Am I being unreasonable about steeping
- Thread starter Belushi
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True but then imho some steeped liquid is also horrible.
When my daughter and I first started vaping, around 3 years ago, we had no idea about steeping. Luckily for us, the vendor we chose had flavors that we enjoyed, with the equipment we were using at the time, fresh out of the mailbox. We would try to estimate how much eliquid we needed for the month and place our order. By the end of the month, some of the eliquid had naturally steeped.
Eventually, I discovered ECF and heard about steeping. We also started trying new (to us) vendors. Some of the eliquids we ordered tasted good to us right out of the mailbox, and we found some that we thought were better after steeping for varying lengths of time.
We have not really changed our method. When we are trying a new flavor from a trusted vendor, or trying a new vendor, we will try the eliquid as soon as we get it. If we like it "as is", we continue vaping. If we think it needs a bit more time, we steep it. This method usually works for us, despite steeping recommendations from the vendor and/or other fans of the flavor.
We go by what suits our taste and our budget.
Eventually, I discovered ECF and heard about steeping. We also started trying new (to us) vendors. Some of the eliquids we ordered tasted good to us right out of the mailbox, and we found some that we thought were better after steeping for varying lengths of time.
We have not really changed our method. When we are trying a new flavor from a trusted vendor, or trying a new vendor, we will try the eliquid as soon as we get it. If we like it "as is", we continue vaping. If we think it needs a bit more time, we steep it. This method usually works for us, despite steeping recommendations from the vendor and/or other fans of the flavor.
We go by what suits our taste and our budget.
I'm ok either way, but I want to know when the juice was born. If I am ordering online, I'd like to see a warning or notice to let me know I may need to steep them.
The only time I got upset about non-steeped juice was when I was buying from a local B&M - same juice, always aged. Then I suddenly got a brand new batch that was awful. I wasn't prepared for the steep time, so I was in a jam with no vapable juice that I knew I liked. Ended up buying several flavors that I still didn't like but at least they were vapable. The good thing about this was it pushed me into making my own. Now I always know the "born" date.
The only time I got upset about non-steeped juice was when I was buying from a local B&M - same juice, always aged. Then I suddenly got a brand new batch that was awful. I wasn't prepared for the steep time, so I was in a jam with no vapable juice that I knew I liked. Ended up buying several flavors that I still didn't like but at least they were vapable. The good thing about this was it pushed me into making my own. Now I always know the "born" date.
I'm not yet convinced that steeping really does anything. At least for some vendors, I think its a easy first response to complaints of bad or low levels of flavor. I've ordered a good bit of juice from the major 'value' juice vendors. I've not had any juice from them improve over time. The only juice I did think improved a bit after about a month was from a premium vendor that sold dated bottles and my bottle was already a month old when I first vaped it and was two months old before I liked it. I'm still not sure it was more about my perception than any change in the juice.
Taste is very subjective, and I'd like to see something more than anecdotal evidence to validate the usefulness of steeping for non-diy juice. And I'm not convinced that the vendors themselves have much real evidence that two-week steeping really helps the flavor, I think its just easy for them to say, esp. since other vendors say the same thing, without much evidence, too.
Taste is very subjective, and I'd like to see something more than anecdotal evidence to validate the usefulness of steeping for non-diy juice. And I'm not convinced that the vendors themselves have much real evidence that two-week steeping really helps the flavor, I think its just easy for them to say, esp. since other vendors say the same thing, without much evidence, too.
Just throwing this out there:
When you cook and you make homemade tomato sauce, you add spices to it and let it simmer.... and simmer.... and simmer. Why? So the flavors can marry and become something that tastes wonderful.
In a sense, that is the same thing that is happening to the liquids we buy. Ever have spaghetti and it is better the next day? Same concept.
General rule in regards to liquids: The less complicated the flavor, the less time it needs to have those flavors marry. DIY peeps have figured out that a single flavoring added is almost ready to use right away. It is when one is making something like a cinnamon roll or a strawberry shortcake type flavor, where there are multiple flavors going into the bottle. All those flavors have different size molecules that need to break down and meld with each other.
After you've been here for a while, you will notice some of our members that really can pick out different flavors in their liquids. They will say stuff like 'I get the strawberry on the inhale but the cake on the exhale'. Yeah, I don't get it but they really can taste those flavors that well.
Vendors realistically cannot carry all the different variables in liquids on their shelves. We are such fickle people that we change what we like at a whim.
Say you have all these different ratios for one flavor:
100 PG 3mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 3mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 3mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 3mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 3mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 3mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 3mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 3mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 3mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 3mg nic
100 VG 3mg nic
100PG 6mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 6mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 6mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 6mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 6mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 6mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 6mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 6mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 6mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 6mg nic
100 VG 6mg nic
100PG 12mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 12mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 12mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 12mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 12mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 12mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 12mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 12mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 12mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 12mg nic
100 VG 12mg nic
100PG 15mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 15mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 15mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 15mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 15mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 15mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 15mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 15mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 15mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 15mg nic
100 VG 15mg nic
100PG 18mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 18mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 18mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 18mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 18mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 18mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 18mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 18mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 18mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 18mg nic
100 VG 18mg nic
100PG 24mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 24mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 24mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 24mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 24mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 24mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 24mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 24mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 24mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 24mg nic
100 VG 24mg nic
All the above is one flavor.... now even multiply that by 10 flavors. And that is just one bottle per flavor.
Just saying...
When you cook and you make homemade tomato sauce, you add spices to it and let it simmer.... and simmer.... and simmer. Why? So the flavors can marry and become something that tastes wonderful.
In a sense, that is the same thing that is happening to the liquids we buy. Ever have spaghetti and it is better the next day? Same concept.
General rule in regards to liquids: The less complicated the flavor, the less time it needs to have those flavors marry. DIY peeps have figured out that a single flavoring added is almost ready to use right away. It is when one is making something like a cinnamon roll or a strawberry shortcake type flavor, where there are multiple flavors going into the bottle. All those flavors have different size molecules that need to break down and meld with each other.
After you've been here for a while, you will notice some of our members that really can pick out different flavors in their liquids. They will say stuff like 'I get the strawberry on the inhale but the cake on the exhale'. Yeah, I don't get it but they really can taste those flavors that well.
Vendors realistically cannot carry all the different variables in liquids on their shelves. We are such fickle people that we change what we like at a whim.
Say you have all these different ratios for one flavor:
100 PG 3mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 3mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 3mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 3mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 3mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 3mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 3mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 3mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 3mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 3mg nic
100 VG 3mg nic
100PG 6mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 6mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 6mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 6mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 6mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 6mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 6mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 6mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 6mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 6mg nic
100 VG 6mg nic
100PG 12mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 12mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 12mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 12mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 12mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 12mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 12mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 12mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 12mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 12mg nic
100 VG 12mg nic
100PG 15mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 15mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 15mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 15mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 15mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 15mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 15mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 15mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 15mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 15mg nic
100 VG 15mg nic
100PG 18mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 18mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 18mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 18mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 18mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 18mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 18mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 18mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 18mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 18mg nic
100 VG 18mg nic
100PG 24mg nic
10/90 PG/VG 24mg nic
20/80 PG/VG 24mg nic
30/70 PG/VG 24mg nic
40/60 PG/VG 24mg nic
50/50 PG/VG 24mg nic
60/40 PG/VG 24mg nic
70/30 PG/VG 24mg nic
80/20 PG/VG 24mg nic
90/10 PG/VG 24mg nic
100 VG 24mg nic
All the above is one flavor.... now even multiply that by 10 flavors. And that is just one bottle per flavor.
Just saying...
Is that why canned spaghetti is so good? It has steeped for a couple of years in the can?
All the above is one flavor.... now even multiply that by 10 flavors. And that is just one bottle per flavor.
Just saying...
I haven't seen nearly this multiple blends available from Most sellers. We ARE talking Most here, obviously, if you
order a blend of PG/VG that's not so common, you shouldn't be nearly as concerned about the resulting steep time.
They could make the flavored "base" UNniced, steep that and simply add the appropriate nic to each order of the
already steep flavored "base".
It's only over complicated if you Make it that way.
It's really kind of silly IMO to argue Against them pre-steeping, More not Less makers are doing it all the time.
Bruce in Ocala, Fl
I'm not buying the spaghetti sauce analogy anymore. Spaghetti sauce is make from comparatively minimally processed, formerly living things; herbs and spices could be considered rather primitive carriers of flavor.
Ejuice on the other hand is flavored with mostly artificial (even the flavorings the manufactures can call 'natural' are artificial by most common definitions), specifically engineered, flavor molecules that have been sitting in PG for weeks or months. The juice makers add them to more PG, VG, and add a little nicotine. The type of flavors used were initially developed for candy-making and baking purposes. I don't see any candy recipes suggesting that the candy be locked away in a dark place for 2 weeks before it is served.
I don't think the juice MBV puts a FW single flavor, PG/VG and nic into is really going to change in any significant way after two weeks. At least it hasn't for me.
Ejuice on the other hand is flavored with mostly artificial (even the flavorings the manufactures can call 'natural' are artificial by most common definitions), specifically engineered, flavor molecules that have been sitting in PG for weeks or months. The juice makers add them to more PG, VG, and add a little nicotine. The type of flavors used were initially developed for candy-making and baking purposes. I don't see any candy recipes suggesting that the candy be locked away in a dark place for 2 weeks before it is served.
I don't think the juice MBV puts a FW single flavor, PG/VG and nic into is really going to change in any significant way after two weeks. At least it hasn't for me.
A single note flavor, no it probably won't change, though it may strengthen. I definitely have juices that taste differently after a month or two, from when I first received them. They also look different. I had a 100ml bottle of a custard flavor. When I first received it, it tasted like butterscotch and what orange. After a month it was golden and took on vanilla and custard notes. After a year it was dark amber, and the custard and vanilla were at the front of the flavors.
I don't know the mechanism, but I've witnessed the results.
I consider myself somewhat of a juice snob being heavily into DIY. There are very few 'recipes' that greatly 'morph' from this extended steeping I read about. Truth Serum from Roar and my clone of it does change a little. This is what Roar says about it "This is one of the few juices that really does need to steep" My Looper clone also benefits from steeping. The rest of the stuff I make is pretty much shake and vape. I let the bottles get warm in the sun and shake really hard and they are good to go. I rarely notice any significant improvements 1 month later after they have been sitting in a drawer. Even non premium juice I buy from online vendors doesn't improve significantly after steeping. I assume the vendors mix it real well and it has takes 3 days to get to you, so I cannot imagine a juice needing much more time than that.
Bottom line for me is if I don't much like a juice right out the mailbox, I probably will not like it a month later.
I agree with jleeper with him saying it is an easy response to customer complaints about juices just to say 'hey we recommend you steep this for 2 weeks' Especially for guys that are new to vaping and don't know what they like yet.
Brands using 'we steep our juice' slogan makes it easier for the customer to spend 23 dollars for 30mls of juice.
Bottom line for me is if I don't much like a juice right out the mailbox, I probably will not like it a month later.
I agree with jleeper with him saying it is an easy response to customer complaints about juices just to say 'hey we recommend you steep this for 2 weeks' Especially for guys that are new to vaping and don't know what they like yet.
Brands using 'we steep our juice' slogan makes it easier for the customer to spend 23 dollars for 30mls of juice.
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