Ban on shipping eliquids to AR popping up all over the internet - be prepared

[Lessifer]

and this is where the rub is.
i have been saying for some time we are not vapers any more.
according to the government we are just users of new tobacco
products.
they do not have to call us vapers. they have stolen our unique
identity. when nonsmokers think of tobacco products the first
thing that will come to their mind is cigarettes.
all the threads about vaping when and where have been rendered moot.
its official. we are smokers after all.

regards
mike

Some of us haven't given up that fight yet. Vapor products are not tobacco products. If it weren't for those pesky "children" they wouldn't be getting away with this.

 

[gpjoe]

I didn't see a link to the actual bill, but wondering if it is legal to ship 0mg juice to Arkansas?

I live in Michigan and always assumed this was coming, but figured that the on-line game would also change. I had always invisioned a scenario where I would still be able to buy 0mg, maybe in a concentrate, and mix with my own nic solution. I don't see how they can possibly include 0mg juice in this bill. Unless it has something about it's intended use, which is very ambiguous.

 

[Racehorse]

Some of us haven't given up that fight yet. Vapor products are not tobacco products. If it weren't for those pesky "children" they wouldn't be getting away with this.

Well, vaping is still legal in AR, and almost every store said they are expanding their eliquid lines.....some by as much as 20 brands, now that we can't order online. I kinda figured that would happen.

What I thought was strange is that in last few months, I've ducked into 5 different B&Ms in 3 different cities and not one had anything out on the tables or counters about the upcoming law being passed. I would have had all the phone numbers, a short bill summary, and emails of all the politicians out on every surface of the store if it were mine. I also didn't see much of anything on any of the facebook pages of most of the vendors. /why do you think that is?

 

[Racehorse]

I didn't see a link to the actual bill, but wondering if it is legal to ship 0mg juice to Arkansas?

no. the bill prohibits any online retail or direct online B2C sales of any "vapor product, alternative nicotine product or e-liquid product"

Manufacturers in AR can ship outside the state, just not to anyone who lives here.

Here is the bill if you want to read it:
http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/2015/2015R/Acts/Act1235.pdf

It started out as one of those "we can't protect minors" but in truth, we have about 2 years before they will decide how to tax it, so this just coralled all those little ejuice bottles in a way that can now be kept track on, as inventory on shelves in stores that hold permits. (control it like alcohol and tobacco and later tax it.)

I pretty much DIY everything, although there were 2 vendors I did use once in a while.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

Instead of just blathering emotionally like some responders, let me give a bit more Reasoning Why.

Fla simply, as a matter of Fact, does not go all willy nilly to pass some Save our Citizens BS laws like many other states seem to. There are even numerous municipalities here that have Rescinded Stop Light camera laws.

We have some of the least restrictive gun laws in the country.

The last time I can remember the State/Local government going nuts and Immediately passing some Save our Citizens law, was them jumping right on the synthetic {Other stuff}/bath crystals criminalization. Of course, people in Miami smoked it and eat people's faces from it too. It's kind of hard for the lawmakers to ignore That on the evening news.

So go ahead and pound the messenger 'cause you can't deal with the message. That's pretty common these days too.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[Racehorse]

Instead of just blathering emotionally like some responders, let me give a bit more Reasoning Why.

Fla simply, as a matter of Fact, does not go all willy nilly to pass some Save our Citizens BS laws like many other states seem to. There are even numerous municipalities here that have Rescinded Stop Light camera laws.

We have some of the least restrictive gun laws in the country.

The last time I can remember the State/Local government going nuts and Immediately passing some Save our Citizens law, was them jumping right on the synthetic weed/bath crystals criminalization. Of course, people in Miami smoked it and eat people's faces from it too. It's kind of hard for the lawmakers to ignore That on the evening news.

So go ahead and pound the messenger 'cause you can't deal with the message. That's pretty common these days too.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

No pounding the messenger at all. If FL never passes any anti vaping laws, regulations or bans, and never creates marketing bans, user fees, or taxes anything having to do with it, I will be very happy for you.

 

[Nuclear Cowboy]

Instead of just blathering emotionally like some responders, let me give a bit more Reasoning Why.

Fla simply, as a matter of Fact, does not go all willy nilly to pass some Save our Citizens BS laws like many other states seem to. There are even numerous municipalities here that have Rescinded Stop Light camera laws.

We have some of the least restrictive gun laws in the country.

The last time I can remember the State/Local government going nuts and Immediately passing some Save our Citizens law, was them jumping right on the synthetic {Other stuff}/bath crystals criminalization. Of course, people in Miami smoked it and eat people's faces from it too. It's kind of hard for the lawmakers to ignore That on the evening news.

So go ahead and pound the messenger 'cause you can't deal with the message. That's pretty common these days too.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

Only time will tell but things like this usually start with one or two states and then gain momentum. BTW, AR is very lax on gun laws too.

 

[sd3614]

no. the bill prohibits any online retail or direct online B2C sales of any "vapor product, alternative nicotine product or e-liquid product"

Manufacturers in AR can ship outside the state, just not to anyone who lives here.

Here is the bill if you want to read it:
http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/2015/2015R/Acts/Act1235.pdf

.

But next year they can't ship to Indiana unless they meet our requirements and pay money to the State. You see where this is going?

I wish they would just tax this crap and leave it be

 

[Jingles]

I wish some lawyer would take the issue to court. Where are all these harmed children? Make them prove that children are actually being harmed from vapor products. Make them prove that thousands of children are actually ordering eliquid online! I heard that one child every day ends up in the hospital due to laundry detergent pods. I bet you can order those off of Amazon.

 

[Lessifer]

Well, vaping is still legal in AR, and almost every store said they are expanding their eliquid lines.....some by as much as 20 brands, now that we can't order online. I kinda figured that would happen.

What I thought was strange is that in last few months, I've ducked into 5 different B&Ms in 3 different cities and not one had anything out on the tables or counters about the upcoming law being passed. I would have had all the phone numbers, a short bill summary, and emails of all the politicians out on every surface of the store if it were mine. I also didn't see much of anything on any of the facebook pages of most of the vendors. /why do you think that is?

I think some of it is ignorance, some of it is apathy, some may be not wanting to scare potential customers. I don't really know. Like you, if I were a shop owner, I would have literature everywhere.

 

[stevegmu]

No it isn't.

Only if you live in some mamby pamby ... state where You the populace have shown your state officials with your past lack of complaint, that you wish for them to be your Mommies and Daddies. And now, with the Anti-EStuff laws They Think they're doing just that and Now, since it impacts You Directly, you Finally have a problem with it.

It you can't get your state governments back on track, MOVE.

I don't think we'll see any of this stupidity in Fla. It's anti business for one thing and we have a pro business Governor.

It's just been unheld in FEDERAL court that it's Still Against The Law in Fla. for a Dr. or even a mental health professional to even Ask You if you own a firearm. Against The Law.

Gun owner lists being released to the media? That would get you a Felony sentence here. It's a Felony in Fla. for there to even Exist a Gun Owner's list.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

I'm pretty sure Florida has a big tax proposal on the books for e-cigs and liquid...

 

[juggler86]

It was either that, or have the FDA do it. It will be treated like alcohol and tobacco.



MBV will have to break the law to ship to you.

I personally haven't put any of "my" vendors in that situation, esp. smaller ones that unlike MBV, may not even be aware of the law yet.

Aslong as the vendor isnt is AR, there is nothing the state could do them, since its only a state law

 

[Racehorse]

Aslong as the vendor isnt is AR, there is nothing the state could do them, since its only a state law

While it is true that some laws have no force of themselves beyond the jurisdiction of the State which enacts them, that won't help much when I cant' get a vendor(s) to ship to me.

If you look at different firearms laws in different states, there are all sorts of acceptance, non acceptance, reciprocity, limited reciprocity, etc. going on.

I imagine that some vendors just will not want to mess with a law that is passed in another state. It's not worth the hassle to them, should they be contacted by the ATC attorney here or something. Just like I am domiciled in the state of AR, ie. I am a citizen and vote here, etc. so not sure I would want the hassle either of breaking the law of my resident state over a bottle of eliquid.

I really don't know how this will all work, as it does seem rather impossible to administer..

 

[crxess]

Still say this needs to go to court. No Federal regulation = State induced restraint of trade. This is the same kind of BS that has been thrown out in Cal. several times.

I also fully believe the mandate goes far beyond any state officials intellectual abilities. This was likely handed to them along with a nice chunk of change.

Follow the money.

 

[skoony]

Still say this needs to go to court. No Federal regulation = State induced restraint of trade. This is the same kind of BS that has been thrown out in Cal. several times.

I also fully believe the mandate goes far beyond any state officials intellectual abilities. This was likely handed to them along with a nice chunk of change.

Follow the money.

there is no restraint of trade.
this not like the Telsa case.
you can freely trade all you want.
as everyone is required to abide by the same rules
in state or out of state.
the only exemptions that can be valid is if
the rules for out of state vendors was different than
in state vendors or it can be proven the state doesn't
have a vested interest or the laws restrict specific
vendors from selling like items that other vendors
are selling with no restrictions.

regards
mike

 

[Racehorse]

Still say this needs to go to court.

Once something becomes a law, the courts is the only place to challenge it.

This is why people suggesting suing the FDA don't get it. They haven't passed any regulations yet, there is nothing to litigate.

There have been a number of us, over the years, who have pointed out that all these things will eventually end up in the courts.
All the whining and complaining in the world doesn't put together a legal fund. Talk is cheap.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen a lot of "solidarity" in the vaping industry in general, few have gotten together or combined as a unified entity, funded by the businesses that operate in our specific industry....that is what trade associations are for, to combine resources for education, donations, lobbying, litigation, PACs, etc.

There is tremendous $$$ power in this industry and the things they could have already accomplished, under a unified body, and didn't is a huge lost opportunity (in terms of commercial, political, legal, economic and development issues)

EVERY single business in this industry should already be part of one larger industry trade organization. Instead, it looks like many are just busy competing with each other and selling stuff.



As for taxes, I never thought, even when I first started vaping, that some component of ecigs wouldn't be taxed. I pay taxes on food here, for goodness sake, and on my truck, on gasoline, on my travel trailer, on every single consumer item I purchase.

I guess I never expected that vaping products would somehow miraculously be an exception?

In states that brag about low income tax, it is even worse! They make up for it somewhere, and sales taxes are the most regressive, and hurt working people and the poor.

 

[zoiDman]

If the FDA pushes for signature delivery for e-liquids bought on the internet, it seems the Arkansas law would no longer be needed to prevent online sales to minors, so the section prohibiting online sales would be easy to reverse...

Why would the FDA push for Signature Deliveries for Internet Sales?

Why wouldn't they just do what they have Said they want to do, and what is at the Core of the FSPTCA? To make the sale of "Tobacco Products" Face-to-Face Only.

 

[stevegmu]

Why would the FDA push for Signature Deliveries for Internet Sales?

Why wouldn't they just do what they have Said they want to do, and what is at the Core of the FSPTCA? To make the sale of "Tobacco Products" Face-to-Face Only.

That could never be enforced. Signature delivery can be- through agreements with USPS, FedEx, UPS...

 

[skoony]

I guess I never expected that vaping products would somehow miraculously be an exception?

we are not exempt here in Minnesota.
we pay a 7.5% sales tax just like everything else
except food(excluding pop and snackfood and ready to eat items),clothes and,
medicine.there a few sundry exemptions such as precooked
grocery deli items meant to be taken home.

doing my fare share regards
mike

 

[GranFumador]

U.S. Constitution: Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:

[The Congress shall have Power] To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Should make for an interesting federal court case.