Atomizer temperatures unreasonably high

[Chriskarr]

So, I found information that supports that it takes ~120 calories to heat one gram of propylene glycol around boiling. I then found there were 8.8ml per gram of propylene glycol = 120c/8.8ml = 13.6364 calories per milliliter. I then further reduced it to the ~20-drop-per-ml estimate and found 0.6818 calories were required to heat one drop of PG to boiling. One calorie equals 4.184 Joules, which is proportional to wattage over time. So, 0.6818*4.184 = 2.85J/drop.

So, in theory, to vaporize 100% of a drop in one second, we should only need a bit over 2.85W, whereas some units run at as many as nine watts and still don't vaporize a whole drop in one second.


This is another concern of mine - our atomizers' casings are absorbing the heat which would otherwise vaporize the liquid. This is, of course, mostly due to the ceramic cups and metal mesh, which are integral parts of non-tank atomizers.

If one could thermally isolate and regulate the coil while still reliably delivering fluid (as is kinda' done with Genesis models), battery life would extend, coil life would extend and juice would go further since none would be burnt.

Thoughts?

 

[zoiDman]

Chriskarr, what you say makes sense. I'm having trouble reconciling the temperatures reported in the above linked thread (especially the one where the temperature was measured directly via probe rather than infrared). Those don't seem near high enough to reach boiling.

Entirely possible I'm missing something obvious though - not exactly my area of expertise! Very interested in the answer to your question, though.

Could it be that the Vapor Temperature is Lower than the Boiling Point?

Water Boils at 212F. But when I hose down my patio on a Hot Day like today, all the Water is gone in about 30 Minutes.

I thought I read somewhere that VG Vaporizes at 140F. But I could be wrong.

 

[Cloud Wizard]

So, I found information that supports that it takes ~120 calories to heat one gram of propylene glycol around boiling. I then found there were 8.8ml per gram of propylene glycol = 120c/8.8ml = 13.6364 calories per milliliter. I then further reduced it to the ~20-drop-per-ml estimate and found 0.6818 calories were required to heat one drop of PG to boiling. One calorie equals 4.184 Joules, which is proportional to wattage over time. So, 0.6818*4.184 = 2.85J/drop.

So, in theory, to vaporize 100% of a drop in one second, we should only need a bit over 2.85W, whereas some units run at as many as nine watts and still don't vaporize a whole drop in one second.


This is another concern of mine - our atomizers' casings are absorbing the heat which would otherwise vaporize the liquid. This is, of course, mostly due to the ceramic cups and metal mesh, which are integral parts of non-tank atomizers.

If one could thermally isolate and regulate the coil while still reliably delivering fluid (as is kinda' done with Genesis models), battery life would extend, coil life would extend and juice would go further since none would be burnt.

Thoughts?

Great logic. Most folks I know run gennies anywhere from 10-20 watts (they tend to be juice pigs but really taste yummy).

 

[Chriskarr]

Could it be that the Vapor Temperature is Lower than the Boiling Point?

Water Boils at 212F. But when I hose down my patio on a Hot Day like today, all the Water is gone in about 30 Minutes.

I thought I read somewhere that VG Vaporizes at 140F. But I could be wrong.

It would take an arid environment or a large amount of airflow to evaporate any real amount of fluid from an atomizer, especially considering the size of the air holes in most designs. Even at temperatures approaching 100ºF we shouldn't see enough airflow to notice any significant difference. In my (very limited) experience, even when I drip and hold my KGO in my pocket for hours, the liquid still feels throaty and has a fair amount of nicotine (non-noticeable difference). Carts, however, might be a bit more susceptible, it seems.

I would like to focus on making a design which limits the heat which the liquid reaches, while also maintaining efficient wicking and juice usage. Specifically, I want to use stainless steel wick or glass-tube capillaries. I recently took apart a thermometer, scored the glass, snapped both sides and rinsed it out. Lo- and behold, it sucked up about a half drop of juice. I thought about how everyone raves about the cleanliness of stainless, and I thought about how much more everyone raves about the cleanliness of real glass.

If one could direct airflow at a shallow angle across a diagonal cut in a piece of glass tube which had neutral resistance to wicking juice, one would get a 'Venturi' which would lower pressure outside the tube. The higher pressure inside the tube would then eject more liquid whilst replenishing the tube from a vented juice tank.

Just my thought on a possible switchup on traditional atomizer design. I'll see if it works soon.

 

[DC2]

If one could direct airflow at a shallow angle across a diagonal cut in a piece of glass tube which had neutral resistance to wicking juice, one would get a 'Venturi' which would lower pressure outside the tube. The higher pressure inside the tube would then eject more liquid whilst replenishing the tube from a vented juice tank.

That sounds ideal, and would eliminate so many current issues...
--It would always wick properly without getting clogged
--It would be easy to clean
--It would be easy to switch flavors
--It would eliminate the concerns over wicking materials
--It would leave the flavors unadulterated

The only issue I see is the potential need for different sized glass tubes depending on juice thickness.
So it would be nice if you could buy different sizes.

 

[haze256]

That sounds ideal, and would eliminate so many current issues...
--It would always wick properly without getting clogged
--It would be easy to clean
--It would be easy to switch flavors
--It would eliminate the concerns over wicking materials
--It would leave the flavors unadulterated

The only issue I see is the potential need for different sized glass tubes depending on juice thickness.
So it would be nice if you could buy different sizes.

Or even better, a modular vent setup, similar to a variable turbo charger using a small cone apparatus on the bottom of the device, ill try to draw something up in paint

 

[haze256]

and then make the whole thing in seperate cylindrical peices so that they can be removed and replaced if needed

 

[Chriskarr]

Any luck with the drawing?

 

[haze256]

Any luck with the drawing?

Procrastination at its finest, working on it as we speak, lol

 

[haze256]

here ya go

im no picasso, but it is something

 

[AttyPops]

I tried something like this a couple years ago when I was new. Never got it to work though. Glass was too much of an insulator. There's posts in the modder's area. Tired it with electrically isolated metal needle too...but couldn't get that to isolate well and not insulate.

Is this theoretical or is it working? Did you manage to get it to work? If working, does it plug up quickly?

 

[haze256]

from what I understand its all theoretical, but we are working to make it real

 

[Chriskarr]

This is currently a theoretical design, but it should never plug up, unless the juice is leaving behind sediment or the chamber is clogged with environmental pickup. The reason for this is that the design calls for forced air flow to move the juice over glass capillaries and - after physically departing the capillaries - only then is the juice heated, unless a low-power preheating system is employed to ensure proper juice consistency. The great thing about the design is that the pressure of the air moving over the capillaries will force the drop size down and help to 'pre-atomize' the liquid by making it disperse evenly throughout the air.