Batteries reading 0 volts

[Dontbweird]

I have 2 imren 40 amp 3000mah batteries and 2 cheap no name (xiamen) single battery 18650 chargers. I've only used each battery 2 or 3 times each and now they don't work at all. The green light is on in the charger indicating they are charged yet my multimeter reads literally 0 volts on both batteries. I ran them on a .12 ohm build. What gives? I need help!!

 

[Bunnykiller]

how far down did you run the batteries when using them?? depleting the batteries below 3.2V when in use has a tendancy to shorten the life span of the battery. If you ran the battery down below 2V while using it, the battery is pretty much toast...

heres another thought... after "charging", have you tried them? were they dead when tested in use? sometimes meters fail too...

 

[Dontbweird]

No I'm sure my meter is functioning fine. Yes I tried the batteries right after coming off the charger. The batteries I have that work read perfectly on my multimeter. I'm not sure how low I ran them but what I don't understand is why they literally read 0 voltage. I have a fieldpiece meter...they are very reputable..

 

[K_Tech]

I don't know anything about those Imren cells, but that sort of behavior in other batteries often means that the protection circuit has kicked in and basically shut the battery down. If it's working properly, the protection circuit should reset once the actual cell voltage rebounds, but if it was over-discharged or the protection circuit was damaged, it won't reset.

There are ways to revive a "dead" cell, but I would advise against it. Something went wrong, and fiddling with a questionable 18650 can be hazardous.

And although this is coming a day late and a dollar short, think about investing in a better charger. They're not that expensive, especially considering how much we can invest in our batteries. A good charger will cost you about as much as a set of 4 18650s.

 

[Midnightalaskan]

0v on a lithium battery is equal to death.

Although there is a slight chance to revive them in a "wall wort" style dumb charger. I advise against it.

Usually when a lithium battery goes to 0, it's toast.

As an airsofter, I use lipo's exclusively and when they go to 0... There is no joy.

 

[suprtrkr]

Yeah, those are done. You should junk those batteries, you're staring a serious safety issue in the face. I would definitely suggest a better charger-- I use an Xtar VC4-- and get some brand name batteries instead of those rewraps, Sony VTC4s or Samsung 25Rs. Buy them from a reputable dealer so you get real ones. Try to avoid believing the label hype; there's no such thing as a 40 amp 18650. At best, that's a pulse rating. It might be nothing more than advertising. 3000mAh makes me think they're probably 15A CDR batteries; 3k is a lot of storage for even a 20A cell. My Sony VTC4s are 2100 and the 25Rs are 2500. You don't say what mod you're using, but if it's a mechanical you killed those batteries with your .12 build. That's far too low for a mech, it draws 35 amps. That's too low a build for safety and battery life even for a two-battery box mechanical unless you're using LG HB6s, which are honest 30A batteries. What kills batteries is heat. Asking them for that kind of amp draw heats then up. Even if they don't vent, you're still stressing them.

 

[kaahn]

I agree with @suprtrkr. Get some good batteries. One thing I have learned is never skimp on batteries. You can get clones of everything else but when it comes to batteries never cut corners. Always get the real deal. Good luck!

 

[somdcomputerguy]

I was referred to this site - Authentic AW Batteries - RTD Vapor by a very respectable member here (thx baditude!). I would recommend veering from purple Efest batteries (I've heard (read) both positives and negatives about this brand, but more negatives), and go for Nitecore or Xtar chargers. I would also recommend AW batteries. The brands that suptrkr recommended surely are just as well too, but I haven't used them.

 

[Dontbweird]

Problem is that
1. It is an unprotected battery and
2. It is an inr battery not lithium ion
Why does nobody have an answer to this..its really bothering me. Could running a battery too hard cause it to short circuit internally and read no volts?

 

[crxess]

Need to use that meter of yous on the Charger - sounds like it is what is crapping out.
I have gone through a few in the 3yrs. I have been vaping.
Solder connections on the boards to the springs fail all the time. Film on the connections will keep them from passing a charge. Several problems are possible.

 

[Dontbweird]

What would I be checking for when using the meter on the charger and how do you do it?

 

[mamabear15]

+1 @suprtrkr ... OP, unless you've got batteries in series, which from the sound of it you don't, that setup will kill any battery extant today. The only differences that brand, et al. make in that statement is timeline- how fast they'll die on you- and disaster scale of how bad it's likely to be when they do. On these, I'd dispose of them and call it lucky that a 0V reading is all that happened, get yourself some good batteries now (all the recommendations above are good - vtc4, 25r, those two take my top votes in that order) and have a decent charger on your ASAP list...and try a higher build. Frankly, voltage drop is so noticeable at those supersubohm builds you've been running, that the vape would probably be just as satisfying and probably almost as "powerful" to you at .4! Much more favorable face-keeping odds that way, too

 

[crxess]

why are you even vaping a setup like this if you have no clue how to tell when the batteries need to be swapped out?
That's like trying to drive through town blindfolded.

Meter should read 4.2v at the +/- terminals of the charger with a battery in place. any lower and you are reading battery voltage not charging.

 

[roxynoodle]

Problem 1: those batteries did not even come close to the amp draw you were pulling from them. Those are not 40A batteries. They are probably not even 20A. Yes, manufacturers lie about specs (some of them).

Problem 2: the charger is poor quality.

Problem 3: the build is too low for a single 18650. If you must build that low you need a parallel dual box (unregulated) or a high power regulated mod (150W or more).

Buy some Sony vtc4 batteries, a decent charger (a Nitecore is good and inexpensive) and a mod that can handle that build. If you don't want to buy a new mod, take that build up to 0.2 ohm or higher.

 

[Mooch]

Problem is that
1. It is an unprotected battery and
2. It is an inr battery not lithium ion
Why does nobody have an answer to this..its really bothering me. Could running a battery too hard cause it to short circuit internally and read no volts?

INR batteries are lithium-ion.
Along with ICR, IMR, NCA, LiPo, etc., all are lithium-ion. They all just use different methods of construction or variations on the lithium-ion chemistry (that determine their degree of safety when vaping).

INR aren't quite as safe as IMR batteries, but they are safer than ICR/LiPo's. Samsung 25R's are INR but pretty well everyone trusts them.

I've been testing batteries for over 20 years and have never seen one go to zero volts when stressed unless it vented badly or burst. And I have severely stressed and destructively tested many, many of them. A battery, even if shorted out for several minutes, will rebound back up to some voltage above zero volts once the short is removed. There are unlikely, but possible, scenarios though for a zero volt battery.

- A low quality battery could "fuse" itself by melting part of its internal connections.
- A low quality battery with a CID (current interrupting device) or PTC (positive temperature coefficient, i.e., temperature protection) device inside, as part of the cell's construction, could fail to return to normal after one of these protection devices were tripped.
- There are counterfeits of rewrapped batteries that use a very tiny battery inside with wire leads soldered to the battery top and case (negative). The rest of the space inside the 18650 case is filled with sand so the weight is about right for an 18650. The battery looks and feels OK but the tiny gauge wiring inside can become unsoldered under heavy load.

No idea though why your cells are at zero volts though.

 

[Mooch]

Actually, there is another scenario....
Some cells are designed to have a particular component (the "separator") melt at a very high temperature, about 120°C-130°C to permanently shut down the cell. This is done to prevent the cell from reaching a temperature where it would vent or possibly go into thermal runaway.

I haven't seen this function working in any cells I've tested but it exists. Your 0.12 ohm build with those 20A (at best) Imren cells could have easily brought them up to very high temperatures.

 

[Bunnykiller]

Problem is that
1. It is an unprotected battery and
2. It is an inr battery not lithium ion
Why does nobody have an answer to this..its really bothering me. Could running a battery too hard cause it to short circuit internally and read no volts?

yes... the battery developes something called "tendrils" a crystal like structure that grows in size as the battery ages ( thats why they slowly loose their capacity)... once the "tendrils" create a path from the anode to the cathode, it drains the battery and will keep the battery from charging even tho the charger shows its working... its rare to see it occur in new batteries, but when it does, its spectacular...

 

[Hitcat44]

Cheap Falsely Spec'd Batteries.
Too Low a Build for the Mod & Battery Combo.
All equals a Real Bad Deal.
Thankfully they Gave Up instead of Blew Up.
As said above,
Get Quality Batteries (ie. VTC4 or LG HG2) from a Reputable Vendor (ie. RTD).
Get a Quality Charger (ie. Nitecore)
Check Steam Engine to make sure you have a Safe & Efficient Build that is within correct Parameters for your Rig.

 

[suprtrkr]

Actually, there is another scenario....
Some cells are designed to have a particular component (the "separator") melt at a very high temperature, about 120°C-130°C to permanently shut down the cell. This is done to prevent the cell from reaching a temperature where it would vent or possibly go into thermal runaway.

I haven't seen this function working in any cells I've tested but it exists. Your 0.12 ohm build with those 20A (at best) Imren cells could have easily brought them up to very high temperatures.

Learn somethimg new every day, I didn't know that. Makes sense from the engineering viewpoint, assuming suitable materials are available and could be incorporated within the price/functionality targets; but obviously they can be. Now I wish those batteries were on your bench. I want to know what happened. ;-)

 

[somdcomputerguy]

Some cells are designed to have a particular component (the "separator") melt at a very high temperature, about 120°C-130°C to permanently shut down the cell.

Cool. Kinda like a 'heat fuse'. I suppose this 'separator' would perform it's function due to any temperature rise, like for example a battery being stored and covered with a blanket or jacket while it's in a closed windowed car that's regularly in direct sunlight, or something like that?

Learn something new every day..

That's pretty much the primary reason I love this forum and it's members. I have learned bunches just by reading thru other threads and particular posts, and the few times that I asked a question, I got educated.