I have 3 ProVari and 2 ProVape-1s; mods could be banned tomorrow and I'm set for life...
Authentic makers sueing Cloners?
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And politely, I would argue, that going back to smoking doesn't need to be full blown smoker as it once was. I'm a proud dual user. I smoke a pack every 10 days. What's that costing me? About $25 a month? And in a thread where there's no right or wrong, then no one here can claim it is wrong to smoke, well, unless you have a little ANTZ in ya.
Again, I don't even use a mod. More than $20 for a device strikes me as too much. I'm happy with my vaping set up and very okay with those who do desire a mod.
But also don't see it as all that hard to admit that cloning is a form of theft that both seller and buyers are engaged in. To me, admitting to this is like admitting that on occasion, I'll be driving in my car and drive over the speed limit. That's illegal. Some might even say immoral. To me it is what it is, and I'm well aware of the illegality of it. Why make excuses that attempt to weasel out of it being illegal? (Asked rhetorically, directed to the pro-clone crowd.)
I like your premise but in that world the clones would really only exist because of the original mod makers taking the perhaps short term risk now. However to answer your question in a different world than the one we currently live in.. a world where the government has clamped down on mods I would purchase whatever I could get my hands on if I had to buy a mod. I am fortunate enough to own enough to never have to purchase another and would frankly sell a few in the black market to pay for black market juice. But in the world you describe one I think might be coming I would never criticize someone for buying a clone. That however is not the world we live in right now
The basics of a mech mod are so simple, anybody with minor diy experience can put one together. It might not be as pretty but just as functional. A basic battery holder and a switch would do. Don't think you need an extensive stock. A local diy store would be sufficient.
It's been stated a couple times but: half of the "authentic" tanks/attys and mods on the market are really just "clones" of something else.
Take, for example, the Kayfun - which several tanks since it have been based off of. After all, how many times has the Russian 91% been called a Kayfun clone? And the Fogger has been called an Aqua clone. But these tanks are considered "authentic" - even though they're really just ripping off someone else's idea.
Same with several mods - which really are just a case for batteries with a fire button.
That said, also... as I'm sure has also been said several times...
people who don't have the money to buy these expensive products never were going to buy the originals in the first place.
I'll never have the money for an expensive mod or tank. The "authentic" makers are not losing my business because clones exist --- but I am getting a good product that helps me not smoke (and enjoy what is slowly becoming a hobby in vaping) because clones exist.
(Not that I own any... yet, but I wouldn't be against owning any... and realistically, in the future, I will likely own some --- and not because I just wanted to save money and decided to buy a clone, but because I never would have been able to (or willing to) pay $100+ for a single piece of hardware)
I think we're likely overestimating how much money the "authentic" makers are losing because of the clone market.
Furthermore, as has been stated in a video or two I watched this week --- some people will start with the clone, like it so much that they then seek out and order the authentic product... which the normally wouldn't have bought because of the price to begin with, but then choose to save up and purchase because of the clones.
Unless the clones are 100% ripping off the original product (name as well as asthetics), I don't see the point in it being illegal.
Especially considering all the things throughout time that have been ripped off and sold with much less changed than one simple graphic (or part of a graphic) (Can we say: movies, books, art, music, ect, ect, ect, EVERY-DERNED-THING).
Is it worth it to choke the market and make vapers unable to access hardware that keeps them off cigarettes so that some companies can get a few extra hundreds of dollars and hold on to something that is easily duplicated, but helps people quit and stay off cigarettes?
What's next? Sue every single person who puts their own text into a Coco-Cola logo and prints it on a shirt?
Take, for example, the Kayfun - which several tanks since it have been based off of. After all, how many times has the Russian 91% been called a Kayfun clone? And the Fogger has been called an Aqua clone. But these tanks are considered "authentic" - even though they're really just ripping off someone else's idea.
Same with several mods - which really are just a case for batteries with a fire button.
That said, also... as I'm sure has also been said several times...
people who don't have the money to buy these expensive products never were going to buy the originals in the first place.
I'll never have the money for an expensive mod or tank. The "authentic" makers are not losing my business because clones exist --- but I am getting a good product that helps me not smoke (and enjoy what is slowly becoming a hobby in vaping) because clones exist.
(Not that I own any... yet, but I wouldn't be against owning any... and realistically, in the future, I will likely own some --- and not because I just wanted to save money and decided to buy a clone, but because I never would have been able to (or willing to) pay $100+ for a single piece of hardware)
I think we're likely overestimating how much money the "authentic" makers are losing because of the clone market.
Furthermore, as has been stated in a video or two I watched this week --- some people will start with the clone, like it so much that they then seek out and order the authentic product... which the normally wouldn't have bought because of the price to begin with, but then choose to save up and purchase because of the clones.
Unless the clones are 100% ripping off the original product (name as well as asthetics), I don't see the point in it being illegal.
Especially considering all the things throughout time that have been ripped off and sold with much less changed than one simple graphic (or part of a graphic) (Can we say: movies, books, art, music, ect, ect, ect, EVERY-DERNED-THING).
Is it worth it to choke the market and make vapers unable to access hardware that keeps them off cigarettes so that some companies can get a few extra hundreds of dollars and hold on to something that is easily duplicated, but helps people quit and stay off cigarettes?
What's next? Sue every single person who puts their own text into a Coco-Cola logo and prints it on a shirt?
I agree whole-heartedly with the previous reply on this topic. If the clones aren't claiming to be original, and are not using the actual name and branding of the original producer...then I see little problem with it. Knock-offs and clones are a fact of life in the internet age. Hmm...perhaps if the original mod makers stopped these 'clone-wars', (sorry, had to do it) then maybe they pool the money wasted in this pursuit and cut prices a bit...entice more people to buy the real thing. Just a thought.
Wow, and there's even a few 18650 mods in there that are in stock.
Do you know why they've never been cloned? Do you know why provari has never been (successfully) cloned?
It's not because they're bad equipment, just the opposite, in fact. They are (and this includes the VTR as well as other Innokin products) high quality. They are reliable. In the case of the Provari, they're not always cheap.
The major difference is the availability. If I want a Provari, I go order one in the color I want from any number of brick and mortars or online shops. I buy the accessories I need too. Same, and even more so, with Innokin products.
Why are you going to buy a knockoff Provari when I can get the real thing easily? A clone might be as good, buy why risk it? Same with a VTR or MVP.
Once again, if authentic makers actually increased the availability of their pieces, it would not only cut down on cloning but also on the price due to the economics of larger scale production.
But It obviously does bother you that people are judging you negatively. It shows in how strongly and repeatedly you deny it. Ever ask yourself why?
Except it doesn't bother me. Dude, I get judged "negatively" a million ways every single day for various reasons, whether it be how I look, how I dress, my religious choices, the music I listen to... the list goes on and on. You really think what someone else thinks of my shiny metal tube affects me?
I think in this scenario, it would be a moot point. While I understand that people vape in lot's of countries, Americans are driving the market at the moment. Cloners make money by manufacturing cheap, selling cheap, and selling A LOT. If there was no American market, I don't think it would be worth the money to clone stuff made in Europe, the Philippines, etc. Also, it would be much more difficult to get either a clone, or an authentic of any kind, as they would be stopping shipments coming into the country. (Has already been done in the past.)
So I posted in this thread for a while and stopped but I have one additional question because this recently came up.
I own an authentic Veritas, I bought it because the quality is significantly superior and I had the money. I recently reached out to the supplier and builder to get a new insulator (to purchase, didn't ask for anything free). I supplied all the information including a method to prove it was an authentic, and over the course of two weeks have not received a response.
So I bought US and so far there is zero support for their product. How is this any different than buying a clone and not getting any support. How should I feel as a consumer when a US manufacturer won't support their product.
I own an authentic Veritas, I bought it because the quality is significantly superior and I had the money. I recently reached out to the supplier and builder to get a new insulator (to purchase, didn't ask for anything free). I supplied all the information including a method to prove it was an authentic, and over the course of two weeks have not received a response.
So I bought US and so far there is zero support for their product. How is this any different than buying a clone and not getting any support. How should I feel as a consumer when a US manufacturer won't support their product.
Yep, I sure do. And the other things do to. I was judged for the very same things when I was younger, and probably still am to a certain degree now. How it effects you is one thing, but there is no denying that it effects you. Clothes, and hair, and musical style are not moral or legal dilemmas. I couldn't care less how you dress or what music you listen to. I judge people on how they act, and the things they do. I would hope that others would do the same to me, even if i still don't measure up. In the big scheme of things, I don't care what you buy. Life goes on. But on a forum for vaping, in a discussion such as this one, there will be judgements one way or the other.
So you must follow him around and see that owning a clone mod affects him personally. I mean, you said it does. So that would be the only thing that makes sense.
Man, I blow clouds all day on fine authentic equipment.Quit being so elitist already.
Part of the reason I prefer copper mods: as a plumber, I work with copper pipe and fittings almost daily. Have for several years. All I do is pretty mundane and typically just work. The pipe and fittings I use are not cheap (compared to a mod, they are, though compared to other types of pipe they are at a premium), though I do not see my work as any kind of art. It is just a trade that I am trained in, that the good people of society need.
How this relates to mods, well, I see a design and I like it, and I think to myself "well, someone had to think that up, design it, and it is way more intricate and cool than any of the crap I ever use copper for".
Just my personal take/opinion/feelings on this subject, not trying to debate it. Just throwing in my.
Which is cool. The thing if you really look at all these authentics.. not all but the vast majority.. they are all the same in design. Maybe and air hole here or a twist there. They are all very similar to point of cloning. Even with that I admit to different name/logos on them but the design is too similar. I would be right there with the anti-cloners if the clone would be selling for the same price.
I wonder if other tradesman/woman doing a job like yours think another doing the same job is cloning.
That's where the problem lies ... To many on this forum, vaping has become a serious hobby ... To some, even a lifestyle.
And because everything that has anything to do with vaping is so important to these people, many are going to have very strong opinions (even strong opinions about purchasing clones vs authentics).
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In my case, I could care less whether or not someone buys a clone or an authentic. I am into vaping only because it is the only alternative to smoking that seems to work for me.
I think too many folks here are taking this whole vaping deal WAY WAY too seriously!
Ron ...
'proud owner of cheap Chinese clones and overpriced authentics'
Sorry for that.. I am enjoying the discussion for the most part. I read the dissenting opinions as well. I think I am better for it. The recent rash of posters telling others that the thread should just die rubbed me the wrong way.
I am sure there are many post a pic of your mod thread or what did you buy today threads that are more stimulating than this. That wasn't directed at you but as threads in whole. Just because some may find it silly others don't.
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The thing gets me in the return period.... if they allow returns. It seems like it is a crap shoot. At least with a clone you are out 20 bucks vs 200 if you do not like it. Heck I think FT gives you 6 months.
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