Answers from your Congress Critters

[tj99959]

[Deleted QUOTE]

You will find that there are quite a few of us here on ecf that are very active in fighting to keep vaping alive, and have been for years. Why don't you join us.

it starts here:
Become a CASAA Member
and if you're inclined to put your boots on the ground:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/thevapingmilitia/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/VapersNetwork/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/improof/

 

[holy_handgrenade]

I honestly feel for you, and totally understand. I am not your enemy. Just trying to get people to see this happens over and over. They want this eliminated. Not a reduced harm alternative, which this very well could be.

But, to get them to leave you alone for one second, you will need the scientific studies. Or the people to discredit whatever BS they are calling studies. Cause OSHA already has the dead mice on diacetyl. It won't be long till all you can vape is nasty tasting swill akin to the government approved gum. Or as pleasant as the gasoline patches.

I just would like to see a more scientific approach. If you got nothin, well - you got nothin to stand on, either.

No hate here, just truth.

The biggest problem here is that as a populace, we are horribly scientifically illiterate. That science already exists. There's a real good reason that we use the ingredients that we do; because they've been in use for other atomizing/vaporizing delivery systems for well over 50 years. We do have long term studies on the effects of inhaling PG (50+ years) How about the fact that it's one of the most widely used delivery media for medications ranging from inhalers to nebulizers.

The appeal to science is only a ploy by anti's to say "hey, we're not against this per se, but we want to be 100% absolutely safe" and unfortunately that's a standard that cannot be delivered. It will be a constantly moving goal post. As soon as we prove (as we have) we'll get a ....ty study like the oft cited FDA study that looked at juice from one crappy juice maker in china where trace amounts of diacetyl glycol was found. So they're using one ....ty study which only looked at one ....ty company based entirely in a country known for having lax health and safety laws. They have yet to do the same study on any american or european juice makers.

Then there's the physics of the vaping. Not everything put into a juice can be atomized and put into vapor molecules. Likewise, some of those molecules are too large to be carried by the vapor and in a lot of cases are way too large to get deep enough into the lungs to be carried into the bloodstream. So just because an ingredient exists in the juice, doesnt mean you're necessarily inhaling it or otherwise injesting it.

In addition, we've had quite a few air quality studies done both in an academic and social study environment. The academic studies have been published and have found only trace amounts of nicotine in the air and higher than baseline CO2 levels in a room thick with vapor clouds. No other contaminants to affect non-vapers health in the same room. Both the academic and social studies were performed to such extremes that it's unlikely to be found in normal contexts.

All that is to say that, for me, the science is in. It causes minimal harm and is safe for those around me. At this point, we've done our part in proving safety. It's now thier turn to prove their harm in order for me to accept or welcome any harsh or strict regulations.

 

[twall]

You will find that there are quite a few of us here on ecf that are very active in fighting to keep vaping alive, and have been for years. Why don't you join us.

it starts here:
Become a CASAA Member
and if you're inclined to put your boots on the ground:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/thevapingmilitia/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/VapersNetwork/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/improof/

Well done. Well fought. Well ended. Be glad to.

 

[holy_handgrenade]

Source?.......

It's the squeaky wheel theory. This is EXACTLY how the tea party came to rise in power. They are constantly complaining to thier representatives and are adamant that thier views be taken seriously. How do they do this without massive lobby dollars and cannot compete with the likes of Big Oil and others that they're sometimes angry with? They call and talk. The actual weights vary based on population and constituency.

But let's think about this a minute. You're representative, and your constituency is calling you. Let's say you get 50 calls all about how vaping is good. You get zero calls specifically saying vaping is bad. So you're going to go into your vote with the idea that vaping is good and would be less inclined to vote against vaping. In my case, Mr Flake represents approximately 6.5 million people in his constituency - with almost 3.4 million registered voters. Which means each of those 50 calls, takes the weight of 680,000 people!

For those of you that are apathetic and think that only money talks in this governement, it only talks because WE'RE not talking louder. We're not educating our reps to vote our way, they get swayed because our silence speaks loudly to them.

This has been proven in every single civics, government, and social science class I've ever taken at both High School and University levels. The Tea Party is a perfect example of this working to their benefit. Not every crazy republican espousing tea party ideals is a tea party person, many have been there way longer than the tea party, such as John Boehner, but their Tea Party base has spoken loudly and has shown that they can and will hold them accountable. Which has made many in the Republican party take heed and pander to them.

I'm not saying that Vapers are organized enough or has enough members to mimic the Tea Party, but this is exactly how they got their agenda to take center stage. Not because some big dollar lobbyist is espousing these ideals.

 

[skoony]

While the science builds on both sides, I think we really need to know what is what before we go sleeping on the White House lawn, wearing tiedyes.

What do we actually know for SURE about the long-term effects of flavorings? Of VG/PG? Is nicotine less of a danger to the cardiovascular system when inhaled in a vapor than in smoke? How old is the mainstream adoption of this fad? Five years? Can anyone really know long-term consequences from a 5 year useage? Are any said studies on our side? Or are they slanted, just looking for science to back up the paranoia of the haters?

I am a vaper who hasn't smoked in a month. But quitting smoking was not my goal. I like the gadgets. I like the hobbyist feel to the deeper realms of it. I love the coffeehouse atmosphere of my local vape shops. If it all came to a screetching halt, I will go back to smoking tomorrow. I only stopped because I refused to fund both sides of the same habit, and I liked vaping better. So, I am not as rabid as some about defending what I don't really know any long-term science on.

And I don't know if anyone else does, either.

Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer, and pee all over the sunshine pep-rally - but honesty is like that. I'd like there to be real science, and not paranoia, on BOTH sides, before I sacrifice hours and hours of my time and blood pressure to defend it. Not to mention money for a "cause". I'm done with those.

there is substantial science indicating vaping is magnitudes of order better then smoking.
visit casaa.org for more info.

speaking for my self an x 38 year 2 pack a day or more at the end smoker i can say from
personal experience that the improvements in my health and well being are profound.
having perused these forums for more than a year i can attest that anyone who smoked
heavily for a period of time has stated much the same when it concerns their health.
regards
mike

 

[twall]

You know, I get your points, although I don't totally agree with them. But what I DON'T get is why you feel it necessary to be so unpleasant to all the people here? A lot of us have answered a lot of your posts about the technicals of vaping, but now, in this political matter, suddenly we're idiots to be insulted at will? Maybe you disagree with our activism, but why it is necessary to insult us about it?

Andria

Politics are different mechanicals.

So, because you answered a couple questions, I am to agree with all of your politics? I say nay nay.

I am an unpleasant person. I'm one of those lives "saved" by vaping. So I'll be around even longer to be unpleasant. In case you haven't noticed, life itself is not pleasant. Just because you can wind a coil doesn't make you Ronald Reagan. Because you can answer anything does not make you Margaret Thatcher. Anyone's pplitical views are subject to ridicule. And politics are my speciality. Rush Limbaugh style.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Politics are different mechanicals.

So, because you answered a couple questions, I am to agree with all of your politics? I say nay nay.

I am an unpleasant person. I'm one of those lives "saved" by vaping. So I'll be around even longer to be unpleasant. In case you haven't noticed, life itself is not pleasant. Just because you can wind a coil doesn't make you Ronald Reagan. Because you can answer anything does not make you Margaret Thatcher. Anyone's pplitical views are subject to ridicule. And politics are my speciality. Rush Limbaugh style.

You know, closer to beginning of this thread you sounded reasonable person – you was not right on some points, your knowledge of a subject was limited – but yes, you was reasonable.

But now… I am asking myself questions (I am not asking you) – are you young and irritable, or is this forum the first one you participate in?
And question for you: how you can politics be your specialty, even if only Rush Limbaugh style?
Rush was pleasant enough to acquire his audience and to be able to feed it his bullmanure. In your case I was ready to be your audience (I like reason), but you got unpleasant enough to push me (and looks like everybody else) away from you. Not good for discussion, but good time for apologies (you know – “if I were you…” and so on). Politicians do apologize all the time.

 

[bluecat]

Worldwide 2004-2014:

Deaths from smoking 50,000,000 (50 MILLION)

Deaths from vaping 0 (ZERO)*

* one death by suicide (injected nicotine), and one death from charger fire

How's that for a 10 year study?!?

Considering vaping didn't become mainstream until 2010 +/- 2 years... That isn't a reliable comparison. Also we should really compare apple to apples. I wonder how many people died in their first 3 years of smoking? How many died in their first 50+ years of vaping? See we just don't have the long term comparisons.

It may be perfectly fine to vape with no side effects.. It could be long term inhalation of food flavoring destroys the cilia.. Could higher wattage vaping change the chemical properties? There are many unknowns.

Hey, Flouride is great.. let's put in the water system to lessen tooth decay...

 

[twall]

I'm done in this thread. If I gotta explain it anymore - you'd get it even less. So screw it. I'm just a jerk.

However, lots of pleasant people turn into jerks discussing politics. Rush is as hated as he is respected, due to his sarcasm. Better than I can do. But I try.

Don't care. It's a thread in a forum, not my identity, nor who I am. I don't go so cheap. If you wanna get to know me, let's go to a ballgame, or a race, or a bike ride through the trails. Otherwise, I really don't care. If your whole feeling of being a whole person depends on what someone types on a keyboard from God knows where - and you trust in that - you are pathetic. We can have a chat and whatnot, but I have no vested interest in anyone, and no one has a vested interest in me.

Reality sucks. But you can depend on it more than anything you will EVER get online.

Glad I lost a fan. My whole world is shattered, now.

 

[Robino1]

Time to chill a bit in here.... Things are starting to take a personal tone and that is not what ECF is about.

It is about reasonable discussion, not ridicule because of a stance that is taken. Attack the post, not the poster. Treat each other with respect. Debate is possible with those outlines.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Time to chill a bit in here.... Things are starting to take a personal tone and that is not what ECF is about.

It is about reasonable discussion, not ridicule because of a stance that is taken. Attack the post, not the poster. Treat each other with respect. Debate is possible with those outlines.

I am sorry. I apologize.