Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[samcm010]

Sorry, I'm not into buying used stuff (only cars) and I'm not trying to be rude but I'm kinda paranoid about getting stuff from non reputable dealers ("classifieds") and stuff from eBay claiming to be "authentic". I just moved to Wisconsin and there's not a lot of vape shops here and the ones that are around only sell $90 panzer clones and and $160 IPV2's. Thanks for the offer though. Hope you can sell the chi.

That is understandable and I was not trying to sell the Chi on this thread just using as an example. On the topic of buying from someone reputable there are many many sellers on the classifieds here who have multiple positive feedback that prove a pretty reputable status.

 

[Kendogalopigus]

Nobody. I don't think there really can be a winner when it comes to this. BUT we clone buyers are gutter scum and the people who buy authentics are the saviors of the American working man and will walk with Jesus when their time comes.

HAHA omg i haven't laughed that hard in a while

 

[samcm010]

Nobody. I don't think there really can be a winner when it comes to this. BUT we clone buyers are gutter scum and the people who buy authentics are the saviors of the American working man and will walk with Jesus when their time comes.

Circa you love to wear the Martyr hat! I have been on this thread forever and I still have yet to read where anyone has accused clone buyers of being gutter scum.

 

[Kendogalopigus]

Circa you love to wear the Martyr hat! I have been on this thread forever and I still have yet to read where anyone has accused clone buyers of being gutter scum.

i think the term used was actually "scum bags" i could be wrong but yes early on we were called that and i think lowlifes was mentioned somewhere too.

 

[samcm010]

Or anything even close to gutter scum in case you argue those words were not used exactly

 

[TheJakeBailey]

Nobody. I don't think there really can be a winner when it comes to this. BUT we clone buyers are gutter scum and the people who buy authentics are the saviors of the American working man and will walk with Jesus when their time comes.

It was a rhetorical question.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Here's what I'm talking about --- perhaps one could call it the attorney's opinion? It is how the US law is being enforced. Joker's post about this specific ECF rule on selling counterfeits was not "just opinion".

http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/28/the-legality-of-buying-knockoffs/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Here's the post I quoted and responded to:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...c-makers-sueing-cloners-100.html#post14216509

That didnt really answer it though.. If I buy something that I know is a counterfeit/clone/knockoff and try to resell it as the real thing, that could and most likely is, illegal. If I sell it as a counterfeit/clone/knockoff, then its not.

What I was responding to in the post you quoted, was the opinion of ECF. And, that ECF has every right to post their opinion and make the rule since its a private forum.

 

[retird]

hum..... the landscape just changed..... One of the biggest challenges for US companies wanting to protect their patents, trademarks, and copyrights has been that they couldn't enforce the US laws against the Chinese clone/counterfeit scum-bags.....

Alibaba is now a public traded company in the US and now subject to US laws.....going to be interesting.....

(noted that this is a pro-clone thread so please attack the message..... not the messenger......)

Circa you love to wear the Martyr hat! I have been on this thread forever and I still have yet to read where anyone has accused clone buyers of being gutter scum.

i think the term used was actually "scum bags" i could be wrong but yes early on we were called that and i think lowlifes was mentioned somewhere too.

Or anything even close to gutter scum in case you argue those words were not used exactly

The first quote is where scum bag was referenced.... the reference was to the china mod makers..... not those buying them.... but somehow it morphed into a different connotation....

 

[samcm010]

i think the term used was actually "scum bags" i could be wrong but yes early on we were called that and i think lowlifes was mentioned somewhere too.

Well than I stand corrected as I must have missed those posts but I certainly think the majority of the people on both sides (with exceptions) have been pretty respectful on here and any that have not should be discounted. To say that the Anti Clone crowd on this thread has been elitist or have overwhelmingly accused the pro clone side of being scum bags is not accurate nor helpful

 

[Midniteoyl]

there are authentics that cheap. beyond vape has the beacon for $65 and infinite has the CLT atty for $40 full authentic setup for $105.

there are other mods for below $100 too that have been linked several times over, only one i can remember the name of was the colonial by mad industries and thats only cause im thinking of getting one lol.

here ya go.. ongoing list of $100 or less ... http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/604037-list-mods-100-less-not-clone.html

 

[Kendogalopigus]

Well than I stand corrected as I must have missed those posts but I certainly think the majority of the people on both sides (with exceptions) have been pretty respectful on here and any that have not should be discounted. To say that the Anti Clone crowd on this thread has been elitist or have overwhelmingly accused the pro clone side of being scum bags is not accurate nor helpful

yea for the most part everyone has been very respectful, and has kept the conversation constructive.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Nobody. I don't think there really can be a winner when it comes to this. BUT we clone buyers are gutter scum and the people who buy authentics are the saviors of the American working man and will walk with Jesus when their time comes.

Jesus died, he isn't going to ever walk again, ever.

Otherwise good post, accurate enough.

Maurice

 

[samcm010]

here ya go.. ongoing list of $100 or less ... http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/604037-list-mods-100-less-not-clone.html

Now see for anyone who said this thread should be closed as it is producing nothing new or relevant this is really great! I would add that there are dozens of Authentic Mods for under $100 on the classifieds as well. Thank you Ed_c and Midniteoyl very helpful for everyone!

 

[retird]

Well than I stand corrected as I must have missed those posts but I certainly think the majority of the people on both sides (with exceptions) have been pretty respectful on here and any that have not should be discounted. To say that the Anti Clone crowd on this thread has been elitist or have overwhelmingly accused the pro clone side of being scum bags is not accurate nor helpful

No you didn't miss posts.... the term has been miss-quoted and taken out of context.... see post 1048

 

[Circa Survivor]

Jesus died, he isn't going to ever walk again, ever.

Otherwise good post, accurate enough.

Maurice

Judging from your insane elitism your response is what I would have expected.

 

[samcm010]

No you didn't miss posts.... the term has been miss-quoted and taken out of context.... see post 1048

yup I saw after I posted as it came in as I was typing post.

 

[Coldrake]

@Coldrake, i wonder does china recognize this?

Copyrights yes, the others I don't know.

i already revisited 2 topics beaten to death im not doing it a third time, please go back an read,

I've read every word of this thread. Trust me, once is enough!

while the copyright/trademark/patent thing may be automatic here

Patents aren't automatic here, only copyrights and trademarks.

it is not in china

China signed the Berne Convention, along with 164 other countries, so China does recognize copyright.

and customs will do nothing to stop the import of clones.

We'll have to wait and see.

OK, which mod manufacturer has copyright protection?

None that I know of. Why would they?

Copyright protection includes "Derivative works". That's why I can't write a "Star Wars" novel and publish it. Copyright protection does not apply to mods, heads, etc. You can quote ad infinitum about the rights granted under copyright protection, but it's a waste of space here, it doesn't apply. You can only copyright creative works.

From wikipedia:
A creative work is a manifestation of creative effort such as artwork, literature, music, and paintings.
Creative works have in common a degree of arbitrariness, such that it is improbable that two people would independently create the same work.


If copyright would apply, I would copyright human DNA, and charge a royalty from every living person on the planet, since they are all "derivative works". Or copyright my own DNA and claim that every other human being on the planet is using my copyrighted material without authorization.

I understand copyright very well.

So STOP with the copyright BS already. Trademark is the ONLY defensible protection.

It's not BS. I wasn't applying copyright to mods, RBAs, clones, or whatever. I was simply correcting Marc411's statement that trademarks and copyrights aren't automatic.

Patents are also defensible within the U.S. through other means such as confiscating goods through customs.

Damn you could have spelled my name right.

I have done my research and I have registered for trademark because without it is virtually impossible to litigate. I'm speaking from personal experience. Hopefully we have an attorney here that vapes to jump into the conversation.


The owner of a registration is responsible for bringing any legal action to stop a party from using an infringing mark.

This is key if you want to go into litigation and I believe if you check all attorneys will recommended registration prior to any type of enforcement.


So here's what I will end with, good luck to any small operator attempting to prosecute if the trademark has not been specified and the products aren't registered.

I wasn't talking about litigation. You said trademark and copyright require registration, and as I've shown, they don't. That's all my response to you was about.

And it's Marc, with a C

Sorry about the k. 'k? You can call me Koldrake if you like. ;-)

 

[Midniteoyl]

Best post of the entire thread!

Not really... its been said before.. By me and others. It was nothing new.


The problem they have is proving the copyright and trademarks before the government will do anything.

In the case of a trademark, it must be registered to have Customs stop the importation.

Copyright will have to be proven, in court, before damages are awarded, and that can be done.

While there are 'protections' in place, its not so cut and dry when dealing with China and/or big money.

 

[retird]

Coldrake.......... Another great post.....

 

[Midniteoyl]

Damn you could have spelled my name right.

I have done my research and I have registered for trademark because without it is virtually impossible to litigate. I'm speaking from personal experience. Hopefully we have an attorney here that vapes to jump into the conversation.







The owner of a registration is responsible for bringing any legal action to stop a party from using an infringing mark.

This is key if you want to go into litigation and I believe if you check all attorneys will recommended registration prior to any type of enforcement.





So here's what I will end with, good luck to any small operator attempting to prosecute if the trademark has not been specified and the products aren't registered.

And it's Marc, with a C



While not recognized in China this statement does apply

This. Exactly.

Exactly what I have been saying in this thread since the beginning. Those of you who dont like it, please, have the law changed. But as it stands now, if you are not registered, there is not much you can do. Can you go to court? Sure. But be prepared for a loong battle and you better have all your ducks in a row. If you win the argument that you are the owner of the trademark (this is not a 'given' as other here would have you think), then you have to actually register it, then try to stop the importation of the copies and then try to seek damages. From a company. In China.

Good luck.


edit: Oh, and in the course of all this, you had better hope someone else doesnt come out and claim you stole the mark from them, or that the mark is actually a copyrighted piece of art.