Arnold voice, "I'll be back!" and when I return, I'll surely be uttering in my best Danny Glover voice, "I'm getting too old for this !"

 

[Alien Traveler]

Just wondering Why you would go with 100% VG 100mg/ml Nicotine Base if your Target e-Liquid is going to be 70%VG|30%PG?

The Reason I ask is that Not Much likes to Grow in 100% PG... That can't be said for 100% VG
And 100% PG never needs to be Diluted with Water to improve Wicking... That can't be said for 100% VG
And there are Many People who have Pull 100% PG out of the Freezer after Years with No Problems... 100% VG ???
And to get to 70VG|30PG @ 6mg/ml you need Both PG and VG for either 100%PG or 100%VG Nicotine Base. So it's not like you Have to go with 100% VG because of PG Sensitivity.

So Like I said, what Prompted you to go with 100% VG Nicotine Base?

Sorry, you are wrong.
Quite a few ECF members have VG-based nic in storage. VG-only juice is quite popular.
VG also have antimicrobial properties, adding 100 mg of nic in it makes it very antimicrobial.
Part about wicking I do not understand. It depends only on final composition of juice.
The only (but important for me) advantage of PG-based nic is its lower viscosity. That's it.

 

[zoiDman]

Sorry, you are wrong.
Quite a few ECF members have VG-based nic in storage. VG-only juice is quite popular.
VG also have antimicrobial properties, adding 100 mg of nic in it makes it very antimicrobial.
Part about wicking I do not understand. It depends only on final composition of juice.
The only (but important for me) advantage of PG-based nic is its lower viscosity. That's it.

So if you are Right, it sounds like either PG or VG or any Combination for a Nicotine Base will work.

So the OP is Good to Go.

 

[bwh79]

So if you are Right, it sounds like either PG or VG or any Combination for a Nicotine Base will work.

So the OP is Good to Go.

Yeah, it's pretty "six of one, half-a-dozen of the other" when it comes to VG or PG for your nic base. VG "might" help prevent (or at least slow down the process of) oxidation due to its higher viscosity, simply giving less opportunity for the individual molecules to move around, find each other and react with one another, but if it's kept frozen in sealed glass there's not going to be very much oxidation either way. On the other hand, PG less viscous and easier to work with, especially for those still using syringes to measure ingredients. Our resident chemist @Kurt (an actual chemistry professor at a Pennsylvania university, and a vaper himself) prefers VG nic and if it's good enough for him, then it's good enough for me, but even he admits that it probably doesn't make much difference one way or the other.

I personally do not subscribe the "greater accuracy" part of the volume/weight discussion simply because most people choose to use weight estimates/averages, which is fine and certainly adequate enough for mixing, but kind of nullifies any real advantage on the "accuracy" front.

"Accurate" is perhaps the wrong word to use, but it's almost certainly more "precise" than using pipettes and syringes. The scales we use have a resolution of .01 grams. A single drop of nic base, flavor, or dilutant, weighs in around .02-.04 grams depending on composition and what you use for a dropper. I don't think you're going to get "to the drop" precision out of anything larger than a 1ml syringe, and that's going to make tedious work of mixing even the smallest of batches.

 

[ShamrockPat]

One thing to remember is that it's a very easy thing to do, it's just mixing liquids, I'm pretty lazy when it comes to DIY, I have squeeze bottles that measure 250ml, right now

I have never cursed so much as I have at that cheap ... Dollarama bottle that loves to drip out the where the lid screws on. UGH! And that 250ml mark is actually 270ml. (My experience with it only. You maybe get good ones up in Sudbury.

One of the most important things to do is buy a notepad and log all your creations what % etc...

Fully agree with the note taking, but it's much easier to use a Notepad app, which is searchable. OneNote or Evernote both work fine.

I'm also old and shaky. I also find using a scale much easier and more accurate. Instead of syringes, pipettes are super cheap. I think you can get 'em on Amazon for around $3 for 100. With syringes it's much more tedious if you want any sort of accuracy or repeatability in your mixes, especially in small batches. TFA Guava as an example, I never use more than 1%. It's super potent. With that syringe, first you gotta get your measurement at the bottom of the (minicus) syringe as flavors sorta go into them in a 'U' shape. Then, you never know what's extra (left) in the needle if any.

Either way, weight or volume, I put a small funnel into my bottle to measure/pour into.

PG nic, easier to use.
VG nic, you gotta shake it up real good so there are no hotspots.
I use both. The ONLY reson I use the VG nic is because some recipes can bump into that 30% PG ratio that I prefer.

As for bottles, for my PG, VG, PG nic, VG nic, I transfer them all into 60/120/250ml plastic (HDPE), and use a 'Yorker Cap' with each. You can cut the top of that yorker cap as wide as you like which really helps when dispensing VG.

 

[mhertz]

I
PG nic, easier to use.
VG nic, you gotta shake it up real good so there are no hotspots.

Hot-spots today are very rare, and any reputable vendor has there nic blended properly before bottling, but of course it's a good idea to do anyway to make sure(shaking), but lets not spread the assumption that VG nic generally is hot spotting cause it's not.. If it's blended only very lightly, then PG nic would properly/maybe be fine and the VG nic not, but just in case, it's a good idea to shake both PG and VG nic upon first arrival and not only let it be a rule for VG-nic. Oh if you just meant that VG-nic needs more shaking than PG-nic to blend properly, then i'm sorry for misunderstanding

 

[OlderNDirt]

Well, got the work done and cooling down before cleaning up. So glanced at the new posts, thank you all, and will look more closely later. One thing I did want to comment on or inquire about. I sure didn't want to start a VG vs PG war and based on everything I have read so far, DIY is completely up to personal preference. Here is my thought process....let me know if I have a fallacy in my thinking:

For this, I am going to completely dismiss anything growing in my juice. No, I am not going to say it can't happen (although should I ever hear anything about something growing in some juice hermetically sealed and in a freezer, I'll probably go back to smoking ), but want to address the pros and cons of each. I originally mentioned getting my nic in 100% VG simply because I intend to mix juices with a higher VG ratio. But reading through the responses and doing a bit more research and calculations, although VG is more difficult to work with due to its high viscosity, there appears to be no way to avoid using a good amount of it if one intends to hit a 70/30 ratio. However, it makes a lot of sense to me to deal with that difficulty when adding VG and make handling "the dangerous stuff" easier by getting the nic in a 100% PG solution. Hope that makes sense.

But then all the comments got me wondering.....some say VG, some say PG, and nobody said anything about a mix, like a 50/50 nic solution. Only thing I can come up with is that it makes the calculations more difficult, but with juice calculators?????? Then again, not sure I can see any benefit of getting nic base in that VG/PG ration. Sorry, just think out loud.....tired body, tired brain!

And one last thing (for now, anyway), seriously considering getting the scale and mixing by weight, but have done no research into that yet. But will ask......if going that route, additional needs would include pipettes, some bottles and beakers, maybe what Marina2 mentioned (need to check that out closer either way)? Just looking for "must haves" to get started.

I'll stop with the "dumb questions" now before everybody scatters just like starting a game of hide-and-seek! Thanks again, all!

 

[Capt.shay]

Again, most of your weighing questions will be answered here. Mixing By Weight: Basics 101. Pipettes are your friend, a scale, some squeeze bottles for pg/vg/nic and maybe some Yorker caps and you are ready to mix. It is explained pretty thoroughly in the thread.

B.T.W. I would recommend a different scale and I also go in to that in the thread. The AW one mentioned is good but the other is better.

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

I have never cursed so much as I have at that cheap ... Dollarama bottle that loves to drip out the where the lid screws on. UGH! And that 250ml mark is actually 270ml. (My experience with it only. You maybe get good ones up in Sudbury.

Yeah I ended up cutting out round donut shaped pieces of ziplock bags to make a better seal, smooth sailing after that.

 

[VNeil]

I buy my 100mg nic at 50/50. I believe I get the best of both; either compound, pure, has at least some theoretical disadvantages.

When I do a mix I put my VG in a microwave and heat it up a bit to thin it out and make it easier to measure. Although I have a scale, I actually prefer measuring the VG because of the large quantities involved. Just my preference there and that may change with time. However, you DO NOT EVER want to heat up 100mg nic, the fumes are quite overwhelming. And that is a major reason I prefer working with 100mg 50/50.

There is no right way to do all this. It is more like different cooks go about making chili different ways but more or less end up with the same results.

If you are doing 8mg nic, then you can easily have trouble getting to a 30/70 final mix *IF* you find you like high flavor mix recipes, which can run up to 30% flavoring, and the assumption is usually that the flavoring is "all PG" for calculation purposes. It generally won't be VG unless you seek out VG based flavoring. So in that case, even a 50/50 nic base could put you at a 34/66 final ratio. An all VG nic base puts you at 38/62 ratio. Just something to think about. I'm down to 3mg most of the time, so my nic is only contributing 1.5% PG to the final mix, and I consider that not significant enough to worry about.

 

[OlderNDirt]

Again, most of your weighing questions will be answered here. Mixing By Weight: Basics 101. Pipettes are your friend, a scale, some squeeze bottles for pg/vg/nic and maybe some Yorker caps and you are ready to mix. It is explained pretty thoroughly in the thread.

B.T.W. I would recommend a different scale and I also go in to that in the thread. The AW one mentioned is good but the other is better.

OK, I cheated. I jumped past the other links I need to check out and read through yours, Capt. And what can I say except thank you, thank you, thank you! I only read through the first page of responses (will go back and read all of it), but that certainly looks like the way to go. Looks like I need to work on some orders and get them coming, then go through everything else to check what I missed. I started out just thinking about getting some nic in storage, but the DIY bug is starting to bite!

 

[ShamrockPat]

Yeah I ended up cutting out round donut shaped pieces of ziplock bags to make a better seal, smooth sailing after that.

I was thinking teflon tape seeing as how there's a no return policy.

I'll try your ziploc donut method. Much appreciated.