Atomizers 2.0 w/ Video!

[WitchWay]

Now that I'm figuring out how much foam to stuff into an 801 cart, I'll definitely be taking this thing out in public! I just stuffed my first cart with foam today. Had to trim it down a little from my first attempt, but its working well now. I still have a little fine tuning to do, but once done, the LR801 could very easily be my std setup. Foam filler is looking like the answer for me.

But if I were a dripper, those shorty LR801s would be the cat's meow!

Oh cool VM!!! I'm so glad you got them working for you!!! I did find more of those carts if you ever need more

 

[Switched]

Perhaps I should explain reasons for my previous suggestions.

From what I understand, the bridge above the coil in the atty does two things: #1. It protects the filler material in the cart from reaching the coil and being burned by it and #2. It enables the liquid from the cart to get down to the atty. Since that is the extent of it's functionality, it seems that it is not a necessary component for those who drip exclusively.

Of course, it is absolutely necessary to have the bridge in the atty if using carts and all atties are designed with that in mind, however, we are talking about a "new" atty which has been created/modified and should be used only by those who drip exclusively and should never be purchased or used by those who prefer using carts anyways. I agree with Switched that many people vape in excess and abuse their atties but this would not be "some quirky innecessary modification to our shortfalls" since those who don't know how to vape and/or drip properly will not be affected by this design no matter what. Those who haven't mastered the art of vaping and dripping will keep on flooding their atties or letting them get too dry regardless of the bridge and its presence.

If there is some technical reason why the bridge needs to be there even for those who don't use carts, if atties with a bridge perform better for some reason even for those who only drip, please let me know. If not, why pay more money to intentionally add a component that doesn't need to be there. The bridge has to be placed it the atty by something or someone and there is a cost associated with that process. One could speculate that the cost per atty could go down if it was less labor intensive.

I understand that there are many people who like their atties just the way they are. But I also know that many people take the bridge out of their brand new atty before they ever use it. Since Isaac is in the rebuilding-atty-from-ground-up mode, I just thought he should consider it and make his decision after researching all the reasons on why or why not.

In my opinion it is cruise control, only feeding the cup as required rather than semi flooding it. The head pressure from liquid in the cup acting against the fluid in the metal mesh keeping it suspended until it is needed to keep the atty and wick "properly moistened" delivering extra liquid only when needed. I believe WWay allures to this in her post (later on) as well.

 

[MaxUT]

Foam filler is looking like the answer for me.

I've been using the AquaClear foam for some time now and it works well. Gave up on the blue foam because it seemed to have an off taste.

What kind of foam are you using?

 

[Vaporologist]

It's hard to explain and it's a personal preference, there are a lot of people that swear by it. I think Thy does it and likes it. It just seemed more harsh to me. The juice didn't always seem totally vaporized and it changed the flavor. There was more vapor over all, but it just didn't feel or taste right. I did a couple different brands of 510s and a 801 and a 302. It wasn't for me. Once it's out you can't put it back in. I believe it started when there was a rash of 510s that the material on the bridge was burning and I'm sure removing it made it better in that regard.

The shorter tube on the mini will give warmer vapor as is also. Ok just my YMMV give it a try

In my opinion it is cruise control, only feeding the cup as required rather than semi flooding it. The head pressure from liquid in the cup acting against the fluid in the metal mesh keeping it suspended until it is needed to keep the atty and wick "properly moistened" delivering extra liquid only when needed. I believe WWay allures to this in her post (later on) as well.

Well, I gave it a try and here's my experience.

I took my old standard 510 atty which came with my Tornego set back in February, dry burned it and used it at 3.7V with a Ttip and 555 80/20% juice for about 1 hr without making any modifications. I wanted to get used to the way the atty feels since it's been a while since I've used it. After one hour I successfully removed the bridge and used it for the next 4 hrs.

After removing the bridge, there was a noticeable increase in the warmth of vapor which some people may enjoy more than others. I did noticed a slight increase in vapor production but I it was the increase in heat that really caught my attention. My guess would be that the bridge also acts as a heat shield to some extent. I did like the increase in heat very much since warmer vapor is one of the reasons why so many of us like HV vaping.

The juice tasted a little bit different but not too much during this experiment. I can see how some juices would taste differently while vaping at cooler temps vs. higher temps.

Now, here's something really interesting. While using the atty with the bridge still in, I never had it run dry and give that nasty burnt taste. There was always that warning puff where the taste changes ever so slightly letting you know to add a couple of drops. However, without the bridge, there wasn't any warning. I would go from 4-5 tasty drags to suddenly getting a nasty burnt taste without being able to anticipate it. Who knows, maybe the bridge does provide a certain amount of "cruise control". I would love to see what would the tech guys from SLB say about this. Until then I'll do a little more experimenting with 801s and 901s.

Thank you both for sharing your wisdom.

 

[WitchWay]

I've been using the AquaClear foam for some time now and it works well. Gave up on the blue foam because it seemed to have an off taste.

What kind of foam are you using?

I too found the blue foam had a little bit of off taste to it. I took it and scrubbed it with used coffee grounds and water, then rinsed and rinsed and rinsed, let it dry and no more off taste.

Well, I gave it a try and here's my experience.

I took my old standard 510 atty which came with my Tornego set back in February, dry burned it and used it at 3.7V with a Ttip and 555 80/20% juice for about 1 hr without making any modifications. I wanted to get used to the way the atty feels since it's been a while since I've used it. After one hour I successfully removed the bridge and used it for the next 4 hrs.

After removing the bridge, there was a noticeable increase in the warmth of vapor which some people may enjoy more than others. I did noticed a slight increase in vapor production but I it was the increase in heat that really caught my attention. My guess would be that the bridge also acts as a heat shield to some extent. I did like the increase in heat very much since warmer vapor is one of the reasons why so many of us like HV vaping.

The juice tasted a little bit different but not too much during this experiment. I can see how some juices would taste differently while vaping at cooler temps vs. higher temps.

Now, here's something really interesting. While using the atty with the bridge still in, I never had it run dry and give that nasty burnt taste. There was always that warning puff where the taste changes ever so slightly letting you know to add a couple of drops. However, without the bridge, there wasn't any warning. I would go from 4-5 tasty drags to suddenly getting a nasty burnt taste without being able to anticipate it. Who knows, maybe the bridge does provide a certain amount of "cruise control". I would love to see what would the tech guys from SLB say about this. Until then I'll do a little more experimenting with 801s and 901s.

Thank you both for sharing your wisdom.

Thank you for sharing your results!! Keep us posted as you try it more.

 

[Switched]

*SNIP

After removing the bridge, there was a noticeable increase in the warmth of vapor which some people may enjoy more than others. I did noticed a slight increase in vapor production but I it was the increase in heat that really caught my attention. My guess would be that the bridge also acts as a heat shield to some extent.

... and that would be an accurate observation.

Now, here's something really interesting. While using the atty with the bridge still in, I never had it run dry and give that nasty burnt taste. There was always that warning puff where the taste changes ever so slightly letting you know to add a couple of drops. However, without the bridge, there wasn't any warning. I would go from 4-5 tasty drags to suddenly getting a nasty burnt taste without being able to anticipate it. Who knows, maybe the bridge does provide a certain amount of "cruise control". I would love to see what would the tech guys from SLB say about this. Until then I'll do a little more experimenting with 801s and 901s.

Thank you both for sharing your wisdom.

... and that is more likely due to the metal mesh which holds anywhere from 4-5 drops of liquid, whilst the ceramic cup itself only holds a couple.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with us. Some very valid observations have been brought forward to help us understand a little bit more what transpires in the engine.

Back to my original post to Isaac answering his questions, it was more along the lines of those who want to modify/tweak please feel free to do so. Should we get them manufactured this way? My answer was obviously no. Not because I think it is bogus or anything else, just that things have gotten out of hand so to speak, and where does it stop. To try and elaborate on what I am trying to say:

• with the plethora of atomiser resistances out there (1.5, 2, 2.2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5, 5.2), Boge, SLB, JoyE and the Janty "JoyE" combined with the various battery options, not to mention different atomiser models, and now an 801 mini (which is a welcomed addition (read length), I am sure their is enough choice out there to meet even the most critical of palates;
• with all the different battery options and voltages, to include but not limited to high drain batteries, once again I am sure that a sweet spot can be achieved especially with the vary volt models; and
• cartomisers there seems to be a least 4-6 different types of 510 cartomisers of which only a couple are any good according to reviews, the same is happening with the KR8s, which at present time are falling off the map so to speak with the introduction of the 510 carto, not to mention the "high" coil cartomisers, both in 510 and KR8 models.

With the aforementioned observations, how does one make an educated decision on which one to buy, let alone how does one ensure that what he/she has ordered will be what he/she actually receives.

IMHO it starting to get utterly ridiculous trying to navigate through this "sea" of choices, especially when the "knock off" pale in performance over the parent product.

I believe with the wide range of presently available attys 510, 801, 901, 302, 306s etc... not to mention the large resistance variance that we have sufficient choice to fine tune our vaping experience for even the most discerning vapers.

Where does it stop?

The next thing to hit the street in line with the mini 801 will the a cart for the mini 801.

... and if all this is not sufficient to meet vaping styles, matching juices with specific wattage, then there is always the Buzzkill which wil permit even the most discerning individual to dial in atty X to 4.1726 volts, for that ultimate vaping experience.

 

[Iken]

Extremely interesting topic here.
Does anyone know the life expectancy after the procedure is done. We all know one of the main purposes of the bridge is to deliver liquid to the wick. I generally use that to an advantage by placing the actual plastic dripper of the bottle on to the bridge with slight pressure to physically inject the liquid into it. The guys over at Tasty Vapor has the perfect bottles for the routine. Without using the mentioned routine or not having an atom that has metal washer in place, I found just letting the liquid run down the inner walls to preform perfectly. Removing the bridge and wick would sound logical if both components were charred or if a drip tip was desired. (Imo, drip tips aren't aimed in the right position). I see the procedure being best as secondary alternative for any reasoning, but have to agree on not mass producing them.

For mass production of these modified/incomplete atomizers maybe slightly cheaper to make, however they seem to be unstable and will cost heavily in the long run. As I hear it, a few too many drops in the wrong place could short out the atom rendering it permanently unusable, has that notion been confirmed?

 

[Switched]

As I hear it, a few too many drops in the wrong place could short out the atom rendering it permanently unusable, has that notion been confirmed?

I can't see that happening as the wires with the exception of the coil are totally insulated inside both JoyE 510s and an RN4075 which I performed autopsies on to make myself a testing harness. Unless a part of the remnant metal wicking mesh comes into contact with the coil, then it could possibly short it out.

 

[Vaporologist]

... and that is more likely due to the metal mesh which holds anywhere from 4-5 drops of liquid, whilst the ceramic cup itself only holds a couple...

That's the part that really puzzled me since I didn't actually remove all the metal mesh, just the bridge and a little bit of mesh that's on it. Everything under and around the cup was still in tact. There is very little mesh on top of the bridge and it's there to simply transport juice from the cart to the atty. I never messed with the engine, I just removed the fuel line and replaced it with direct dripping. And just to clarify, I'm not posting this to prove a point, I'm simply trying to understand why it works the way it does and how it could be better.

Back to my original post to Isaac answering his questions, it was more along the lines of those who want to modify/tweak please feel free to do so. Should we get them manufactured this way? My answer was obviously no. Not because I think it is bogus or anything else, just that things have gotten out of hand so to speak, and where does it stop...

I would agree with this only if there isn't a large enough market to support this modified product. Pulling the bridge out is risky and can result in a permanent damaged of the atty. Not putting the bridge in there to begin with holds no risk and might reduce mfg costs. If there is a large percentage of vapers who perform this surgery on their atties and would rather purchase atties without the bridge, it's worth considering. If not, than no.

...IMHO it starting to get utterly ridiculous trying to navigate through this "sea" of choices, especially when the "knock off" pale in performance over the parent product.

I believe with the wide range of presently available attys 510, 801, 901, 302, 306s etc... not to mention the large resistance variance that we have sufficient choice to fine tune our vaping experience for even the most discerning vapers.

Where does it stop?

The next thing to hit the street in line with the mini 801 will the a cart for the mini 801...

This seems to be the only area where we have different points of view. I agree that there are so many options that anyone should be able to fine tune their vaping experience with what's already available. That could have been true a few months back as well before 2.0 atties were introduced. The reason why new stuff keeps on coming aboard is not because what we have is not good but because it can be better and hopefully more cost effective. So, where does it stop? It doesn't and IMO it shouldn't. But it should be categorized properly making it simpler to navigate and here's what I mean.

Everyone who vapes falls in one of the two unofficial categories:
1. Drippers and
2. Non-drippers. (carts, cartomizers, wetbox...)

Regardless if it's a 510, 801, 901, LR, HV, XHV... shouldn't equipment (including atties) be built and fine-tunned according to the needs of customers in each category? If you drip exclusively, you buy modified "dripping atties" and equipment. If not, you don't just as you wouldn't buy Ttips if you don't drip.

Maybe there isn't a need for such product as there may not be a large enough customer base to justify it. And maybe modifying an atty in this manner would simply not make sense if having the bridge is necessary for optimum performance. I just wanted to bring it to the table and see if it's worth further discussions and exploration.

 

[WitchWay]

I can't say how long they last. The attys I did it to were already used and when I didn't like the bridge out, I tossed the attys.

I agree that the choices are getting crazy. And it's even worse if you are like me and are compulsive about trying everything that comes out. The funny thing is, I keep coming back to the same 3 attys/cartos. I like the LR 2.0 801 on the Chameleon or a SLB 510 carto, on my Buzz I want a 302 atty and on the LPVs I want the SLB cartos. I will try the mini 2.0 801 when Isaac gets them, but I expect it to be very similar to it's big brother, just shorter. Since the mini 801 is for drippers I sure hope they don't come out with a cart for it LOL.

Even through I stray and shop other places, when it comes down to it, Isaac and Val are the ones that have the things I like, with the exception of the 302 attys. Moral of the story... there's no place like home

Thank you to Switched and Vaporologist for their time to give us such an in depth look at this topic. I love when science is fun


Happy Vaping!!!

 

[Vaporologist]

Sorry Isaac, I didn't see you post above which may have already answered some of the questions

 

[WitchWay]

Vapor you had a great point with the fact that the only part of the wicking mesh that is removed it the top part. The part that goes all under the atty coil is still there. There are also some people that only removed the mesh from the bridge itself, which was what was burning and left the bridge in. Kind of a compromise between the two. I never tried that method, of course I wasn't doing it because of the mesh burning either.

No offense to those that like the bridge out. We all have different tastes. I do believe from watching all over the forum that it is a small percentage of people that even do it at this point. It does not appear to be main stream or any where close. The matter still goes back to you can always take it out, but you can't put it in if they are made without the bridge in the first place. I guess if it does come to be a high demand need, they will do what the did with the high bridge vs the low bridge and make two models, one with the bridge and one without

As for being cheaper to make... the amount of material not used would be less than 1 cent saved during manufacturing and labor isn't going to be much more since the Chinese do not pay much labor in the first place. The manufacturer may even charge more in the end since it is a drastic change in the manufacturing process.

Ok there's my worth


Happy Vaping!!

 

[Vaporologist]

No offense to those that like the bridge out. We all have different tastes. I do believe from watching all over the forum that it is a small percentage of people that even do it at this point. It does not appear to be main stream or any where close. The matter still goes back to you can always take it out, but you can't put it in if they are made without the bridge in the first place. I guess if it does come to be a high demand need, they will do what the did with the high bridge vs the low bridge and make two models, one with the bridge and one without

Thank you for that info. That's one thing that I've been questioning and didn't know and didn't have time to research. If that's a fact, then the last four pages of this thread are almost useless and I apologize for waisting anyones time.

As for being cheaper to make... the amount of material not used would be less than 1 cent saved during manufacturing and labor isn't going to be much more since the Chinese do not pay much labor in the first place. The manufacturer may even charge more in the end since it is a drastic change in the manufacturing process.

Ok there's my worth

I didn't exactly look at it that way but that does makes sense. I appreciate all your input. And Happy Vaping 2 U 2!

 

[WitchWay]

Thank you for that info. That's one thing that I've been questioning and didn't know and didn't have time to research. If that's a fact, then the last four pages of this thread are almost useless and I apologize for waisting anyones time.



I didn't exactly look at it that way but that does makes sense. I appreciate all your input. And Happy Vaping 2 U 2!

I don't think you have wasted anyones time, nor should you apologize for such. It's been a very interesting and informative discussion! It's still a fairly new modification. It may go more main stream as more learn about it. The ones who like it may turn out to be the majority in the end. Only time will tell

This is what forums are about, discussing anything and everything. It is never a waste of time to discuss and learn new things

 

[Iken]

Wasting time?? No no no, your not wasting anyone's time! This is a great conversation iep (in everyone's opinion!) lol going to start a trend.
I swear Vman, I heard music playing in the background during your big post on page 11. Just laid on a big smile to the point of considering asking if it can be done. Low or high demand, it is another alternative and in a way thats what our world is all about. I wouldn't be surprised to see another supplier with a package full of these in transit right now, just cause. I am just concerned about the atomizer's life line. I'll ask about them tonight when our friends wake up.



Ps. If i were to pick a side, I would say both perspectives are both correct. But there is no side to pick because none of these posts should be taken in an argumentative sense. It is a discussion. Please, if anyone feels to have a say or anything on the mater, don't be afraid to chime in. All opinions are happily welcomed.

 

[Swipple]

Isaac, when are you expecting more LR 901's?

 

[Switched]

I'm not against innovation, without it we would all still be smoking now wouldn't we? Perhaps a better point to raise would be:

Where to draw the line in the sand?

When I see what is happening at times I just shake my head in total confusion and frustration. Maybe the latter is due to a lack of one of 'em 3999 chemicals I am not getting. How knows?

It's not so much about choice, but more on where to secure a performing quality product consistently, and 3-6 months from now that I am interested in, and worried about.

 

[VaporMadness]

I've been using the AquaClear foam for some time now and it works well. Gave up on the blue foam because it seemed to have an off taste.

What kind of foam are you using?

Wow, busy thread, almost missed this question for me.

I use the blue foam (marine land rite size U stuff) for the 401, 901, and 510. It does have an off taste, but that can be taken care of with boiling water and some patience. After boiling (couple of minutes), rinsing, soaking (several hours) in filtered water, no more tainted flavor. Actually I run it thru the boil, rinse, soak cycle a few times, until the water its soaking in tastes good to drink.

But the blue foam sleeves are too thin for the 801, so I picked up a block of a foam filter product made by Hagen. It's black and has a similar cell structure as the blue foam (slightly larger cells).

Hagen Elite Mini Underwater Filter Foam at PETCO

I boiled, rinsed, soaked this stuff too. I cut a rectangular block out that is...
- not as long as the cart is deep
- nearly equal width to the cart opening in one dimension (about 8 or 9 mm)
- somewhat wider in the other dimension (about 14 mm)

It's in the cart now, so those aren't exactly measurements, but you get the shape of it. I choose that shape because that's the basic shape of the blue foam bits that work well in the 901,510 carts... but scaled up for the 801. I compress it along one dimension to insert it into the cart. The black Hagen foam is working reasonably well. I'm having some issues with the LR801 atty running too hot more than the foam not wicking reasonably at this point.

I saw the AquaClear foam (its white'ish), but decided to get a foam with a smaller cell structure that is closer to what the blue foam looks like (since it works so well with all of my other carts).

Really my answer to the "vaping preference" thread should have been, whichever pairing of atty and battery MOD happens to be working the best of my current collection of stuff on any given day. Today, its a LR901 (running less hot than the LR801, and not having wicking issues like my 2nd LR510 (the first is solely underperforming now unless I throw it on the 5v passthru)) on my backup 16340 MOD (which is not having voltage drop issues like my Chameleon is (i think I need a new switch)).

 

[WitchWay]

Switched I have to say thank you to you once again. You helped me and didn't even know it I know we talked about juices that are too thick. And I got some FA flavors and stuff and have been playing. Shortly after this my pen style attys started tasting dry quicker than normal and when I would add more juice they leaked. Well when you wrote yesterday about the viscosity of juices and leaking addys that old light bulb turned on in my head. So today I thinned the juice out slightly and wow no more leaking!

So thank you for your help!!!

Took 10 days for Capella to send the Irish Cream flavor, but I did finally get it yesterday and I made up a small sample of the Buttery Nipple. It's sitting and I'll give it a test tomorrow to see if I got any where close to yours.


Happy Vaping!!

 

[WitchWay]

(i think I need a new switch)).

If you are planning on changing it yourself don't buy any! I have a bunch LOL I got 10 of the ones Isaac suggested and they do work, but the stem is a bit too short for me. I can see why Isaac likes them better, lessens the chance for a misfire in the pocket, but I don't carry mine in my pocket. Today I ordered the ones I believe to be the exact ones originally on the Chameleon. 15 of those for $3 shipped. Hopefully they will be here in three days. I'll send you 1 of each if you are going to change it yourself. Let me know.


Happy Vaping!!