Are you religious?

[aspen]

I will say it again, I admire you. You son is one lucky guy. Religion is just a topic to be discussed and should be.
I wonder what the poll means with the statistics collected, in fact what are the statistic results? Oh well I guess it really is a mute point.
My best to you Mamu

 

[MonkeyMonk]

Mamu, my heart goes out to you. Please come join us at Christian Vapors and add your son to our prayer closet. (He is added to my daily prayers, now)

Kate, thank you for sharing parts of your life, too.

I wanted to explain a misconception about Catholics...people have posted that they thought that we prayed to the saints or to statues. We do neither. We pray to God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and we ask for intercessory prayers from the saints. The statues are reminders, they assist in meditating and in reminding us of the holy lives of the saints.

As far as people who believe and people who do not believe, I think this quote is true: "To those who believe no proof is necessary, but to those who do not believe, no proof is enough." The gift of faith, is just that, a gift... If you want it, it will be given to you...

Long ago I heard a story about a blind angry girl who hated God, and she was taken in by some nuns... One of the nuns asked her to talk to God for just 15 minutes a day. The girl said something like, "Look at me. I hate him." And, the nun said, "Then, tell him so. Spend the whole 15 minutes telling him that you hate him and why you hate him." The girl agreed to do this. At the end of 1 month, the girl announced that she wanted to join the order of the nuns that she had been staying with and that she had fallen in love with God.

So, if you have issues with God, then just talk with him... He will be there listening, for he never leaves our side.

 

[gep]

Mamu, my heart goes out to you. Please come join us at Christian Vapors and add your son to our prayer closet. (He is added to my daily prayers, now)

Kate, thank you for sharing parts of your life, too.

I wanted to explain a misconception about Catholics...people have posted that they thought that we prayed to the saints or to statues. We do neither. We pray to God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and we ask for intercessory prayers from the saints. The statues are reminders, they assist in meditating and in reminding us of the holy lives of the saints.

As far as people who believe and people who do not believe, I think this quote is true: "To those who believe no proof is necessary, but to those who do not believe, no proof is enough." The gift of faith, is just that, a gift... If you want it, it will be given to you...

Long ago I heard a story about a blind angry girl who hated God, and she was taken in by some nuns... One of the nuns asked her to talk to God for just 15 minutes a day. The girl said something like, "Look at me. I hate him." And, the nun said, "Then, tell him so. Spend the whole 15 minutes telling him that you hate him and why you hate him." The girl agreed to do this. At the end of 1 month, the girl announced that she wanted to join the order of the nuns that she had been staying with and that she had fallen in love with God.

So, if you have issues with God, then just talk with him... He will be there listening, for he never leaves our side.

You rock MM!!

 

[gashin]

I was raised Catholic for 18 years and attended Catholic elementary and high schools and served as an altar server also. I've studied the Bible in depth and have had several discussions with my priests about religion. To get to the point - I find that Catholicism is full of contradictions and teaches many things that aren't in the Bible. They ignore the fact that Jesus taught social revolution and to enlighten people to the reality that heaven is for the tiny elite. No where in the bible did Jesus make the claim that he was God and no where in the Bible is Mary glorified as a highly-moral person. These ideas as well as the idea of the trinity as well as the lives of the worshipped saints (Catholics DO worship them - American Catholics are largely isolated from the widespread worship of Saint Images in the third world, who are the majority of the Catholic population of the world) who are promoted mostly for their submission to exploitation rather than for any actual contribution to social evolution were created by Catholic scholars to maintain the Church's stranglehold on free and logical thinking The Church has been the source of much oppression since its creation and was the sole source of the Dark ages as well as authoritarianism during recent times. During the past couple centuries, the Church did not speak out against slavery while also opposing civil rights and racial equality. In the 20th century, the Church was a strong supporter of Fascist regimes and even supported Hitler (don't believe me? The pope sent Hitler a congratulatory note in the late 30s after he survived an assasination attempt and after thousands of jews were forced to leave Germany while hundreds were already murdered in Nazi-sponsored riots). Even after the Holocaust, the Church has been slow to admit their role in passively letting these events happen and only in recent times has made any sort of apology to the victims of the Holocaust.

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39)"

Can you really ignore the violent teachings of the Old Testament and the admitted call for social dissolution by Jesus?

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations … then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy." (Deuteronomy 7:1-2)

how good can a God be that commands the following?
"I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD." (Ezekiel 20:25-26)

"If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10)

" If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house." (Leviticus 22:20-1)

"When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you." (Deuteronomy 20:10-17)

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property." (Exodus 20:20-21)


"Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men." (1 Peter 2:13)

"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh." (1 Peter 2:18)

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man" (John 3:13)

"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid." (John 5:31)

Mamu, my heart goes out to you. Please come join us at Christian Vapors and add your son to our prayer closet. (He is added to my daily prayers, now)

Kate, thank you for sharing parts of your life, too.

I wanted to explain a misconception about Catholics...people have posted that they thought that we prayed to the saints or to statues. We do neither. We pray to God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and we ask for intercessory prayers from the saints. The statues are reminders, they assist in meditating and in reminding us of the holy lives of the saints.

As far as people who believe and people who do not believe, I think this quote is true: "To those who believe no proof is necessary, but to those who do not believe, no proof is enough." The gift of faith, is just that, a gift... If you want it, it will be given to you...

Long ago I heard a story about a blind angry girl who hated God, and she was taken in by some nuns... One of the nuns asked her to talk to God for just 15 minutes a day. The girl said something like, "Look at me. I hate him." And, the nun said, "Then, tell him so. Spend the whole 15 minutes telling him that you hate him and why you hate him." The girl agreed to do this. At the end of 1 month, the girl announced that she wanted to join the order of the nuns that she had been staying with and that she had fallen in love with God.

So, if you have issues with God, then just talk with him... He will be there listening, for he never leaves our side.

 

[mamu]

um... that's ecigmall.com... ok...

 

[God]

I was raised Catholic for 18 years and attended Catholic elementary and high schools and served as an altar server also. I've studied the Bible in depth and have had several discussions with my priests about religion. To get to the point - I find that Catholicism is full of contradictions and teaches many things that aren't in the Bible. They ignore the fact that Jesus taught social revolution and to enlighten people to the reality that heaven is for the tiny elite. No where in the bible did Jesus make the claim that he was God and no where in the Bible is Mary glorified as a highly-moral person. These ideas as well as the idea of the trinity as well as the lives of the worshipped saints (Catholics DO worship them - American Catholics are largely isolated from the widespread worship of Saint Images in the third world, who are the majority of the Catholic population of the world) who are promoted mostly for their submission to exploitation rather than for any actual contribution to social evolution were created by Catholic scholars to maintain the Church's stranglehold on free and logical thinking The Church has been the source of much oppression since its creation and was the sole source of the Dark ages as well as authoritarianism during recent times. During the past couple centuries, the Church did not speak out against slavery while also opposing civil rights and racial equality. In the 20th century, the Church was a strong supporter of Fascist regimes and even supported Hitler (don't believe me? The pope sent Hitler a congratulatory note in the late 30s after he survived an assasination attempt and after thousands of jews were forced to leave Germany while hundreds were already murdered in Nazi-sponsored riots). Even after the Holocaust, the Church has been slow to admit their role in passively letting these events happen and only in recent times has made any sort of apology to the victims of the Holocaust.

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39)"

Can you really ignore the violent teachings of the Old Testament and the admitted call for social dissolution by Jesus?

"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations … then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy." (Deuteronomy 7:1-2)

how good can a God be that commands the following?
"I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD." (Ezekiel 20:25-26)

"If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10)

" If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house." (Leviticus 22:20-1)

"When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you." (Deuteronomy 20:10-17)

"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property." (Exodus 20:20-21)


"Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men." (1 Peter 2:13)

"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh." (1 Peter 2:18)

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man" (John 3:13)

"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid." (John 5:31)

Thank you.

 

[surbitonPete]

The only 'fight' going on in the universe is between good and evil....positive and negative and if there is a god who represents all that is good then he wouldn't give a damn if you 'believed' in him or not....the only thing he/she/it would care about was if you had goodness in your heart and soul. In every nation in every religion..there are good people and there are bad and it's absolutely irrelevant what they 'believe'. You could worship God or Allah, the Sun or the Moon it's irrelevant. When people fight wars the only 'side' he/she/it would support would be the good people. We fight wars against each other but his/her/it's war would be in trying to save the 'good' people on either side of the battle and that doesn't mean the 'believers'.

 

[Kate]

I agree 100% Pete. A good god wouldn't want adoration, attention or subservience, they would want to support good in the world wherever and whoever that came from.

Someone said it earlier very well - it's what's inside that counts.

I'd add - the ends do not justify the means. An all powerful deity would not create evil and suffering if they were good, how could they conceive such things unless they had it in them?

 

[Caesarea]

God is a modder. However I don't profess to know where it's going.

C.

 

[God]

The only 'fight' going on in the universe is between good and evil....positive and negative and if there is a god who represents all that is good then he wouldn't give a damn if you 'believed' in him or not....the only thing he/she/it would care about was if you had goodness in your heart and soul. In every nation in every religion..there are good people and there are bad and it's absolutely irrelevant what they 'believe'. You could worship God or Allah, the Sun or the Moon it's irrelevant. When people fight wars the only 'side' he/she/it would support would be the good people. We fight wars against each other but his/her/it's war would be in trying to save the 'good' people on either side of the battle and that doesn't mean the 'believers'.

So what's the incentive for being "good". And exactly what is "good" and what is "evil"? And for that matter (pun intended), "positive" and "negative"? Why bother choosing? Who defines those? If God doesn't exist, how could he care? If He does, why does He? How does He? What if only 1% were "good people"? How do you know if you are "good" or "bad" (evil)? Are you responsible or is God? And if there is no God, who gets to say who's responsible and make the judgments?

 

[Caesarea]

None of your business, I'd say. How could you know any of that.
Meantime try to know yourself and do as you would be done by.

C.

 

[Kate]

Healthy people are good/good is balance and health, the incentive is feeling good and well. Unhealthy people create and experience evil/evil is bad health.

Ethics are a far more healthy (good), rational and effective way to teach citizenship and desirable behaviour.

It wasn't us that created evil, it was you apparently and your disordered teachings and stalking are very evil/unhealthy. You're nothing but dissonance, loss of mind and irresponsibility.

 

[wanderlust]

Webster defines good as "To any useful end or purpose; serviceable: Wholesome; right; virtuous; sufficient. Bad is defined as "The opposite of good; wicked; immoral; infirm; injurious; imperfect." Christians believe we were created good and made the decision to sin and consequently became bad. God is perfect, defined by Webster as "Finished, complete, consumate; not defective." Can good and bad exist together? Isn't that the paradox? Like two sides of a coin they will always be seperated by a gulf? That is the position mankind finds himself in. We are defective. No good work will qualify according to Christianity. Because bad resides within us. Look at the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Obviously the rich man was good by our standards because he wanted to tell his family of what would befall them. Being "good" is just not good enough. We are all sinners; however the believer is a sinner saved by grace (defined by Webster as "mercy, pecuiliar priviliege") or as Christianity defines grace as God's Riches at Christ's Expense. Does that mean the believer will never sin again? No, because we are still defective and perfected only through Jesus. We can not in any other way "merit" that perfection than believing on one who was perfect to make intercesion for us. That's the forgiveness part we receive as a gift (paid for by Jesus) that is freely offered to humanity. In Jewish tradition; refusing a gift dishonors the giver. Is humanity allowed to do that? Absolutely but the natural consequence exists of being absent from God. As a believer we are still bound by the earthly defective body and sin. We seek God's forgiveness and repent. We try to become more good on a daily basis until we are called home. Can we be assured of our salvation despite being defective? Yes, and such reassurance is a great comfort to the believer. I don't think any other religion offers that kind of assurance. Most seem to require our works or rituals and offer a big "maybe." If we could become good on our own there would be no need for Jesus. Remember we are exploring the heavenly things and trying to describe it in human terms. Do I understand all there is about God? No, I wouldn't be able to believe in a god that I fully understood. That would have been a god of my own creation (fallible and defective). We owe it to ourselves to find the God that is and establish a personal relationship. We have a lifetime to do this afterall.

 

[Kate]

... who gets to say who's responsible and make the judgments?

In a civilised society the courts, justice system, peers and ethics committees. Collaboration, co-operation and shared values will hold us together.


Really, can we afford to deny our responsibilities as good/healthy citizens to follow an essentially evil overlord? That's what Abrahamic tradition wants us to do. Your god created the devil, it's from him and is him.

I was god for a while and that includes being the devil. It's tempting to promote your agenda without realising that you might be doing more harm than good. Everyone is responsible for finding and following their own path to good (spiritual) health. Not one of us gets away alive or without responsibility for our actions.

 

[wanderlust]

"..more good untill we are called home." I didn't mean we achieve a certain goodness and are then promoted. I ment we spend our lifetimes (however long) trying to become more like Jesus because that is who we believe in and want to emulate.

 

[wanderlust]

Kate, God created the angel. Lucifer chose to rebel and became what he is. They are thinking, created beings too.

 

[Kate]

What gives anyone the authority to create life when they know they will be inflicting unbearable suffering on that life?

What kind of entity would do that?

 

[wanderlust]

Who inflicts the unbearable suffering? Certainly you don't mean God. What about taking responsibility for our own actions? For every action there are consequences. Why do we choose to do what we want and then seek to avoid the consequences? Isn't that proclaiming the we are gods?

 

[Kate]

I asked first.

If your god was the initial consciousness and created everything why is he not responsible?

 

[wanderlust]

By whose authority? If I "create" something I have some sayso by copyright laws, etc. to the conditions of its use. We see God laid down plenty of law regarding his creation. If I drop a pencil it falls not 9 out of 10 times but 10 out of ten times. The laws are written throughout the universe. How self-inflated are our egos as humans. Statement not question. Do we conceive that if there are physical laws there would be no spiritual laws? Of course if we don't conceive of a creator or eternity then this would be a silly question I suppose.