Answers from your Congress Critters

[Robino1]

As was stated above, when we were smokers, they made us feel so guilty for smoking. They did a hell of a job! They did it so well that most of us didn't even consider raising our voice when they started taxing the crap out of our cigs. I didn't say a word when they started telling me where I could smoke. I didn't speak up when they decided that it was no longer ok to smoke inside at all.

Because we were so complacent, I don't think they were expecting us to put up any fight when they decided to come after the ecig. I do have hope that we will be heard and I will continue to be as vocal as possible. They didn't count on us actually raising our voices.

I will continue to fight. At the least I will know that I tried my best. When we win, I can say I helped

 

[Kaezziel]

As was stated above, when we were smokers, they made us feel so guilty for smoking. They did a hell of a job! They did it so well that most of us didn't even consider raising our voice when they started taxing the crap out of our cigs. I didn't say a word when they started telling me where I could smoke. I didn't speak up when they decided that it was no longer ok to smoke inside at all.

Because we were so complacent, I don't think they were expecting us to put up any fight when they decided to come after the ecig. I do have hope that we will be heard and I will continue to be as vocal as possible. They didn't count on us actually raising our voices.

I will continue to fight. At the least I will know that I tried my best. When we win, I can say I helped

Completely agree with all of this! One of the ships that I was stationed on in the Navy even tried to go completely tobacco free (this was before e-cigs existed). You should have seen all of us smokers running around like cockroaches, hiding in fan rooms to sneak a quick smoke. Smuggling cigarettes in like a prison inmate... and no one said a word to reverse the decision to get smoking to become allowed again. We'd just hide and sneak until we pulled into a port and could get out into town... then I'd chain smoke until I made myself sick. Another ship tried to do the same thing later on, and a whole bunch of people decided to get a petition going to send up to the captain... he rethought the decision and allowed us to keep the smoking areas.

I realize that my little story is a much smaller scale than a national/global initiative, but the principle is the same. Cower and hide and nothing changes... stand up and fight, and at least you have a chance!

 

[JimmyDB]

Ya know.... mods do read through posts without them having to be reported, right?

Yes, of course. I think

reads quite a few threads each day. My previous post could have used a few more smilies in it.

 

[DaveP]

The Surgeon General and the FDA are beginning to look at ecigs as a lesser harm route to doing away with combustible tobacco. It's not a win yet, but it's the start of right thinking towards nicotine based products. Eventually we will win, but probably not until all the tobacco settlement money is paid out and state governments begin to look for new sources of the income they have become accustomed to.

Surgeon General Adds New Risks To Long List Of Smoking's Harms : Shots - Health News : NPR

But there's one new wrinkle. Behavioral psychologist David Abrams says this report makes a significant distinction between the harmfulness of burning tobacco and less harmful ways of delivering the nicotine that keeps people addicted.
The report concludes that "cigarettes and other combusted tobacco products" should be eliminated.

"That is new because it implies that less harmful forms of getting one's nicotine — especially if one cannot quit smoking cigarettes — may be acceptable," Abrams tells Shots.

Those allegedly less harmful nicotine delivery systems include e-cigarettes, along with nicotine patches, gums, nasal sprays, inhalers and lozenges.
E-cigarettes are electronic cigarettelike devices that don't burn tobacco. They release nicotine in a vapor that doesn't contain the toxic chemicals that cause most of smoking's harm.
Abrams helped write the report's last chapter on "the changing landscape of tobacco control." He works for Legacy for Health, an anti-tobacco group set up as part of a 1998 legal settlement with the tobacco industry.
Abrams thinks e-cigarettes could help wean millions away from cigarettes. "For the first time in a century," he says, "we have an appealing alternative way to give addicted current smokers a satisfying way to give up their combusted products."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...eral-report-breaks-new-ground-on-e-cigarettes

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/201...eral-report-breaks-new-ground-on-e-cigarettes

 

[Avid]

I keep thinking about "Prohibition".

From History.com:

'The ratification of the 18th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution–which banned the manufacture, transportation and sale of intoxicating liquors–ushered in a period in American history known as Prohibition. The result of a widespread temperance movement during the first decade of the 20th century, Prohibition was difficult to enforce, despite the passage of companion legislation known as the Volstead Act. The increase of the illegal production and sale of liquor (known as “bootlegging”), the proliferation of speakeasies (illegal drinking spots) and the accompanying rise in gang violence and other crimes led to waning support for Prohibition by the end of the 1920s. In early 1933, Congress adopted a resolution proposing a 21st Amendment to the Constitution that would repeal the 18th. It was ratified by the end of that year, bringing the Prohibition era to a close.'

People will always find a way.

 

[Robino1]

I keep thinking about "Prohibition".

From History.com:

'The ratification of the 18th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution–which banned the manufacture, transportation and sale of intoxicating liquors–ushered in a period in American history known as Prohibition. The result of a widespread temperance movement during the first decade of the 20th century, Prohibition was difficult to enforce, despite the passage of companion legislation known as the Volstead Act. The increase of the illegal production and sale of liquor (known as “bootlegging”), the proliferation of speakeasies (illegal drinking spots) and the accompanying rise in gang violence and other crimes led to waning support for Prohibition by the end of the 1920s. In early 1933, Congress adopted a resolution proposing a 21st Amendment to the Constitution that would repeal the 18th. It was ratified by the end of that year, bringing the Prohibition era to a close.'

People will always find a way.

I agree, but there are a lot of us that really, REALLY don't want to become criminals. I just hope it doesn't come down to this.

 

[bluecat]

I agree, but there are a lot of us that really, REALLY don't want to become criminals. I just hope it doesn't come down to this.

One would think our government would learn from their prior mistakes. Unfortunately, they don't. Kinda sad too... most you can't get out once they are in.

 

[Kaezziel]

Let's hope it is nothing like Prohibition.... during the Prohibition, the government intentionally poisoned alcohol to cause sickness and death to those who would try to consume it. People would take industrial alcohol and re-distill it to remove the chemicals that the government added... then the government added chemicals that would distill at the same temperature as alcohol. Thousands were killed by poisoning during that time without the federal government even having to fire a shot......

 

[Robino1]

One would think our government would learn from their prior mistakes. Unfortunately, they don't. Kinda sad too... most you can't get out once they are in.

Once we conquer the ecig issue, next on the agenda? Getting term limits instated.

 

[Robino1]

Let's hope it is nothing like Prohibition.... during the Prohibition, the government intentionally poisoned alcohol to cause sickness and death to those who would try to consume it. People would take industrial alcohol and re-distill it to remove the chemicals that the government added... then the government added chemicals that would distill at the same temperature as alcohol. Thousands were killed by poisoning during that time without the federal government even having to fire a shot......

I didn't know that

 

[Kaezziel]

Once we conquer the ecig issue, next on the agenda? Getting term limits instated.

ABSOLUTELY!! There should be no such thing as a "Career Politician"... that doesn't exactly lend itself well to the whole "...of the people, by the people, for the people" ideal.

 

[twall]

While the science builds on both sides, I think we really need to know what is what before we go sleeping on the White House lawn, wearing tiedyes.

What do we actually know for SURE about the long-term effects of flavorings? Of VG/PG? Is nicotine less of a danger to the cardiovascular system when inhaled in a vapor than in smoke? How old is the mainstream adoption of this fad? Five years? Can anyone really know long-term consequences from a 5 year useage? Are any said studies on our side? Or are they slanted, just looking for science to back up the paranoia of the haters?

I am a vaper who hasn't smoked in a month. But quitting smoking was not my goal. I like the gadgets. I like the hobbyist feel to the deeper realms of it. I love the coffeehouse atmosphere of my local vape shops. If it all came to a screetching halt, I will go back to smoking tomorrow. I only stopped because I refused to fund both sides of the same habit, and I liked vaping better. So, I am not as rabid as some about defending what I don't really know any long-term science on.

And I don't know if anyone else does, either.

Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer, and pee all over the sunshine pep-rally - but honesty is like that. I'd like there to be real science, and not paranoia, on BOTH sides, before I sacrifice hours and hours of my time and blood pressure to defend it. Not to mention money for a "cause". I'm done with those.

 

[Kaezziel]

I didn't know that

Many people don't, Robin.... something about "the victors write the history books" thing......
There is a very interesting show that comes on H2 (cable History channel) called "10 Things You Don't Know About"
It is hosted by Henry Rollins (former lead singer in punk band "Black Flag", also The Rollins Band). Interestingly, he is a history buff and very intelligent... I have a lot of respect for him as a person.
Anyway, each episode focuses on something different 10 Things You Don't Know About Texas... or The Founding Fathers... etc... Well, one of them was about Prohibition. It was VERY interesting to watch, and you'd be surprised at just how many things you really don't know about... if you ever get a chance to check it out, I highly recommend it.

*edit*
Here's a link to H2's page on the show...
10 Things You Don't Know About...

 

[Robino1]

While the science builds on both sides, I think we really need to know what is what before we go sleeping on the White House lawn, wearing tiedyes.

What do we actually know for SURE about the long-term effects of flavorings? Of VG/PG? Is nicotine less of a danger to the cardiovascular system when inhaled in a vapor than in smoke? How old is the mainstream adoption of this fad? Five years? Can anyone really know long-term consequences from a 5 year useage? Are any said studies on our side? Or are they slanted, just looking for science to back up the paranoia of the haters?

I am a vaper who hasn't smoked in a month. But quitting smoking was not my goal. I like the gadgets. I like the hobbyist feel to the deeper realms of it. I love the coffeehouse atmosphere of my local vape shops. If it all came to a screetching halt, I will go back to smoking tomorrow. I only stopped because I refused to fund both sides of the same habit, and I liked vaping better. So, I am not as rabid as some about defending what I don't really know any long-term science on.

And I don't know if anyone else does, either.

Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer, and pee all over the sunshine pep-rally - but honesty is like that. I'd like there to be real science, and not paranoia, on BOTH sides, before I sacrifice hours and hours of my time and blood pressure to defend it. Not to mention money for a "cause". I'm done with those.

I agree that we ARE the guinea pigs. There have been anecdotal reports of people reversing issues, that were caused by smoking, after they have been vaping for a "relatively" short period of time. Those stories are all over this forum.

What we hope to accomplish is that vaping is given a chance to prove itself BEFORE they take it away. The only thing I can know for certainty is the way I personally feel health wise. And that is multitudes better than when I smoked.

Unfortunately, the big three lettered agencies and health groups, want to shut us down just on the 'unknown' factor. They don't want to hear personal stories, they just want this gone.

 

[tj99959]

While the science builds on both sides, I think we really need to know what is what before we go sleeping on the White House lawn, wearing tiedyes.

What do we actually know for SURE about the long-term effects of flavorings? Of VG/PG? Is nicotine less of a danger to the cardiovascular system when inhaled in a vapor than in smoke? How old is the mainstream adoption of this fad? Five years? Can anyone really know long-term consequences from a 5 year useage? Are any said studies on our side? Or are they slanted, just looking for science to back up the paranoia of the haters?

I am a vaper who hasn't smoked in a month. But quitting smoking was not my goal. I like the gadgets. I like the hobbyist feel to the deeper realms of it. I love the coffeehouse atmosphere of my local vape shops. If it all came to a screetching halt, I will go back to smoking tomorrow. I only stopped because I refused to fund both sides of the same habit, and I liked vaping better. So, I am not as rabid as some about defending what I don't really know any long-term science on.

And I don't know if anyone else does, either.

Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer, and pee all over the sunshine pep-rally - but honesty is like that. I'd like there to be real science, and not paranoia, on BOTH sides, before I sacrifice hours and hours of my time and blood pressure to defend it. Not to mention money for a "cause". I'm done with those.

Worldwide 2004-2014:

Deaths from smoking 50,000,000 (50 MILLION)

Deaths from vaping 0 (ZERO)*

* one death by suicide (injected nicotine), and one death from charger fire

How's that for a 10 year study?!?

 

[twall]

What happens if we find out 10 years from now that combining VG/PG, nicotine, and god knows what for flavorings, is WORSE than cigarettes? Will we just go "We he he hell, we just din know no better back in them dayz"? It's a lot easier to temper your enthusiasm now and move ahead from a solid place than eat crow later.

The politicians looking to just stop this absolutely should be challenged. But, from a standpoint that they don't know enough either, rather than from the POV that what we are doing is utterly harmless. Which seems to be the consensus.

Nicotine is still a miserable drug. No matter how you get it, no matter the amount. We do NOT know for sure vaping is harmless, even at zero nic levels. The fact that it is just LESS harmful is a weak spot on which to stand to wage a battle like this.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[twall]

Worldwide 2004-2014:

Deaths from smoking 50,000,000 (50 MILLION)

Deaths from vaping 0 (ZERO)*

* one death by suicide (injected nicotine), and one death from charger fire

How's that for a 10 year study?!?

Stats ain't science. They will hit us with science.

 

[wheezal]

I agree that we ARE the guinea pigs.

technically i'm a Andes Caviidae...

 

[Robino1]

What happens if we find out 10 years from now that combining VG/PG, nicotine, and god knows what for flavorings, is WORSE than cigarettes? Will we just go "We he he hell, we just din know no better back in them dayz"? It's a lot easier to temper your enthusiasm now and move ahead from a solid place than eat crow later.

The politicians looking to just stop this absolutely should be challenged. But, from a standpoint that they don't know enough either, rather than from the POV that what we are doing is utterly harmless. Which seems to be the consensus.

Nicotine is still a miserable drug. No matter how you get it, no matter the amount. We do NOT know for sure vaping is harmless, even at zero nic levels. The fact that it is just LESS harmful is a weak spot on which to stand to wage a battle like this.

That's all I'm saying.

I see your point. I really do. For those of us that were absolutely not able to stop smoking, this is a godsend. We do consider this a reduced harm alternative. We really do care about our health and we read all the reports/studies that come out. We debate everything from nic to vg/pg and flavoring and food coloring and all of it. We are not going blindly into this. Well some of us anyway

 

[tj99959]

What happens if we find out 10 years from now that combining VG/PG, nicotine, and god knows what for flavorings, is WORSE than cigarettes? Will we just go "We he he hell, we just din know no better back in them dayz"? It's a lot easier to temper your enthusiasm now and move ahead from a solid place than eat crow later.

The politicians looking to just stop this absolutely should be challenged. But, from a standpoint that they don't know enough either, rather than from the POV that what we are doing is utterly harmless. Which seems to be the consensus.

Nicotine is still a miserable drug. No matter how you get it, no matter the amount. We do NOT know for sure vaping is harmless, even at zero nic levels. The fact that it is just LESS harmful is a weak spot on which to stand to wage a battle like this. (we are what we eat)

That's all I'm saying.

Did you know:

The CDC has never tested a single person that had NO nicotine in their system (it's called the "background level")
Nicotine is a natural substance found in plant life, and if you put catsup on your hamburger you have nicotine in your system.
Fact is; you have had nicotine in your system since mommy fed you that first bottle of Gerbers!

The human race (as we know it) wouldn't even exist without nicotine, it's necessary for proper cognitive development.