Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[edyle]

I found this bigd on fasttech:

Big Dripper Style rda Rebuildable Dripping Atomizerstainless steel / 22mm dia.

Details:

•510 threading connector
•Copper center pin
•Tri-post design, for single/dual coil build
•Air flow control (2 air holes on the sleeve)
•22mm diameter
•Height without drip tip: 52.9mm
•This Made-in-China atomizer may stamped with "Made in the USA" on the bottom

What to do? Laugh or Cry?

So wait a minute;;; if it says "stainless steel" I guess that might be wrong too?

 

[Circa Survivor]

I found this bigd on fasttech:

Big Dripper Style RDA Rebuildable Dripping Atomizerstainless steel / 22mm dia.



What to do? Laugh or Cry?

So wait a minute;;; if it says "stainless steel" I guess that might be wrong too?

Here's what you do: Don't buy it.

 

[Kendogalopigus]

Im thinking the same thing as you. What battery are you planning on running with your Stingray X ? I've seen so Many options idk which to go with... 20 a , 30 a , think saw a 35 a too. I currently run a. Evic Supreme with a Nautilus Aspire or a kayfun clone that I build to between .8-1.2 ohm
Wanting to have a nice little Stingray to switch between 18650 n 18350 . Following Twisteds links and was thinking on grabbing up the Orchid with the Stingray, replace my Kayfun clone and just rock the Stingray for rebuildables. Hopefully even get my Stillare dripper working, without feeling like I'm drinking juice YUK!
Suggestions a spot can order the newest Orchid, a Stingray and some batteries all from one seller? Links suggestions ?? Thanks ECF

Picture of today's #vapemail got a T sleeve for the mini Aspire and a hollowed out cage style for the big guy .. loving the way they look and still glass inside unlike the previous metal hollow tank/sleeve that was available for the Aspire , I felt all my juice have an awkward taste.

i only use sony VTC5 i get from my local shop not sure where you can buy them online that aren't knockoffs.

 

[bluecat]

Big Dripper Style RDA Rebuildable Dripping Atomizerstainless steel / 22mm dia.



What to do? Laugh or Cry?

So wait a minute;;; if it says "stainless steel" I guess that might be wrong too?

Up to you what you do. Now I know you follow Fasttech a lot, kinda fishy that both the authentic and the clone hit the same day. No I do not know if they hit the same but man.. they were close.

I sure hope it is better than the 3D.. That thing is junk. I wonder if Atmoxiani (however it spelled) reimbursed people the 150+ bucks they purchased that hunk of junk for.

When did the original land?

 

[Tonythefiddler]

But this metal tube is SHINIER. And a newer, slightly different tube. Only $550 on sale, get at me!

 

[Ed_C]

The one thing I just don't get is why anyone thinks stopping cloning would have any effect, at all, on the economy or the income of high-end builders, Say we cracked down on the import of all 1:1 clones, what would likely happen? I'm guessing that China would switch over to making mods that are similar, but not identical to other mods. This is what we had before the onslaught of clones. We had mods like the K100 and Magneto. Both of these are not pure 1:1 clones, but similar to high-end mods. All the people who were buying 1:1 clones would now buy these mods and the same people who were buying high-end mods would still be buying high-end mods. The dollars going to high-end builders and the dollars going to China, would remain the same. Now if you want to argue that copying someone's work is slimy and distasteful, I think you'd have a leg to stand on, but I don't think it has any effect on dollars spent.

Can anyone who has bought a clone, tell me honestly that they would have bought the original if the clone wasn't available?

 

[Nikkita6]

This is the way that a Mature and Wise mod maker handles clone. Zen's stock just went up leaps and bounds in my book!

SEND IN THE CLONES! *NEW*

 

[dr g]

This is the way that a Mature and Wise mod maker handles clone. Zen's stock just went up leaps and bounds in my book!

SEND IN THE CLONES! *NEW*

Frankly, zen shirked. He is one of the bigger industry players and rather than step up to protect his industry, he punted. Didn't want to deal with it.
The move he made is something small shops had to plan to do since they have no legal budgets, but the large players that can step up need to.

 

[twgbonehead]

I found this bigd on fasttech:

Big Dripper Style RDA Rebuildable Dripping Atomizerstainless steel / 22mm dia.



What to do? Laugh or Cry?

So wait a minute;;; if it says "stainless steel" I guess that might be wrong too?

You do realize that you're infringing on FastTech's copyright by posting the image, right?

I mean, if you had posted a link to the actual item it would have made it a lot easier to buy!
And by posting just the image (which has the FastTech watermark clearly visible) instead of the link you are infringing on their trademark. (That is why they do the watermark).

Do you have a release for that image?

Come on, get serious about all this.

China law and culture does NOT recognize the rights of individual ownership when it comes to companies. Never has, for thousands of years (in fact, it's only been a couple of years since private ownership of ANYTHING was recognized in China). From feudal territories through communism, nobody owned anything (except lords and Central Party Members).

 

[Kendogalopigus]

The one thing I just don't get is why anyone thinks stopping cloning would have any effect, at all, on the economy or the income of high-end builders, Say we cracked down on the import of all 1:1 clones, what would likely happen? I'm guessing that China would switch over to making mods that are similar, but not identical to other mods. This is what we had before the onslaught of clones. We had mods like the K100 and Magneto. Both of these are not pure 1:1 clones, but similar to high-end mods. All the people who were buying 1:1 clones would now buy these mods and the same people who were buying high-end mods would still be buying high-end mods. The dollars going to high-end builders and the dollars going to China, would remain the same. Now if you want to argue that copying someone's work is slimy and distasteful, I think you'd have a leg to stand on, but I don't think it has any effect on dollars spent.

Can anyone who has bought a clone, tell me honestly that they would have bought the original if the clone wasn't available?

i would not have bought the authentic stingray x and will not cause $230 is just too much imo.

 

[Lateralus819]

This is an interesting topic, with many good points. Everyone will always want a certain product at as cheap of a price as possible, nothing wrong with that, in terms of buying China, think of the repercussions. It's hard to see, but every dollar spent on U.S. made goods helps.

I am by no means rich or wealthy, probably borderline poor I guess but that hasn't stopped me from buying american. When i was in need of new steel toe boots, i went to the clerk and the first thing out of my mouth was "Show me your boots made in U.S.A". I found but two pairs i think, Red wings and Chippewas. I ended up with a sweet pair of Chippewas. Of course they set me back $200, but i felt incredibly happy. My $50 chinese boots didn't last 6 months.

I've taken the same approach to my woodworking tools. There is a smallish company in maine called Lie nielsen who produces SUPERB tools. They're expensive, but broken down over the EASY 100 year life of the tool, it's chump change. My last hand plane was $500. Is it expensive? Yes. They're near replicas for less from china, but they DON'T hold 95% of their value like the Lie nielsen tools.

Food for thought here...

 

[dr g]

Tools are definitely an area that you need to spend to get quality.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

The one thing I just don't get is why anyone thinks stopping cloning would have any effect, at all, on the economy or the income of high-end builders, Say we cracked down on the import of all 1:1 clones, what would likely happen? I'm guessing that China would switch over to making mods that are similar, but not identical to other mods. This is what we had before the onslaught of clones. We had mods like the K100 and Magneto. Both of these are not pure 1:1 clones, but similar to high-end mods. All the people who were buying 1:1 clones would now buy these mods and the same people who were buying high-end mods would still be buying high-end mods. The dollars going to high-end builders and the dollars going to China, would remain the same. Now if you want to argue that copying someone's work is slimy and distasteful, I think you'd have a leg to stand on, but I don't think it has any effect on dollars spent.

Can anyone who has bought a clone, tell me honestly that they would have bought the original if the clone wasn't available?

When clones cease to exist for whatever reason, more authentic devices are produced to fill in the demand. Those devices may be from any country, including the country that ceases to allow clones to be marketed.

At that point entry into the market with larger quantities of a design might be viable, which may well translate into better pricing for the consumer.

When I speak of better pricing that does not mean sub-clone pricing, sorry. It means lower pricing on authentic devices.

This is the way that a Mature and Wise mod maker handles clone. Zen's stock just went up leaps and bounds in my book!

SEND IN THE CLONES! *NEW*

Wise and mature yes, gained more respect ... not so sure on that one just yet. Here is why.

If the market is flooded with low cost clones it reduces the number of players that can run a viable business in the market. It's called market saturation. So long as you are one of the big players and you have a good chunk of the market share it is wise to promote just enough saturation of the market to prevent entry of a competitor.

While that is a very real possibility, I don't know it to be true. He may not look at it that way at all.

What I do know is that clones are capable of saturating the market as it sits right now if they have not already. That is not something we as a consumer should allow; reason being is our wonderful governments will step in and regulate the living out of our industry if we cant do it ourselves ... oh, that looks to be what is happening now.

The industry that we know today is heavily linked to the Chinese manufacture of clones, and our industry has unwittingly nailed itself into a corner by supporting that. Governments want their cut, they need revenue, it really does not matter where that revenue comes from so long as it is there. Our industry managed to upset that balance (not that any government has managed to be balanced but I hope you get what I mean) without showing a contribution equal to what was taken away.

How do we rectify that? Please allow a slight tangent here ...

At this point many obviously logical solutions are out the door, so we need to look deeper. I think if we can demonstrate that healthcare costs to the public will be reduced in an equal measure to the loss of revenue from tobacco tax we would be golden. Unfortunately I am unsure that is the case. Less lost man hours translates into higher income which in turn translates into more income tax revenue. Maybe that will shore up the gap? I don't know. Maybe if people would support in country mod makers more than they do those in other countries, the increase in jobs and related tax revenue would help recover the lost tobacco tax.

I'm sure you can see that it all boils down to the money, nobody really gives a hoot about your health, if you die the government gets to tax your estate and get more money.

So in a couple years or less, when vaping is regulated and taxed to the hilt, ask yourself, did your clone save you any money, especially when vaping becomes more expensive than smoking.

Your government is going to recoup the lost revenue, they might BS their way to that end, but I see it happening.

Maurice

 

[Lateralus819]

Yes. I restored and sold more hand tools then i care to say to buy them though . It wasn't as easy as having the cash.

 

[dr g]

Wise and mature yes, gained more respect ... not so sure on that one just yet. Here is why.

If the market is flooded with low cost clones it reduces the number of players that can run a viable business in the market. It's called market saturation. So long as you are one of the big players and you have a good chunk of the market share it is wise to promote just enough saturation of the market to prevent entry of a competitor.

While that is a very real possibility, I don't know it to be true. He may not look at it that way at all.

Very astute analysis and very correct. Not that many people understand this or are even in a position to understand this.

 

[stevegmu]

This is an interesting topic, with many good points. Everyone will always want a certain product at as cheap of a price as possible, nothing wrong with that, in terms of buying China, think of the repercussions. It's hard to see, but every dollar spent on U.S. made goods helps.

I am by no means rich or wealthy, probably borderline poor I guess but that hasn't stopped me from buying american. When i was in need of new steel toe boots, i went to the clerk and the first thing out of my mouth was "Show me your boots made in U.S.A". I found but two pairs i think, Red wings and Chippewas. I ended up with a sweet pair of Chippewas. Of course they set me back $200, but i felt incredibly happy. My $50 chinese boots didn't last 6 months.

I've taken the same approach to my woodworking tools. There is a smallish company in maine called Lie nielsen who produces SUPERB tools. They're expensive, but broken down over the EASY 100 year life of the tool, it's chump change. My last hand plane was $500. Is it expensive? Yes. They're near replicas for less from china, but they DON'T hold 95% of their value like the Lie nielsen tools.

Food for thought here...

I wear Carolina Domestic boots to work. They seemingly last forever and are comfortable. I see people at work with $50 PRC boots that only last 3 months, or so. They would rather be uncomfortable and buy cheap boots 3-4 times per year, than invest in 1 good pair. Sometimes people are just cheap and can't see things long term. They are the same ones who buy tools at Harbour Freight...

 

[Lateralus819]

Yeah, a guy at work does that. Somehow he can justify $150 a year on two pairs of chinese boots. Sigh....

Speaking of USA, i needed some pencils and went to grab some ticonderogas. I saw a pack that said U.S.A. gold. I kind of laughed as i figured they were made in China. They were actually U.S.A. made pencils. They're MUCH better.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I think you mean well... but your assumptions and examples really don't apply to these consumer goods. Other than a very limited, few custom built items... nothing that has been discussed here will appreciate in value...ever... no matter how long you hold it.

Two factors... First... brass, copper, stainless steel no matter what shape or size is not a precious metal and once used... remains used. Unless melted in a foundry most of this stuff can not be re-purposed as it sits today.

Second and more importantly... the market... in general, the items we're talking about did not exist 2 years ago. Given the rapid pace of product development and evolution most of the products today will be obsolete and undesirable 2 years from now. Just a minor shift in battery technology away from cylindrical 18650 sizes will render 90% of the mod market scrap metal.

If you want to talk investing wisely... this is a poor market for any long term outlook or return. Your $250 authentic mechanical mod purchase today may well be joining your top of the line DVD player at the local recycling center in a couple of years...

Oh and jewelry is one of the worst investments one can make... even with the rise in gold market values. The retail markup is so high that you rarely can recoup the initial investment even if you retained it 50 years. Diamonds are even worse... there is virtually little to no resale market for used diamonds. Consult with the many people who've tried unloading a wedding ring to help pay off their divorce. That shiny, sparkly $3500 diamond ring that melted the little princess's heart... might net you $600 if you're lucky enough to find a pawn shop that'll buy it.

In all things there is some measure of risk, this I can agree on without reservation.

If battery technology ever provides more power in a smaller package fitment is not likely an issue.

As for jewelry, you are correct that what you pay is not what you'll get out of it. Still, $600 back on a $3500 diamond ring is far better than $0 on a fake gold fake diamond ring, which of course would be awesome in the situation you presented. Wish I would have thought ahead in my first marriage and had fewer ideals.

Maurice

 

[danca90]

I'm a touring musician, and have had the same gear for the last 7 years, buy once, buy right. Country of origin has nothing to do with it.

 

[ImThatGuy]

On a parallel, but side note...

I think the clone market actually did the vaping economy justice...

Without any of these clones around, authentics ran around $150-200+...

Now I've seen good quality (of the same quality, USA made) authentics for $100+ (VCO, Colonial, etc.). If it's profitable to sell an authentic USA made mod for the 'now' price, why not before the clones swamped the market?

See where I'm getting at?