Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[Bronze]

Just sayin'

Which is what I was doing.

 

[Circa Survivor]

Which is what I was doing.

Well.... alright then!

 

[wonkeypickle]

In short, I just don't care.

america.



message length.

 

[Ed_C]

Who says most don't? The problem is most counterfeits are made in PRC, which doesn't recognize intellectual property rights...

If they do, why don't we see some indication on the mod, website or packaging? Don't companies with registered trademarks usally indicate this? I think they do. No one is saying that the PRC would stop making them, but if the company had a trademark, they could make it so it couldn't be sold in the US. At least through legit channels.

 

[Bronze]

Here are two undeniable points IMO,

1) Disregarding patents and other's proprietary rights stifles innovation.
2) Many people would not by a product at the original manufacturers price because they could not afford it.

I guess this is why efforts have been made to protect a proprietor's rights for a set period of time as this balances those two undeniable points.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Patent Protection in China

Introduction

Every company owning patents and
doing business with China is strongly
advised to use the Chinese patent
system. It is absolutely crucial to apply
for patent protection in China for each
and every innovation, even if the launch
of the respective product on the Chinese
market is not yet on the horizon. It should
also be noted that a European registered
patent has no legal effect in China.

IP protection measures should not be
limited to filing patent applications. It
is advisable to implement an overall
IP strategy covering legal, technical,
administrative, and political aspects.
Protect your innovations: In order to
obtain patent protection in China, the
inventor or the owner of the invention
has to file a Chinese patent application.
The Chinese State Intellectual Property
Office (SIPO) is the government authority
that receives and examines patent
applications.

An invention will not be granted a patent
if it is not new, i.e., known to the public
before the date the patent application
is filed. Therefore, before you start to
market, sell or otherwise make the
invention known to the public anywhere
in the world, a patent application must
first be filed

http://www.china-iprhelpdesk.eu/doc..._Patent_and_Trademark_Protection_in_China.pdf


If you wanna do business in China... It doesnt make much since if you are a smaller company as they wont really protect you anyways, but the big companies seem to do alright.

 

[Midniteoyl]

And the people to make it happen

http://www.trademarkpatent.com.cn/En/index.htm

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

LOL... Me and the wife spent ~$550 a month on smoking.... Still doesnt mean I think that 'original' is a good deal. As I said many times, its 'perceived value'. And, before you go on about how I 'perceived' cigs to be a good value because I spent so much on them, know that I didnt know about vaping then and as soon as I did, I switched. Mostly because of the value.

I'd like to see you define your version of value.

I was around a 5 pack a week smoker.... Paid around 6.50 per pack. 5 * 6.50 = 32.50 a week. 52 weeks in a year 32.50*52 = 1,690... Yes people smoke mroe than I did. a 2 pack a day smoker. 14 packs per week * 6.50 91 bucks a week. 91*52 = 4,732 dollars a year. I could buy a 3,000 dollar Otto Carver and still save 1,732 compared to smoking if I was a 2 day a pack smoker. So using your example everyone that smoked 2 packs a day should be sporting an Otto Carver, right?

That analogy drives me bat crazy. You can justify anything in life that way. Just say I wanted to buy so I did. No one has to justify anything with me. I don;'t give a crap if you make 5 dollars a week and go buy a 3,000 dollar device. You are an adult and are responsible for your own actions. I buy what I want. I am not weak and do not have to justify my purchases.

Sure you buy what you want, we all do.

We don't care how much money anyone makes, it really isn't relevant so long as you aren't living beyond your means.

You don't have to justify anything here, this is not a court of law or anything of the sort. We are just chatting.

Everybody is responsible for their own actions, especially when those actions impact others.

Nobody has suggested what anyone should spend the entirety of their former smoking allocation of money on vape gear, it is suggested that if one had the ability to spend $XXX on cigarettes they could spend a similar quantity of money on vape gear, liquids, and such.

For many, a mod is a trophy for quitting and saving $XXX dollars, for some the device is just a tool, still others see the device as another expense in a long list of expenses.

I keep within my former smoking habit budget, I'm glad that is a possibility for me. If I were to have needed to reduce my costs I would have both started differently and progressed differently for sure, I still would not have became pro-clone. In any case, your budget is your limiting factor as it is mine. How a pro-clone and anti-clone person go about staying within their respective budgets is very different.

When I started I vaped some 1.5mL a day, I could conceivably have spent $130 and vaped for 6 months equipment, juice, and supplies all included (all authentic). If I spent that today I could vape for years (all authentic).

In any case, if you don't want to justify your spending, don't partake in a conversation that is pretty much all about the justification of how people spend their money. Or at least simplify your reply to something on the order of I am pro-clone and do not wish to speak to why. I can respect that.

Maurice

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

And. as I said in a previous post, this is not a moral failing, but rather an ideological difference between Chinese culture and ours.

The Chinese are well aware that our ideals are different, they simply fail to respect ours, and interestingly enough capitalize on the difference. Communist capitalization

Maurice

 

[Midniteoyl]

I'd like to see you define your version of value.

Maurice

Not gonna go there.. No need to start a whole different debate on what I picked as money well spent on and what I wouldnt spend money on. As I said before, its all perceived differently depending on the person.

 

[Midniteoyl]

The Chinese are well aware that our ideals are different, they simply fail to respect ours, and interestingly enough capitalize on the difference. Communist capitalization

Maurice

Um.. where'd you come up with that 'quote' of mine..? Hint: it wasnt mine and the linkback doesnt take you to the actual post...

 

[skoony]

Who cares. Buy what you want and don't judge other people. Life's too short to care about this kind of crap.

we care because every ones life is going to get a lot shorter when we go to war with
China because of this and a lot of other things their pulling.

regards
mike

 

[Midniteoyl]

Aw.. they act tough to keep up the image, but they would be totally stupid to actually go to a fighting war and they know it. Not because we would win or lose, but because either way their economy would tank.

 

[Bronze]

Ask yourself, why would a drug company invest $2 billion to develop a new malady-curing medicine (not uncommon) if there are cloners who will copy it in a matter of a few months and undercut the market (since they didn't have to pay for development costs). What do you suppose would happen to innovation?

 

[Midniteoyl]

Ask yourself, why would a drug company invest $2 billion to develop a new malady-curing medicine (not uncommon) if there are cloners who will copy it in a matter of a few months and undercut the market (since they didn't have to pay for development costs). What do you suppose would happen to innovation?

But those $2billion spending companies know how to protect their rights... After spending $2billion, another few million is chump change.. And they start the process waaaaayyyy before its actually even tested.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Um.. where'd you come up with that 'quote' of mine..? Hint: it wasnt mine and the linkback doesnt take you to the actual post...

Not sure what happened there but I fixed it, sort of.

Maurice

 

[Bronze]

But those $2billion spending companies know how to protect their rights... After spending $2billion, another few million is chump change.. And they start the process waaaaayyyy before its actually even tested.

Very true. But my point still remains.

 

[skoony]

Yeah, we do have product lines for government contractors- like armored diesel fuel line, but for the most part, we are thriving because the applications our products are used for can not be made to the same standards in China and our customers know that...

i do not think its true that your products can not be made to the same standards in
China as here.

it would be more reasonable to assume that it is more important they be made here
for more strategic or economic reasons as with out those hoses nothing
goes out the door.
sort of like ball bearings in WW II.
regards
mike

 

[jimbodaddy74]

Your stuck on the metal tubes aren't innovation thing aren't you?

Metal tubes have been a part of innovation for longer than most of us have been alive and will continue to be a part of innovative design till we are long gone.

Lets take for example the often talked about voltage drop between mods, they all pretty much have differing values when tested against one another under similar circumstances. This is a function of the design of the switch, the machining quality, the metal composition, and any number of other factors. Predominantly the design is responsible for better or worse voltage drop values.

You may consider this less than innovative, while I'm not sure how a design that produces better (lower) voltage drop can not be innovative I'll carry on.

The roller switch is said to have a very smooth action, that's great for people who lack dexterity to make fickle switches work with any sort of smoothness. The switch is to my understanding highly effective in this aspect of its functionality, innovative if you will.

Similarly innovative is the use of laminated metals, both for artistic reasons and for conductivity. While the use of laminated metals is not entirely new it is innovative in this field of design.

Some mods have incorporated bold shapes to the tube section, some shapes help with the ergonomics some hinder the users ability to manage the mod. These design considerations can be said to be innovative as well when they increase the ease of use of a mod.

A pattern of cutouts on the tube may act to aid in the users ability to maintain grip on the mod, Provari is notable in this regard. Cutout designs will differ as will their comfort and functionality, leading to innovative designs. Some will incorporate logos to enhance the beauty of the device.

There exists many types of threading methods, any of which can effect several factors of performance and functionality of the device. Fine threading may increase contact area between parts, coarse threading may be more resilient to impact and less easy to cross threading and double helix threading may well increase assemble and disassemble speed and should decrease the torque required to loosen an assembly. Innovative in this field, I'd say there is plenty of room to improve so yes.

The design of a mod always calls for certain metals so as to perform as designed, one may utilize metal qualities to increase damage resistance or lighten the load of a person interested in carrying the least amount of weight on a long hike, all innovative uses of metal in this application.

Innovative use of coatings and plating have resulted in durability and functionality improvements, ZEN has the durability coating and many have used silver plating in their designs to improve conductivity, there is always room for improvements, so innovation will continue.

You see, innovation comes sometimes in very small steps, other times it comes in huge leaps and bounds. Innovation is linked to a particular function, innovation can be the use of a new material to accomplish a task in a way it was not accomplished in the past, or simply the treatment an older material receives that alters its performance, at times it could be simply a shape that impacts functionality.

Creativity, innovation, and resourcefulness, are all intertwined; any novel use of materials that serves a function can be considered innovative. Look at all of the interesting coil designs, some adapted from tube coils in other industries, others fully unique to the ecig world.

If all you see is a tube, a switch, and an end cap, you aren't seeing the many innovations this market is developing as it matures.

Maurice

Ten characters.

 

[Circa Survivor]

Very true. But my point still remains.

Then they don't know how to protect their ideas/product/company.