Anyone else here have an appreciation for modern firearms..?

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ThreeDJ16

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Ah, well I guess I misunderstood, as we started off talking about Birddog's pea-shooter, which definitely would.

Why would his? Looks like a two position safety to me? Unless it is fully auto or suppressed, pretty much anything else is fair game on a personal sale. To my knowledge, those are the only items we track with a unique number to every owner. Anything else can get lost, stolen or resold and nobody is the wiser. Another reason gun shows are fun.....every guy selling has some "personal guns" for sale, but I think they are limiting them. Though I must admit, it has been a while since I have gone to one, laws could have changed recently.
 

Birddog

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My BCM requires a NFA tax stamp due to the barrel being 11.5" long. Anything under 16" barrel length requires it by federal law.

And yes, that is a weapon light on the other side, that sort of looks like another muzzle.

As far as reliability, my BCM has never malfunctioned, feeds steel with the same reliability, and rarely gets cleaned; just lubed. 7sixtwo has either had unreliable ARs in the past, or fallen victim to internet BS.
 

LeftHandBlack

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The inability to reliably cycle steel cased ammo is a major malfunction, imo.

If the rifle won't eat steel cased ammo, it becomes a lot more expensive to train with it.. not to mention the fact that if you ever had to scrounge for rounds, you might not be able to find the particular brand of brass that the rifle "likes"..

Well. Milspec and Military Surplus 5.56 ammo is all brass cased. All American made is also brass cased. I stay away from the cheap Russian made ammo and all is good. Not all chambers are like an AK as loose as a ..... on dollar days.
 

ThreeDJ16

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My BCM requires a NFA tax stamp due to the barrel being 11.5" long. Anything under 16" barrel length requires it by federal law.

And yes, that is a weapon light on the other side, that sort of looks like another muzzle.

As far as reliability, my BCM has never malfunctioned, feeds steel with the same reliability, and rarely gets cleaned; just lubed. 7sixtwo has either had unreliable ARs in the past, or fallen victim to internet BS.

Ah, ok. Seems like I do remember something like that now (even though that is completely stupid). But does that make it class three also?
 

7sixtwo

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...As far as reliability, my BCM has never malfunctioned, feeds steel with the same reliability, and rarely gets cleaned; just lubed. 7sixtwo has either had unreliable ARs in the past, or fallen victim to internet BS.

Well, you've got a Bravo Company AR. That is certainly higher-end, and not your "average" AR-15. I'm glad to hear that it cycles steel cased ammo reliably, as you'd expect it to for the elevated price tag.

Also, it'd be interesting to see just how long it'd take for your BCM to choke without that lube you mention. An AK doesn't even need that much to keep on runnin.

Yes, AR's can be pretty reliable, but never as reliable or durable as an AK. This is due to fundamental differences in design, and simple, objective fact.
 

7sixtwo

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Well. Milspec and Military Surplus 5.56 ammo is all brass cased. All American made is also brass cased. I stay away from the cheap Russian made ammo and all is good. Not all chambers are like an AK as loose as a ..... on dollar days.

Yep. It's also expensive as hell, by comparision. You have fun with that.

Meanwhile, I can fire steel cased, Russkie 7.62x39 rnds, (which my rifles were made to eat, and eagerly do), for $0.25 apiece. This allows me to train more, for less $... and it really doesn't matter what you have, if you're not intimately familiar with it, and have put in the regular trigger-time to get there, (and stay there).

As for "loose as a ..... on dollar days", exactly how inaccurate do you think AK's are? Give me your MOA estimate.
 

ThetaReactor

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C'mon, guys. If you want to be fanboys, there are plenty of Provari and Reo threads to do it in. AKs and ARs both have very successful service records dating back a half century or more. They're both effective tools, and each one makes compromises. The loose tolerances and piston action that make the AK so ridiculously reliable also mean that it can never be as intrinsically accurate as Stoner's design. If you want something you can hump through the rough for weeks without maintenance, you grab an AK. If you want to peg varmints on the horizon, you're better served with the AR. If you want the best accuracy out of either, you're not going to be running cheap Cold War surplus through them.

For practical purposes, either rifle can reliably hit a man-sized target up to 100 yards. Heck, Birddog's lovely little toy isn't going to reliably fragment much past that, anyhow. And anyone who's paid $600+ for a decent AR can afford a can of CLP. If extreme reliability and accuracy are all that matter, you should've gotten a bolt-action. This thread is about appreciation, not competition.

That said, here's a pic from back when it was all new and shiny. I don't seem to have any photos of my AK, but you can be assured that it gets just as much attention...

299191_10150332416208144_55683868_n_zps4cef59f4.jpg
 

Birddog

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7six, google "Filthy 14", and you'll see what a good AR is capable of doing. It will show you that they are just as reliable and dependable.

Regardless of platform, any good firearm should not be intentionally abused.

Drunk, class 3 specifically refers to a firearm that is capable of firing fully automatic. My BCM does not fall into that category. The NFA regulates the following:
Machine guns...due to this class, they are able to have a short barrel without an additional stamp
Short barreled rifles (SBR)
Short barreled shotguns (SBS)
Suppressors

There might be something I'm missing, since I've just gotten up and haven't even had my coffee or smoke yet!

ETA: Theta, you'd be surprised what "The Pig" can do...like reliably ring targets at my 300 yd range. Just have to adjust elevation slightly, and I prefer 77grn OTM rounds.
 
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WarHawk-AVG

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Well, you've got a Bravo Company AR. That is certainly higher-end, and not your "average" AR-15. I'm glad to hear that it cycles steel cased ammo reliably, as you'd expect it to for the elevated price tag.

Also, it'd be interesting to see just how long it'd take for your BCM to choke without that lube you mention. An AK doesn't even need that much to keep on runnin'.

Yes, AR's can be pretty reliable, but never as reliable or durable as an AK. This is due to fundamental differences in design, and simple, objective fact.

Sorry bud...misnomer that has been spread far and wide



AR vs AK Dust Test - YouTube
One reason, AK dust cover, bolt and internal working all open, AR dust cover, even open, the closed bolt seals the workings

But I guarantee the tolerances of the AK are MUCH looser, the magazines are usually the weakest link on the AR design

And sorry...the AK is NOT inaccurate...it is quote effective out to 300yards (even my cheapo WASR could hit man size targets that far), past that the bullet drop is horrendous though
Besides...try building an AR out of a shovel though :p
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/179192-DIY-Shovel-AK-photo-tsunami-warning!

However I really want a .300 AAC Blackout upper for mine! :p

With that said..buy em both and shoot em till your wallet starts to cry! :D
 
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ThetaReactor

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I'm lusting after a .458 SOCOM upper, myself. But, then, I like fat bullets. I'm the kind of person who will give you a weird look for even suggesting .45 Auto comes in anything but 230gr.

My AR was built to be light. Simple furniture, a 14.5" gov. profile barrel, and no extraneous crap hanging off the front end. I made a concession for the EoTech, because it's just stupid fast. It's got a sling and a flip up rear sight, but otherwise it's as simple as you see there. I may add a small light at some point, but that's it.
 

WarHawk-AVG

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I'm lusting after a .458 SOCOM upper, myself. But, then, I like fat bullets. I'm the kind of person who will give you a weird look for even suggesting .45 Auto comes in anything but 230gr.

My AR was built to be light. Simple furniture, a 14.5" gov. profile barrel, and no extraneous crap hanging off the front end. I made a concession for the EoTech, because it's just stupid fast. It's got a sling and a flip up rear sight, but otherwise it's as simple as you see there. I may add a small light at some point, but that's it.
but...but...but...flying ashtrays man!

45isbetter.jpg


:D
 

ThreeDJ16

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7six, google "Filthy 14", and you'll see what a good AR is capable of doing. It will show you that they are just as reliable and dependable.

Regardless of platform, any good firearm should not be intentionally abused.

Drunk, class 3 specifically refers to a firearm that is capable of firing fully automatic. My BCM does not fall into that category. The NFA regulates the following:
Machine guns...due to this class, they are able to have a short barrel without an additional stamp
Short barreled rifles (SBR)
Short barreled shotguns (SBS)
Suppressors

There might be something I'm missing, since I've just gotten up and haven't even had my coffee or smoke yet!

ETA: Theta, you'd be surprised what "The Pig" can do...like reliably ring targets at my 300 yd range. Just have to adjust elevation slightly, and I prefer 77grn OTM rounds.

Thank you, this thread has been very enlightening.
 
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