Offer to give a seminar on the risk reduction aspect of e-cigs.
Offer to give a first hand experience on the dangers of being a buttinsky.
Angry at a Nurse. What Naysayers have you run into?
- Thread starter SmokinRabbit
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Offer to give a first hand experience on the dangers of being a buttinsky.
You're absolutely right; my mom was hospitalized at the end of May, and once when I was visiting, the nurse in charge of the shift came in to see if my mom needed anything, and we were talking, and I mentioned that I had been smoke-free for over 90 days, using e-cigs. I could clearly see her inner struggle between disapproval and her professional role as my mom's caregiver, until she finally, rather grudgingly, said "well it's good that you quit." So her professional role won out, as it should have in a nurse in charge of a whole shift of nurses on her floor. I'm so sorry that the nurse caring for your mom was so much less professional and caused your mom so much consternation; I do think you should speak to her supervisor about it, because if she'll act like that with an elderly patient, who knows what she might do? I sure wouldn't want anyone like that caring for my mom or anyone else!
Andria
Speaking of asthma. I've misplaced my inhalers since I have not used them since I started vaping. I keep one in my truck since it works on allergies(hives) but I can't remember when I last had to use it. My doctor suggested that I try e-cigs. when I told him that I quit smoking he said that he can't say how safe vaping is but he walked outta the room with a big grin on his face.
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On a certain level maybe, maybe not.
People in these professions are conditioned as part of their training and sacred vows to spread the word and act of health whenever they can. Unfortunately this particular person had a doofus moment and didn't take into account that what's best for her patient was to keep her mouth shut since the topic at hand didn't relate directly to her care of her patient other than the elevated worry and stress her Ill-informed information would cause.
The sad part is it seems her higher ups have been too infiltrated by their money grubbing suppliers and fed patently false information that aids in sustaining the agenda.
What really bothers me though is that people like your mother and my wife are out there believing and relying on the first information they're given by the first "qualified individual".
Let's be realistic doctors and nurses are only people too. There's nothing in the books that say they must be infallible. Furthermore they don't have to score more than 80% on their final exams and they're typically at least to some degree dictated puppets of the pharmaceutical companies just to keep expenses down to keep the facilities open that they work at in many cases.
So take the 20% they can be wrong in school add real life situations where absolutely anything can be coming at them and then compound that by seminars, teaching and restrictions that likely often feed an agenda set forth by their suppliers. Then decide for yourself whether it's best to do your own research and get second opinions.
All the good intentions in the world can't always overcome all these obstacles.
My mother was a career rn. I've seen enough for my life time. Then my wife spent years lying to me. My son had pretty bad eczema. I made her make the doctor test him for allergies... everything. She eventually said they did after a visit and everything came back clean. Several years later we moved and the new doc actually ran those tests. Turns out I was right all along and the original doc just couldn't be bothered. Thought she was a dermatologist. The new pediatrician found dairy, egg and wheat allergies. Damn near every meal we were poisoning him and couldn't figure it out for years because she trusted the doctor and lied to me about it.
He can drink straight cows milk and goats milk as long as it's unpasteurized all day every day. His eczema rarely makes an appearance these days and it's always localized. Who knew...
from last September but still a good primer on dealing with the uninformed or hoodwinked -
https://www.facebook.com/#!/mowgli.vapes/posts/1535277783369713
https://www.facebook.com/#!/mowgli.vapes/posts/1535277783369713
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I had a heart attack 3 years ago.
My cardiologist is glad that I switched. My blood work and stress test convinced him.
My blood work is now better than his. He's 10 years younger, jogs & never smoked
My cardiologist is glad that I switched. My blood work and stress test convinced him.
My blood work is now better than his. He's 10 years younger, jogs & never smoked
As a nurse who vapes, it's sad to see all the ones that only go on the local rumors they hear and don't bother to do any research for themselves.
Our main hospital has signs all over that don't just say no vaping, but have to add in "We don't know the health implications of these devices"...sigh. Well, no, we don't know the long term implications, but we do already know that it's one hell of a lot better than smoking. Unfortunately, those signs make it look like vaping is probably scary and dangerous because, after all, the "experts" don't think you should do it.
I have a nurse friend who fires off misleading, often downright false articles on facebook all the time. I don't comment anymore. I just respond with a link to an article with something positive. Unfortunately, most of those positive articles take a little actual reading, so it's easier to buy into the "My mother's cousin's friend's aunt got pneumonia from vaping!"
And here I always thought evidence based practice was a thing in nursing. /facepalm.
Our main hospital has signs all over that don't just say no vaping, but have to add in "We don't know the health implications of these devices"...sigh. Well, no, we don't know the long term implications, but we do already know that it's one hell of a lot better than smoking. Unfortunately, those signs make it look like vaping is probably scary and dangerous because, after all, the "experts" don't think you should do it.
I have a nurse friend who fires off misleading, often downright false articles on facebook all the time. I don't comment anymore. I just respond with a link to an article with something positive. Unfortunately, most of those positive articles take a little actual reading, so it's easier to buy into the "My mother's cousin's friend's aunt got pneumonia from vaping!"
And here I always thought evidence based practice was a thing in nursing. /facepalm.
I watched The Insider (again) yesterday. Made me wonder how much modern-day BT is pushing itself into hospitals and other health care businesses to drive the vaping market.
You know, most of us are proud of our efforts to reduce harm to our bodies, and that's a great thing to be proud of. We are always on the lookout for new and exciting goods that come from our active use of a product that has less harmful chemicals in it than our former choice of nicotine delivery. We even champion for the benefits that nicotine may have in staving off some of the effects of old age in terms of mental health.
Harm reduction is a good thing, to that I think we can all agree, it is not though a best practice in terms of optimal health. Better than smoking but not as good as not vaping and not smoking.
Health care professionals aren't judging you when they say you shouldn't smoke or vape or drink or use certain chemicals in a recreational manner, they are pointing you in the direction of how to best care for your health.
Vaping is becoming popular enough to draw local, state, and federal attention; do you expect that given this increased popularity that our healthcare professionals aren't going to be interested in it as well? Of course not.
Now without drawing your own conclusions how many facts can you present for vaping that are directly related to your setup and your juice? Not many for most of us.
We can as people who chouse to vape, make educated decisions based on many sources of information; some information directly relating to our activities, some only loosely associated to our activities, some not at all related to what we are doing but use able for contrasting our risk against that of the population as a whole. In our excitement we forget that our desire to vape is not a best practice in maintaining our health. Its more like getting a B on a test rather than a C, better, just not perfect.
Our health care professionals are here to point us toward that A, and while some may not do so in the ways we like it is their job. Right now there aren't enough facts gathered to form a cohesive voice from our healthcare professionals saying you should definately vape to improve your health simply because that isn't going to have an equal result in any test population.
I think the nurse did her job as best she could, offering the facts (what little exist) and by not heaping praise on your efforts you believe she was inappropriate and over stepping.
Sometimes we don't like what our doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals have to tell us, it just kinda works out that way.
Maurice
Harm reduction is a good thing, to that I think we can all agree, it is not though a best practice in terms of optimal health. Better than smoking but not as good as not vaping and not smoking.
Health care professionals aren't judging you when they say you shouldn't smoke or vape or drink or use certain chemicals in a recreational manner, they are pointing you in the direction of how to best care for your health.
Vaping is becoming popular enough to draw local, state, and federal attention; do you expect that given this increased popularity that our healthcare professionals aren't going to be interested in it as well? Of course not.
Now without drawing your own conclusions how many facts can you present for vaping that are directly related to your setup and your juice? Not many for most of us.
We can as people who chouse to vape, make educated decisions based on many sources of information; some information directly relating to our activities, some only loosely associated to our activities, some not at all related to what we are doing but use able for contrasting our risk against that of the population as a whole. In our excitement we forget that our desire to vape is not a best practice in maintaining our health. Its more like getting a B on a test rather than a C, better, just not perfect.
Our health care professionals are here to point us toward that A, and while some may not do so in the ways we like it is their job. Right now there aren't enough facts gathered to form a cohesive voice from our healthcare professionals saying you should definately vape to improve your health simply because that isn't going to have an equal result in any test population.
I think the nurse did her job as best she could, offering the facts (what little exist) and by not heaping praise on your efforts you believe she was inappropriate and over stepping.
Sometimes we don't like what our doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals have to tell us, it just kinda works out that way.
Maurice
I can simply sum up my reply to you in one sentence. It's not what someone says, it's HOW they choose to say it.
First off, this was my mother's nurse, not mine. Her instruction or guidance was not necessary or even requested. It wasn't her job. My mother was simply making conversation while the nurse was attending to her wound care. It had nothing to do with the actual patient being cared for (my mother).
As I said early, if she couldn't say anything nice, she just should have kept her mouth shut. There was no need for her to plant seeds of worry in my mother's mind during a time in her life that is already anxiety producing (recovering from major surgery).
Now, had she been MY nurse, and she was directly commenting on my health because I was in her care, maybe I would agree with you. Maybe. Though I'd have to hear exactly what she was saying before I could make that judgement. And here's why.
In my experience, there have been WAY too many doctors who go to such extremes to comment on smoking and urging their patients to quit that it actually does more harm than good. An example is when a doctor is convinced smoking is causing a health issue when it's not (I had this happen). I've also had the experience of a doctor or nurse getting so distracted by the fact that I smoke, so distracted in their determination to convince me to quit or in scolding me, that they are not as focused on the issue at hand that they should be. This is neither positive or productive.
Yes, doctors and nurses should guide us to be the healthiest we can be. However, there is also a reality to how human beings live their lives that they also should deal with effectively. The doctor or nurse that yells at the obese patience to "just stop overeating!!" isn't going to get as far as the doctor or nurse who pats the obese patient on their back for at least losing 20 pounds. The doctor or nurse that scolds the patient for switching to decaf instead of giving up coffee completely is missing the point and is more on a power trip than concerned with their patient's health. The doctor or nurse who can't see positive steps the alcoholic is trying to make when they switch from a bottle of scotch per day to one beer, may be missing an opportunity to truly help someone vs. off-putting them to recovery completely. Sometimes steps in the right direction should be commended. Sometimes doctors and nurses need to get off their friggin' high horse.
Considering I smoked two PAD for 25+ years, I would hope any doctor I talk to with that knowledge would at least find SOMETHING positive in my vaping instead. For a nurse to go on a tirade of how dangerous it is, with no real proof of what she's saying... not okay. And especially NOT OKAY when it's not even in relation to the patient she's caring for, but it's just conversation with a vulnerable old lady.
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Let us also not forget that health care in its current state is more flawed than it is "correct" for current lack of a better term.
Almost all common practices and knowledge is close to or at least a decade behind current information.
Then there's the misinformed or those that just didn't pay attention in class that day who still insist on spreading... errr... enforcing their "knowledge". This seems more the case in this instance.
Almost all common practices and knowledge is close to or at least a decade behind current information.
Then there's the misinformed or those that just didn't pay attention in class that day who still insist on spreading... errr... enforcing their "knowledge". This seems more the case in this instance.
I wish I could say that. My own asthma seems to have taken very little note of the fact that I'm not inhaling smoke anymore; in fact, since beginning my 2nd go-round with smoke-free, the asthma has even been a little worse; I had to start using Advair again instead of just a rescue inhaler. Which is weird because the 1st time around, I could tell that my asthma was a lot better when I was less than 2 mos smoke-free. I'm hoping that as I get closer to the length of time smoke-free than I had before my illness and month-long return to smoking (3 1/2 mos), the asthma will settle down again. Who knows, it might just be that this time around, it's summer and extremely humid, whereas the first time around, it was winter/early spring and very little humidity.
Andria
Well, but the thing is..where vaping is concerned at least, it isn't ALWAYS about concern for your health. That fellow nurse I argue with over vaping? Her motives have a lot more to do with her being a snobby so and so about certain things and yes, she is very judgmental about some things. Remember, those in health care are humans too, and while we try to be the best humans we can (well, most of us) we are subject to the same foibles as everyone else.
Really, I see this as kind of the same as the alcoholic who comes in and says he's not quite able to quit completely but has gone down from 10 beers a day to 4. Encouragement and congrats are needed there, not "well, you are still drinking so you are still failing"..
Yes, I know there are many different elements to this argument that could be debated, but it's just an example.
Ever hear the phrase "better is better"?
Smokinrabbit, I with you that this nurse was out of line. It sounds to me like her motives were more in line with needing to push her own beliefs than the best interest of the patient IN FRONT OF HER.
Really, I see this as kind of the same as the alcoholic who comes in and says he's not quite able to quit completely but has gone down from 10 beers a day to 4. Encouragement and congrats are needed there, not "well, you are still drinking so you are still failing"..
Yes, I know there are many different elements to this argument that could be debated, but it's just an example.
Ever hear the phrase "better is better"?
Smokinrabbit, I with you that this nurse was out of line. It sounds to me like her motives were more in line with needing to push her own beliefs than the best interest of the patient IN FRONT OF HER.
I had a guy I work with say to me, as if it were an absolute fact, "You know, you can get walking pneumonia from those".
I just looked at him briefly, and then walked away...
I just looked at him briefly, and then walked away...
One reason why big tobacco has stuck around for as long as they have is that people will believe just about anything they hear that is from a big company or the government.
I think the humidity does have an effect. When I started vaping last year in August using an EGO 650 with ce4's I did not have stuff that could produce a lot of volume. Now after spending my kid's inheritance on vaping gear my chest starts to get "tight" when I use a dual coil dripper or my Kayfun Lite but only recently. Could be the amount of vape cause when I use the Mini Protank 2 or single coil drippers I don't have a problem. I am ok with that cause I cannot get the Kayfun to work right. Lots of cloud but hardly any taste. I get more taste from the Mini protank. I feel for you having to use the Advair. For me the dam things cost 4 times more than a rescue inhaler. Please don't give up...the asthma gonna get better without "da smoke"
My first KFL build was all TH and no flavor.
I read on ecf that closer to the deck provides more flavor and less TH
I rebuilt my coil as close to the deck as possible without it touching and get tons of flavor with much less TH
Firstly YOU are not her patient and that judgemental and inappropriate "nurse" (are you sure she was an RN? many are "CNA's" certified nurses aids many do home healthcare. Some are RN's for more complicated cases. Either way YOU aren't her patient, and it was inappropriate for her to upset your mother that way. A "that's nice" would've sufficed.
Secondly as RN's BSN's we're trained to be non judgemental and to keep up on the current literature.
it is unhealthy to take vapor into your lungs, we'll see, it's not as bad as cigarettes but it's a foreign substance. For those that have a compromised respiratory system it's not ideal.
Research is coming but what we do know is ..it's not as bad for you as smoking. But it's NOT without effects.
Sorry you had that..that kind of stuff gives us all a bad name.
Secondly as RN's BSN's we're trained to be non judgemental and to keep up on the current literature.
it is unhealthy to take vapor into your lungs, we'll see, it's not as bad as cigarettes but it's a foreign substance. For those that have a compromised respiratory system it's not ideal.
Research is coming but what we do know is ..it's not as bad for you as smoking. But it's NOT without effects.
Sorry you had that..that kind of stuff gives us all a bad name.
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