Authentic makers sueing Cloners?
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I don't understand why it is so difficult for some to differentiate between the concept of an electronic cigarette and a company reverse engineering a device, logos, name and all, and it being sold as a clone of someone's design...
Depends on the disposition of the IP. Lack of availability is not a justification for infringement.
And I am still waiting to hear what out of production mod sells for $2000? The used market is very low right now... an authentic Caravela can be had for around $400 not sure why anyone would want one but they are available. The only really expensive tube mod right now that I know of is the Glas. The argument that authentic mods cost upwards of $200 is just silly not many actually cost that much. Now regulated wood mods those can go for tons (and are not being cloned because the cloners cannot do it) but anyone wanting to get regulated DNA30 devices can do so with an Istick or many others for less than $100
So you advocate cloning of DNA boards, but not of mechanical? Interesting
No I am staunchly against any cloning. Not sure how you read that from my post I was merely pointing out that Authentic Mech mods do not sell for nearly what "Clone advocates" say they sell for and regulated wood mods can be very expensive and there are no clones for the really high end of those because the cloners cannot re create things like the warpari.
That is not true, the istick does not contain a DNA board, and other than the upcoming innokin device, there is no production DNA device selling at less than $100.
Just wanted to point out the possible hypocrisy. As far as I know there are either no, or very limited sub-$100 authentic regulated mods. No harm, no foul.
Anyway could you explain to me what makes a mechanical an authentic to you. I am not talking trademarks, as that is obvious. I mean what about the shape, switch, design confers the status of authentic to them, as opposed to being a clone of the original screwdriver mod?
No American company can protect their patents or properties from a country like China as they don't respect these laws.
I'm fairly sure this has all been said somewhere in the 157 pages prior, but just my opinion-
Both sides of the argument have completely valid points. Cloning is definitely stealing someone else's work and selling it for profit. So even clone supporters should have that ethical consideration in their mind. While you're enjoying the fruits of their labor, the authentic manufacturers are losing money that they should be making, having already earned it. Until all the political mess settles down and investors start pumping money into US/EU mech manufacturing, they will continue to be expensive because they are expensive to manufacture.
Only a small percentage of vapers can afford authentics, so if you're in the percentage that can afford them, buy them! If you're like me and have a tight budget but you still want the enjoyment that can only come from mechs/RDAs/RBAs, enjoy your clones but please consider putting a little bit of money away every pay period to save for an authentic that you really like. I don't own any authentics yet because I am finishing my degree on my own dime and I'm new to mechs so I'm still trying to figure out what I like best. When I can afford to drop $300 on a nice authentic, I certainly will. Until then, I'm in the land of $40 mechs. Does that make me unethical because I'm buying knock-offs that don't make it readily apparent that what I'm buying is a fake? Sure. I'll have to live with that until I can afford to buy my ethics back.
I would prefer to see cloners decline to use trademarks and serial numbers on the clones they manufacture. Maybe I'm living in a dream world, but I don't think it's a huge favor to ask.
Both sides of the argument have completely valid points. Cloning is definitely stealing someone else's work and selling it for profit. So even clone supporters should have that ethical consideration in their mind. While you're enjoying the fruits of their labor, the authentic manufacturers are losing money that they should be making, having already earned it. Until all the political mess settles down and investors start pumping money into US/EU mech manufacturing, they will continue to be expensive because they are expensive to manufacture.
Only a small percentage of vapers can afford authentics, so if you're in the percentage that can afford them, buy them! If you're like me and have a tight budget but you still want the enjoyment that can only come from mechs/RDAs/RBAs, enjoy your clones but please consider putting a little bit of money away every pay period to save for an authentic that you really like. I don't own any authentics yet because I am finishing my degree on my own dime and I'm new to mechs so I'm still trying to figure out what I like best. When I can afford to drop $300 on a nice authentic, I certainly will. Until then, I'm in the land of $40 mechs. Does that make me unethical because I'm buying knock-offs that don't make it readily apparent that what I'm buying is a fake? Sure. I'll have to live with that until I can afford to buy my ethics back.
I would prefer to see cloners decline to use trademarks and serial numbers on the clones they manufacture. Maybe I'm living in a dream world, but I don't think it's a huge favor to ask.
I can think of five or six off the top of my head from one company that I can go to my local B&M that I can pick up for under $100. Four of them are VV/VW. I can get them even cheaper from online retailers.
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That is not an answer. All mechanicals have the same design as the screwdriver, a simple electronic circuit with a button to activate. Therefore, all mechanicals are clones of the screwdriver by your logic, correct?
I am not trying to be difficult. However, if it is some easy concept please explain it to me? I conceded trademarks are 100% off limits, and do not need another explanation on trademarks. That is a very valid point, and not up for debate in my opinion. Copied Trademarks=Clone
I am just not following your logic on reverse engineering? All mechanicals are basic circuits, and made to fit certain battery sizes. All mechanicals need some switch to activate the device. You surely cannot mean all devices are clones if they use the same size tube? Same size thread? Same layout? Same 510 connector? Same switch? I just do not understand at what point you deem it authentic vs clone?
Next, patent rights are only preserved the first year after offering something for sale. After that the item is free to be copied legally in the United States if the original maker does not file for a patent. So I assume, you are all for 1:1 clones after a one year period as long as it lacks trademarks? If not could you please explain your logic?
You really don't get it, and I can't come up with a simpler explanation...
Your right, I don't get it. I am attempting to understand your argument. You are failing to explain with any logic. This is a logical fallacy via an appeal to emotion. Trademark complaints are logical and valid. Design complaints are something that needs to be defined and differentiated to have a valid and logical argument. Otherwise it is all whiny, touchy-feely emotional BS.
Caravela ..........
Without a copyright, trademark or patent a design is "open source".
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I have eyes and I can read. When something is made to look exactly as something else, has the same logos and even Made In stamp and sold as a clone of something else, how is it so difficult to understand that said product simply isn't a generic or original design atty or mod, but created in order to make money based off of an original design?
None of them are clones, by the way. They aren't grown in a lab...
So if they remove the trademarks they are not a clone? Ok
By the way generally when attempting to make smart comments. You should know what you are talking about. In vernacular use a clone refers to:
Merriam Webster
Clone: a product (such as a computer) that is a copy of another product produced by a well-known company
:: a person or thing that appears to be an exact copy of another person or thing
In the use pertaining to biological science
Meriam Webster
biology : a plant or animal that is grown from one cell of its parent and that has exactly the same genes as its parent
No not open source unless you are ok it with outright theft. So you say this is your favorite mod.. well there are hundreds of authentic mods that are so close
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