Battery Charger-MC-3000
- Thread starter Steve W Pedersen
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It certainly does charge 21700 cells @Jumpin' In..., was one of the reasons why I upgraded to one. As my older Nitecore SC4 just wouldn't do 21700 cells.
I know I'm resurrecting and old thread, but thought this was interesting and explained in very understandable detail the positives and negatives about charging Li ion batteries to lower than 4.2v. I think this illustrates what @susieqz and @Mooch were talking about with lower charging cutoff voltages and how it relates to cell life. I can't verify the accuracy of this vid, I think that would take Mooch, but I found the video interesting and thought the presenter showed a fair assessment on both sides.
The only question I have now, besides if this is accurate, is how the MC3000 performs balancing and if charging to 4.2v on occasion would be advised. I just don't know and am not really qualified to test this.
The only question I have now, besides if this is accurate, is how the MC3000 performs balancing and if charging to 4.2v on occasion would be advised. I just don't know and am not really qualified to test this.
thanks for posting this @Jazzman
i really wish i could hear it but i'm getting no sound.
i'll try on another device.
i do hope @Mooch comments.
right now i'm charging to 4.05. but i may up this to 4.1 for some batteries. my 30qs work exactly like i need, but other batteries need too many recharges, for reasons i don't understand
i really wish i could hear it but i'm getting no sound.
i'll try on another device.
i do hope @Mooch comments.
right now i'm charging to 4.05. but i may up this to 4.1 for some batteries. my 30qs work exactly like i need, but other batteries need too many recharges, for reasons i don't understand
To recap the vid, he had data for different levels of battery charging and the batteries charged to charged 4.1v last 2x as long as 4.2v charging and the batteries charged to 4.05 lasted 3x as long. BTW, I just clicked the video in my post and the sound was OK for me.
The only real issue he raised is if the charger could adequately balance the cells during charging. If not the imbalance would grow over time. Some chargers can and some can't and his answer was to occasionally charge to 4.2, but this would only apply to multi-cell packs which we don't use in vaping.
So it backs up exactly what you and Mooch had talked about. Not a big deal really, but it's an interesting and easy to understand video.
Yes, charging to a lower voltage can increase cycle life. But the number of times you need to recharge increases due to the lower capacity of the cells due to the lower charging voltage. This can counteract any gains from charging to a lower voltage. Unfortunately it takes months of testing to figure out if your method of charging and vaping would benefit from a reduced charge voltage.
Balancing is never required when using a round-cell charger to charge cells individually as each cell is automatically “balanced” to all others because they're all charged to the same voltage, typically 4.20V but it doesn’t matter as long as they’re all charged to the same voltage.
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Balance charging doesn't apply unless the cells are in a series string and remain so while being charged, which isn't the case when you put them in a charger that has separate bays for individual cells.
There's an updated Android app for the MC3000, released the beginning of October.
Just downloaded it myself and still got to have a play with it, but this latest version is supposed to support Android 10.
Just downloaded it myself and still got to have a play with it, but this latest version is supposed to support Android 10.
Correct. That's why I said it would only apply to multi-cell packs, which we don't use in vaping. I just found that interesting. I probably could have said that clearer and avoided the confusion.
I guess my question is if 3x the cycles would offset the increased number of cycles needed because of lower charge termination voltage, if the charger algorithm of when and how much voltage reduces shortly before charge termination has any effect, and if his theory of how degradation increases due to scaling build up increasing with higher voltage charges is even valid and how much effect does this have. I don't know enough about batteries to answer that, so ask the Mooch.
Good find. I'll have to DL it and check it out. I thought they were done with all updates. It's good to know there is still some work being done for the MC3000. Closing in on a year now and the MC3000 has had flawless performance for me, so still liking the charger.
I have no idea if he actually did the complete 1500 cycles himself or if the data graph he showed came from another source, but the graph did reference ebike.com in the lower right of the chart, so maybe he or his group did? Not sure. I'm also unsure if the method of discharge (CDR) has any bearing on the method of charging as it relates to battery life. I would think that would be a different subject than charging methods and I would assume the discharge rate could have a big effect on battery life.
I think the more interesting question is if the difference in scaling on the negative electrode between charging termination voltage of 4.05 and 4.2 has a significant effect, minor effect, or virtually no effect. Dunno, but I'd be interested to know the answer.
He has another video showing a method of testing cells for fakes other than just visual inspection matching different battery characteristics against manufacturers specs after completing a full discharge cycle. I found that interesting also. It seemed simple enough, but very time consuming.
There are too many undefined variables to answer those questions. It is a MUCH more complicated topic than that video makes it seem. Temperatures, charge current, charge voltage, discharge current, discharge cutoff voltages, battery chemistry, age of the battery, etc., all have an effect on cycle life.
Storage for any amount of time (between daily uses or for months) at higher voltages does accelerate particular aging mechanisms in a battery though.
I believe it does. I've watched what one of the largest car manufactures in the world does with the plug-in hybrid packs. I have software capable of getting all the real-time values from the BMS. They consider that pack (a series string of 96 large-format cells) "full" at barely over 4.0V per cell. I'm sure they're leaving a bit of headroom for more charge from regenerative braking, but I've never seen cell voltages above 4.05V. They also consider them empty at somewhere between 3.55 and 3.60V. Conservative? Yes. But there's a good reason for that: The warranty on that battery is 8 years or 80,000 miles.
That's a really good point about regenerative braking for automotive battery systems and needing headroom for a full charge condition. And since regenerative breaking is a part of the user "feel" of combustion engine braking (really quite important for the user experience) they can't just use an algorithm to only start regenerative breaking at something like the 80% charge level. I guess they could sink the regenerative voltage and maintain user "feel", but that would add weight, components, heat, and complexity.
Now if there was only regenerative vaping
A few months after I switched from smoking to vaping, my wife said I looked 10 years younger. I felt that way too.
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