Authentic makers sueing Cloners?
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Best post seen on this site to date. Literally my thoughts exactly.
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+3 street cred.
Sent from my Fuego
Just read this entire thread. Other threads on this subject have been out there for a while too. Only thought I will add is:
Buy authentic and your children and grandchildren will benefit in both tangible and non-tangible ways..... buy clones and they will not.....
Yep, I've researched many copyrights, trademarks, and patents on this......as have dr g and others....
Buy authentic and your children and grandchildren will benefit in both tangible and non-tangible ways..... buy clones and they will not.....
Yep, I've researched many copyrights, trademarks, and patents on this......as have dr g and others....
I can't speak for box mods.
Universally ripped off switch and top cap design though is a bit of a stretch. While there are some mods that are very much a direct copy of a flashlight and contain nothing new in their design, as many if not more are unique in their approach to the design of these parts.
As if you can not distinguish a mod from any other, or a mod from a flashlight or laser pointer. If you can tell the difference it's both original and likely innovative, the latter is of course arguable in any case the former not so much.
I presume you are alluding to the Nemesis logo, used with permission which highly differs from used without permission.
Do you even have a clue how much money is involved in producing and marketing a product. Your pretty much saying hey if you don't have big tobacco pockets I don't want you to bother with this market, but if you do I'm ok with big tobacco stealing your design because I like your design over what big tobacco came up with themselves.
Super cheap + brand new design = don't put any thought into the design or use quality materials
Brand new design + ultra available = front a metric boat load of money on innovation and marketing and production and just hope we buy it
Ultra available + Super cheap = please toss out any thoughts of quality and just give us product for next to nothing
Actually not.
When you sell everything you make at the price you ask, your generally doing really well in business. Your failure to understand that mod designers are not ultra rich people able to fund the production of tens of thousands of mods which at that volume may or may not sell out, so running small lots is the smart business move.
It isn't like there is an available online crystal ball that says how many of your products are going to sell, and even if there was, there is no way to guarantee that you'll have enough money to make that many.
Business sense is far more complex than you think, and the only real way to tell if someone has it is to have access to their bank account and business goals.
I'm fairly sure no Mod designer has a business goal of providing every vaper now and into the future with a device of their own design, such would be a lofty goal. A goal pressing into the realm of big tobacco, something most of us are trying hard to not be like.
Maurice
Exactly ... Unlike some collectables such as certain antique guns, these overpriced 'boutique' mechanical tube mods that are in 'limited production' today, are going to have a very limited resale value in the future.
In 4-5 years, you will be lucky to get 20 bucks for that limited production / pristine condition $250 tube mod which was made by an 'artisan' somewhere in Europe.
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Which of those authentic designers are actually paying the original creative mind that came up with the idea of vaping in the first place?
Think it was some Japanese guy.
I take a wild guess... none.
So basically they are all borrowing the concept , just slightly altering the design. All use a battery holder, some kanthal and some wick to heat our eliquid.
Design patents should be abolished, just original new technological or scientific achievements should be patentable and those only if you have a working prototype and for a limited period of time which should corelate to the effort it cost to reach this achievement.
So 10 yrs of medical research can be rewarded with equal patenting etc.
Somebody coming up with a new metal tube design should not hold any patent. He did not invent anything. The market will come up with those anyway else business will slow down.
Think it was some Japanese guy.
I take a wild guess... none.
So basically they are all borrowing the concept , just slightly altering the design. All use a battery holder, some kanthal and some wick to heat our eliquid.
Design patents should be abolished, just original new technological or scientific achievements should be patentable and those only if you have a working prototype and for a limited period of time which should corelate to the effort it cost to reach this achievement.
So 10 yrs of medical research can be rewarded with equal patenting etc.
Somebody coming up with a new metal tube design should not hold any patent. He did not invent anything. The market will come up with those anyway else business will slow down.
seems to me both sides where less than friendly to each other.
boorish behavior,yes i'll give you that.
illegal,um,i just don't see it.
worth getting my undies in a bunch?
in the big scheme of things it doesn't warrant a second thought.
it was what it was.
regards
mike
What I do know is that clones are capable of saturating the market as it sits right now if they have not already. That is not something we as a consumer should allow; reason being is our wonderful governments will step in and regulate the livingout of our industry if we cant do it ourselves ... oh, that looks to be what is happening now.
The industry that we know today is heavily linked to the Chinese manufacture of clones, and our industry has unwittingly nailed itself into a corner by supporting that. Governments want their cut, they need revenue, it really does not matter where that revenue comes from so long as it is there. Our industry managed to upset that balance (not that any government has managed to be balanced but I hope you get what I mean) without showing a contribution equal to what was taken away.
Maurice
The regulation is not coming because there are clones. The regulation is coming because of nicotine.
No person would hold a patent for a particular tube construction method, oh wait, actually someone does hold a patent for tubes made out of spirally wrapped metal that is then welded together, pretty cool.
Your very general view of a mod is where your failure to understand the whole concept of what a patent even is, and how focused a patent really is.
You can make a fork and patent some aspect of the material it is made out of that makes it a better fork, I can make a fork that is different in another way, lets say it has a cutting edge that is mouth safe, that mouth safe cutting edge is what I'm getting a patent on, not the entire fork in very general terms.
If we are going to get rid of design patents why don't we get rid of oh I don't know "laws all together" they just sort of get in the way, like ethics.
Maurice
If the clone makers have the machinery and the know how, why don't they just create thier own brand and still sell it cheap instead copying others? All they have to do is alter the design a little and they are legally free from any patents. The basic principles are the same.
Regulation is coming because money is being lost in the form of lesser tobacco tax revenue.
Maurice
Please tell me how my kids and grandkids will benefit if I buy a Nemisis out of Greece or a cheap clone out of China?
you most certainly are on the right track.
with little or no effort they could make a mod of the same form but not necessarily the same styling and exact design and
say compare our performance to Bobs honkin" cloud maker.this is perfectly legal i believe.
i think the reason for 1:1 clones is that's what the people want.
supply and demand verses money in the pocket.
contrary to a few posters in this thread most people buying clones are not telling friends and associates
to check out their new clone. its more like "look, i got one of Bobs honkin" cloud makers".
regards
mike
Yes. If there was no nicotine in these solutions, I doubt they could find anything sensible to regulate.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/shop-hourly-rates-89314/
Hang out there for a bit if you want a better idea of what the machinist world is all about. I'd be seriously scared of what it might cost to make a few thousand mods of very high quality.
Maurice
They do this and I've already posted some examples. The clones are just more popular.
Buy a US mod if you want to help your kids out, Greeks should buy more Greek mods, Germans should buy more German mods, etc ....
Maurice
you most certainly are on the right track.
with little or no effort they could make a mod of the same form but not necessarily the same styling and exact design and
say compare our performance to Bobs honkin" cloud maker.this is perfectly legal i believe.
i think the reason for 1:1 clones is that's what the people want.
supply and demand verses money in the pocket.
contrary to a few posters in this thread most people buying clones are not telling friends and associates
to check out their new clone. its more like "look, i got one of Bobs honkin" cloud makers".
regards
mike
I always tell people my Stingray is a clone.
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