Arkansas war on vaping begins
- Thread starter Shawn Hoefer
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Although this thread has been seriously hijacked... SMH... I have to chime in here...
The average tax rate in the US is roughly the same as the average tax rate in the UK. Their "excessive" taxation covers their medical care. Our same rate - which you infer isn't excessive - does not. Instead, we pay the same tax rate AND insurance AND deductibles.
Care to redefine excessive?
Tax on test: do Britons pay more than most?
We do have a LOT more roads, a lot more bridges, a lot more people on various financial assistance programs, etc than the UK does. Not to mention we do a lot more nation building and rebuilding (after we destroyed it) than anyone else. All of that takes money. So even if we did go to a government paid system it would require quite a large tax hike. The real question is, is OUR government efficient enough to give everyone health care for the same amount we are currently collectively paying for premiums? Honestly, I seriously doubt it.
I think some of it would cause job loss. I mean, the current complexity of the systems with all the billing, coding, prior authorizations, etc.. etc.
I work in the healthcare field and there have been times I have briefly been on public assistance. I will say there are times when it is far cheaper to be, and if you have a decent set of docs, it's not so terrible. I was able to get an expensive orphan drug for free, and when I started work I fully expected to pay like 60 bucks in copays....
ONLY my WORK PHARMACY (OMG they are the best) FOUND and enrolled me in COUPON PORGRAM and just called to see if I wanted them to use a personal email and what was it. LOL. I have never had that happen at a pharmacy EVER.
Most of my meds are generic, and there is an incentive program where you pay 1 dollar if you are an employee instead of five. It's nutballs. All the money I spend on mods, is money used to spend on Medicaid copays.
The system can be very good to you, or very bad. I've been pretty lucky with the "good" for the most part.
But a HUGE chunk of the economy would be just GONE if the government did it right.
I personally feel (having been on Medicare part D) that they do it HORRIBLY. The programs offered are terrible.
The worst part is if I don't stay on it (and I don't want to pay 100 bucks ish a month for NOTHING, but if I drop it I will be penalized a certain amount for every month between the time I enroll again (if I have to, I hope not but) FOR the rest of my LIFE. That penalty should have people brandishing guns at their local social security office.) And, I get to "drop it" when THEY say so which is freaking 8 and a half YEARS.
It's better than no insurance at all, and I do plan to retire at some point, but I think the government has meddled MORE with like, retirement health benefits than ANYTHING. They are desperately doing all they can to keep it limping along with stuff like that.
Oy. It's a mess for sure.
Anna
I work in the healthcare field and there have been times I have briefly been on public assistance. I will say there are times when it is far cheaper to be, and if you have a decent set of docs, it's not so terrible. I was able to get an expensive orphan drug for free, and when I started work I fully expected to pay like 60 bucks in copays....
ONLY my WORK PHARMACY (OMG they are the best) FOUND and enrolled me in COUPON PORGRAM and just called to see if I wanted them to use a personal email and what was it. LOL. I have never had that happen at a pharmacy EVER.
Most of my meds are generic, and there is an incentive program where you pay 1 dollar if you are an employee instead of five. It's nutballs. All the money I spend on mods, is money used to spend on Medicaid copays.
The system can be very good to you, or very bad. I've been pretty lucky with the "good" for the most part.
But a HUGE chunk of the economy would be just GONE if the government did it right.
I personally feel (having been on Medicare part D) that they do it HORRIBLY. The programs offered are terrible.
The worst part is if I don't stay on it (and I don't want to pay 100 bucks ish a month for NOTHING, but if I drop it I will be penalized a certain amount for every month between the time I enroll again (if I have to, I hope not but) FOR the rest of my LIFE. That penalty should have people brandishing guns at their local social security office.) And, I get to "drop it" when THEY say so which is freaking 8 and a half YEARS.
It's better than no insurance at all, and I do plan to retire at some point, but I think the government has meddled MORE with like, retirement health benefits than ANYTHING. They are desperately doing all they can to keep it limping along with stuff like that.
Oy. It's a mess for sure.
Anna
We also have a lot more people... 327000000 vs 66000000... roughly 5x.
But, you've hit the nail near the head... is our government efficient enough? I would also ask if the big pharma/big insurance corruption is too entrenched to remove...
Point being, on a per capita basis, we are taxed more than those in the UK, for which we get (on an individual basis) less.
Sorry if this is On-Topic.
But has Anyone who is pushing for AR SB347 said where the Tax Revenues are suppose to go?
Or is this one of those Dump it in the General Fund and then Spend It where you want?
But has Anyone who is pushing for AR SB347 said where the Tax Revenues are suppose to go?
Or is this one of those Dump it in the General Fund and then Spend It where you want?
As I understand it, SB347 is dead. There is the possibility that it could rear its ugly head again if a motion was made and passed to expunged get the original committee vote...
And, thanks for being topical.
Well that is Good News. But make sure to have it on your Reg Watch/Notification.
I've seen the Same Tax Legislation re-introduced Year after Year after Year.
Things like benefit coverage under Medicare can be problematic especially with the crazy way congress designed Part D close to 20 years ago. Too many compromises set in stone. Still, ask the average Medicare brnificiary if they would give up their benefits (not just improve the lousy rx coverage)? Right now federal programs from Medicare, Medicaid, Tricare (military for those unaware) and the VA system (tge smallest segment) cover 1/3 of all Americans. So about 80 million people are already under a government program.
As to job losses, it's not like all that paperwork will disappear. And it's not like all those insurers go out of business. Right now programs like those mentioned are already managed by third party administrators, HMO PPO choices for Medicare recipients and even Medicaid depending on your state.
On efficiency, well, no way to know, but under the current scenario private insurers eat 10% (if not more) goes for administrative fees and profits. So there's a little bit of a buffer there even if the base expenses do remain the same.
And yet again, another issue weakly related to Arkansas.
As to job losses, it's not like all that paperwork will disappear. And it's not like all those insurers go out of business. Right now programs like those mentioned are already managed by third party administrators, HMO PPO choices for Medicare recipients and even Medicaid depending on your state.
On efficiency, well, no way to know, but under the current scenario private insurers eat 10% (if not more) goes for administrative fees and profits. So there's a little bit of a buffer there even if the base expenses do remain the same.
And yet again, another issue weakly related to Arkansas.
Yes, but that's the point, Eskie. TRUE government healthcare means the government RUNS the whole shebang and if you are only dealing with ONE entity things get simplified lot.
Right before college, I went to stay with my "best" friend who decided to give me the ".... in the drink" experience which I happened to not be partial to. So I was awake, oh10 days to a week, at night, reading Lovecraft and that type of stuff I even asked my mom if you could die from lack of sleep. She laughed at me. Cat study.
But my point is, I went to an ER, I waited about 20 minutes (in a bed) a very nice doc came in and "treated me" and then as I walked out they handed me my meds. No paper work, no copays, nothing. I kept saying "But I'm not from here shouldn't I pay?" And they waved me away charmingly and it was THE BEST ER experience I have ever had.
There really was Very little paperwork at all. Perhaps things have changed. But the very idea of "government insurance" sort of means.... One entity and NOT private businesses, as I understand them.
NO one in the US actually wants this, mainly due to corruption. Do you KNOW how big of a "we will compete for the lowest drug/treatment/etc. prices that is (if you do it fairly? EVEN JUST BEING FAIR?) Etc. That is where efficiency would come in to pay for the healthcare, and it becomes EFFICIENT care.
There are those who would say waits and honestly I don't want Britain's healthcare system. They are a bit medieval about mental illness it would not work for me.
But there IS NO way to keep all the current players and well, make "government healthcare." Obama proved that QUITE nicely, it's COMPLETELY unaffordable.
Anna
Right before college, I went to stay with my "best" friend who decided to give me the ".... in the drink" experience which I happened to not be partial to. So I was awake, oh10 days to a week, at night, reading Lovecraft and that type of stuff I even asked my mom if you could die from lack of sleep. She laughed at me. Cat study.
But my point is, I went to an ER, I waited about 20 minutes (in a bed) a very nice doc came in and "treated me" and then as I walked out they handed me my meds. No paper work, no copays, nothing. I kept saying "But I'm not from here shouldn't I pay?" And they waved me away charmingly and it was THE BEST ER experience I have ever had.
There really was Very little paperwork at all. Perhaps things have changed. But the very idea of "government insurance" sort of means.... One entity and NOT private businesses, as I understand them.
NO one in the US actually wants this, mainly due to corruption. Do you KNOW how big of a "we will compete for the lowest drug/treatment/etc. prices that is (if you do it fairly? EVEN JUST BEING FAIR?) Etc. That is where efficiency would come in to pay for the healthcare, and it becomes EFFICIENT care.
There are those who would say waits and honestly I don't want Britain's healthcare system. They are a bit medieval about mental illness it would not work for me.
But there IS NO way to keep all the current players and well, make "government healthcare." Obama proved that QUITE nicely, it's COMPLETELY unaffordable.
Anna
Well, this thread has officially gone off the rails.
This is not about Republicans vs. Democrats. It's not about Trump vs. Obama. It's not about plastic bags or health care.
My apologies to the vapers of the state of Arkansas (and any other state that follows Arkansas' lead should they pass this), but I'm gonna shut it down...
@Opinionated could you close this thread or refer it over to another mod that could?
This is not about Republicans vs. Democrats. It's not about Trump vs. Obama. It's not about plastic bags or health care.
My apologies to the vapers of the state of Arkansas (and any other state that follows Arkansas' lead should they pass this), but I'm gonna shut it down...
@Opinionated could you close this thread or refer it over to another mod that could?
Truly amazing. Yet another thread about politics and fewer and fewer about vaping.
In before the close.
@Shawn Hoefer I reported it for you.
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You're kidding, right? What do you think the war on vaping is. Bans are PURELY political. Oh, wait...
I question the agenda of any forum that bans ALL political conversation. This isn't a Masonic Lodge, last I checked. The MSM use to leave online content open to comments, until conservatives began exposing their daily doses of collectivist propaganda. The solution? Close the comment section!
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Yes, bans are political. But when discussing the politics of vaping I think we can do it with at least a minimal amount of partisanship.
We can talk like adults about the politics that pertain to us, or we can go too far down rabbit holes - and honestly it isn't pleasant when we do.
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