Authentic makers sueing Cloners?

[skoony]

Am I the only one who really doesn't care about what someone else thinks is "immoral" or "or right"? Last time I checked I was an adult and I can make my own choices. If you think I'm an immoral ..... for buying a clone, that's your issue, not mine. I'll continue to live a happy, smoke free life with my clone.

no its your issue.
you seem to think you are the only one in the world that gets to do what you want when you want to do it.
while we on the other hand we try to do whats right.

makes us a bunch of chumps,right?

must be nice not to have to justify the decisions you make.

regards
mike

 

[TheProphet]

while we on the other hand we try to do whats right.

What you THINK is right. Everyone has their own set of morals. There is no one supreme set of morals. There is no black and white right and wrong. You're right, I don't have to justify my actions to anyone else, because me buying a clone does not affect you. It's none of your business what I buy and what I don't.


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[skoony]

What you THINK is right. Everyone has their own set of morals. There is no one supreme set of morals. There is no black and white right and wrong. You're right, I don't have to justify my actions to anyone else, because me buying a clone does not affect you. It's none of your business what I buy and what I don't.


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no one has their own set of morals.
one has a creed,religion,ethic or, life style.
not one of which states i get to make the rules as i go along.
that's anarchy.
buying clones not only affects me,it affects you,every one that's trying to make a living and the economy in general.

 

[TheProphet]

Who said I was making rules? I simply don't view clones as wrong. Obviously you do. You can keep trying to correct me but honestly it really doesn't matter. Your opinion has no affect on how I'll live my life. At this point the entire thread is a moot point. Neither side will say the other is right. Because there isn't one correct viewpoint.


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[skoony]

Who said I was making rules? I simply don't view clones as wrong. Obviously you do. You can keep trying to correct me but honestly it really doesn't matter. Your opinion has no affect on how I'll live my life. At this point the entire thread is a moot point. Neither side will say the other is right. Because there isn't one correct viewpoint.


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because clones(knock-offs) are wrong.
you can't think that away.
there is a correct viewpoint its called do no harm.

 

[samcm010]

I vape almost exclusively on my MVP's.

They are authentic.

They have never been cloned to the best of my knowledge.

They are complicated, and involved a lot of design work, and engineering.

My wife and daughter like the innokin VV V3. Also never cloned. Also well-designed.

So I almost exclusively vape on genuine equipment (although I do own some clones, and some home-made's). But I buy from a company that provides original engineering and design, and has the guts to go for it in a way that makes it an affordable (and therefore successful) product because they invested in it.

As for worrying about whether or not my kids will be able to live a profitable lifestyle, I've given up on that a long time ago. The government seems hell-bent on throwing them in the trash, and I'm too darn tired of fighting that battle. It's Darwin's turn.

Well said! Another example of being able to own authentic well made designers at an affordable price without having to spend $200. One does not have to spend $200 to buy an authentic, not stolen logo or copied mod in order to stay off cigs.

 

[TheProphet]

because clones(knock-offs) are wrong.
you can't think that away.
there is a correct viewpoint its called do no harm.

They're wrong to you. Not me.

I can't? Watch me.

Who exactly is getting harmed by me buying a clone? The authentics makers aren't losing a sale with me. I buy a clone because it's cheap. If authentic is all that's available, I'm not shelling out that much cash for a metal tube. The authentic won't see my money either way, so they're not losing anything if I buy a clone.


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[Ed_C]

because clones(knock-offs) are wrong.
you can't think that away.
there is a correct viewpoint its called do no harm.

While I do own one clone, I'm not a big fan on the idea of clones. I do question what harm is being done. It seems like high-end builders have no problem selling all their product they make and I think the customer for a $30 mod is not the same person that would drop $200 on a mod, That being said I think it's fair to argue that having a glut of copies on the market, may make the originals, a little less appealing to some people.

 

[samcm010]

They're wrong to you. Not me.

I can't? Watch me.

Who exactly is getting harmed by me buying a clone? The authentics makers aren't losing a sale with me. I buy a clone because it's cheap. If authentic is all that's available, I'm not shelling out that much cash for a metal tube. The authentic won't see my money either way, so they're not losing anything if I buy a clone.


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There are authentic makers that are losing your purchasing dollars that are not expensive so that point is rubbish. If you had no clones to buy you would buy an affordable authentic or something used unless you choose to keep smoking. When you purchase something cloned you are deliberately choosing to buy the design you like (the design or designer you obviously do not care a whit about) rather than buying an affordable authentic design. Your decision while yours to make clearly proves you do not care one iota about intellectual rights or original concepts. Which again I support your right to make that decision I just disagree with it and the companies that steal the logos and copy designs and make it possible for you to do so..
Just to clarify where do you stand on downloading music and movies illegally? Should the musicians and studios not get compensated for their products?

 

[samcm010]

While I do own one clone, I'm not a big fan on the idea of clones. I do question what harm is being done. It seems like high-end builders have no problem selling all their product they make and I think the customer for a $30 mod is not the same person that would drop $200 on a mod, That being said I think it's fair to argue that having a glut of copies on the market, may make the originals, a little less appealing to some people.

Which is a very fair point and a question I think should be explored perhaps this is not the thread but I would love to hear peoples arguments as for why clones do or do not hurt the authentic modders.. I fear the idea of starting that thread but might just have to.

 

[Circa Survivor]

because clones(knock-offs) are wrong.
you can't think that away.
there is a correct viewpoint its called do no harm.

You remind me of those crazy bible literalists. I'm with prophet on this one. I don't have a problem with it, so it must be YOUR problem. I download music,movies, and tv shows and I don't care one bit if it "hurts" the creator (even though it's of no significance to them.) If that makes me a terrible person then I'm totally ok with that and I'm loving it especially since it gets your panties in a wad.

 

[The Cloud Minder]

There are authentic makers that are losing your purchasing dollars that are not expensive so that point is rubbish. If you had no clones to buy you would buy an affordable authentic or something used unless you choose to keep smoking. When you purchase something cloned you are deliberately choosing to buy the design you like (the design or designer you obviously do not care a whit about) rather than buying an affordable authentic design. Your decision while yours to make clearly proves you do not care one iota about intellectual rights or original concepts. Which again I support your right to make that decision I just disagree with it and the companies that steal the logos and copy designs and make it possible for you to do so..
Just to clarify where do you stand on downloading music and movies illegally? Should the musicians and studios not get compensated for their products?

While I understand and agree with you on intellectual property rights, I have almost no disposable income, as I am supporting a household that was designed and formerly working on 2 incomes with just my own income.

If not for clones, I wouldn't have the great vaping experiences I have now, or would be smoking again, and probably skipping meals.

That said, I would actually prefer if the clones I bought, DIDN'T have the Logos on them that they don't deserve to have and were unadorned.

 

[samcm010]

While I understand and agree with you on intellectual property rights, I have almost no disposable income, as I am supporting a household that was designed and formerly working on 2 incomes with just my own income.

If not for clones, I wouldn't have the great vaping experiences I have now, or would be smoking again, and probably skipping meals.

That said, I would actually prefer if the clones I bought, DIDN'T have the Logos on them that they don't deserve to have and were unadorned.

This is understandable as I am sure there are plenty of people in this situation. Politely I would argue if you went back to smoking cigarettes you would quickly spend far more than an MVP2 and Pro tank. But I am not inhuman and I would much prefer my fellow vapers stay off cigarettes then ever go back to them. If this means that they need to do so by buying a clone than I applaud their ability to stay of cigs.. I just wish there were more information available to show people that very affordable set ups that perform very well are available for far less than the stolen clones.

 

[samcm010]

You remind me of those crazy bible literalists. I'm with prophet on this one. I don't have a problem with it, so it must be YOUR problem. I download music,movies, and tv shows and I don't care one bit if it "hurts" the creator (even though it's of no significance to them.) If that makes me a terrible person then I'm totally ok with that and I'm loving it especially since it gets your panties in a wad.

Hahaha you are so consistent Circa good for you! At least you admit you are ok with stealing I like a person that stands by their decisions.

 

[The Cloud Minder]

This is understandable as I am sure there are plenty of people in this situation. Politely I would argue if you went back to smoking cigarettes you would quickly spend far more than an MVP2 and Pro tank. But I am not inhuman and I would much prefer my fellow vapers stay off cigarettes then ever go back to them. If this means that they need to do so by buying a clone than I applaud their ability to stay of cigs.. I just wish there were more information available to show people that very affordable set ups that perform very well are available for far less than the stolen clones.

Actually, when I looked over my stuff, MOST is authentic (Spinner 2, itaste 3VV, Etc.) only, my 3 drippers and my mech mod are clones.
Would I buy authentic if I could afford it? Heck yeah, but I still want the best possible vaping experience I can get. I feel a little guilty, but like I said, I'd rather have clones that didn't have ripped off Logos on them. Copying is one thing, making it look like authentic by ripping off the name and trademark font, makes me slightly unhappy.

But, if it means I can stay of cigarrettes, i can live with the guilt.

 

[samcm010]

Actually, when I looked over my stuff, MOST is authentic (Spinner 2, itaste 3VV, Etc.) only, my 3 drippers and my mech mod are clones.
Would I buy authentic if I could afford it? Heck yeah, but I still want the best possible vaping experience I can get. I feel a little guilty, but like I said, I'd rather have clones that didn't have ripped off Logos on them. Copying is one thing, making it look like authentic by ripping off the name and trademark font, makes me slightly unhappy.

But, if it means I can stay of cigarrettes, i can live with the guilt.

Yes sir that is a very healthy attitude to have! I am glad you are staying off the cigs and appreciate the situation. It is a far more reasoned thought process then some.

 

[samcm010]

Actually, when I looked over my stuff, MOST is authentic (Spinner 2, itaste 3VV, Etc.) only, my 3 drippers and my mech mod are clones.
Would I buy authentic if I could afford it? Heck yeah, but I still want the best possible vaping experience I can get. I feel a little guilty, but like I said, I'd rather have clones that didn't have ripped off Logos on them. Copying is one thing, making it look like authentic by ripping off the name and trademark font, makes me slightly unhappy.

But, if it means I can stay of cigarrettes, i can live with the guilt.

Also if I might suggest this thread and the classifieds for any future purchases. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/604037-list-mods-100-less-not-clone.html
Many of these mods perform as well as most of the authentics and in the case of the classifieds especially on ECF you can get really great deals for far less than you think just make an offer you might be surprised at what you find for $50

 

[samcm010]

So the under $100 thread was such a good idea I though I would try my hand at an under $50.00 thread. Which took about 5 minutes of searching online.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...t-under-50-00-feel-free-add.html#post14233337

 

[Jman8]

because its illegal,immoral and not right.
if you can't afford the new Cadillac,buy the used Ford Taurus.
your situation in life has nothing to do with this.
regards
mike

So, in recent post, someone said that no one on either side is going to change their opinions because of this discussion. I understand this sentiment, but I am one that is somewhat in the middle, because I do wonder about those who hold this firm opinion on the immorality of the cloning issue what you may do in a world where FDA has managed to restrict the market to only cigalike makers? Would you then be willing to go black market and use clones that are imported? Or would you allow your firm position on this topic to say that you'll never use/purchase a clone and if it means you can only vape (on new gear) with a cigalike, you'll go that route, or perhaps stop buying all new gear, even if that is say 10 years from now?

 

[Jman8]

Who exactly is getting harmed by me buying a clone? The authentics makers aren't losing a sale with me. I buy a clone because it's cheap. If authentic is all that's available, I'm not shelling out that much cash for a metal tube. The authentic won't see my money either way, so they're not losing anything if I buy a clone.

LOL, I don't even own a mod, clone or authentic. But not hard to make the case that if there are buyers in a mod market, that knock-offs hurt potential sales of authentics. One could argue that all, or most, forms of theft cause no harm to anyone. Like if I copy a song that someone else paid for, and then proceed to make 1 billion copies of that song and distribute it freely to whoever wants it, where is the harm to the original artist? If all the people who accepted free copy claim they wouldn't have bought the paid copy, then the argument could be that there was zero harm to the artist. And many would claim, I think, that having 1 billion copies of your music distributed is a very good thing, so really then it ought to be okay to give away free copies of most things, yes?