Battery Info & Safety Sticky

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Sense Field

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Thread for discussion all things batteries, chargers and battery/PV/APV/mod safety...because of the way the posts below moved I have to edit this post to explain. The forwarded messages originally appeared in the Telescope product announcement thread. I started moving messages with SenseFields post below. Use this thread for general battery & PV/APV safety discussion - dannoman



I had figured SMOKtech did not put a venting hole in the bottom because of the firing button and this is what they told me:

[5:06:06 AM] SMOKTECH: there is no need , the telescope's buttom and threads all can vent , vent is no problem for sure , if u search u will find that a lot of mechanical mod of this kind on the USA don't have visiable venting hole as well

The bottom threads do not vent. Take the bottom tube off...wrap your lips around it and blow. Nothing escapes through the bottom threads. I imagine it will be the same for the other threads.

I don't think that is a "hot" spring in there either. I has plastic on it...never seen a collapsible spring with plastic on it.
 
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Drew_

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The bottom threads do not vent. Take the bottom tube off...wrap your lips around it and blow. Nothing escapes through the bottom threads. I imagine it will be the same for the other threads.

I don't think that is a "hot" spring in there either. I has plastic on it...never seen a collapsible spring with plastic on it.

Yeah this is one of those mods that could create a lot of "fireworks"; it's a nice looking mod but I think I'll pass, just not worth worrying about it to me.
 

Phi

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There is a very tiny amount of venting capacity through the upper-threads and a small but noticeable amount of venting capacity through the bottom-threads/switch-assembly. I estimate that the total venting capacity of the Telescope is approximately equal to 30 to 50% of the venting capacity of my VV Torpedo. If the Telescope had no venting capacity at all, then I would probably be concerned enough to take thirty seconds to drill a small hole in the side; but I am not inclined to do so now. I've been vaping for about three and a half years, and the Telescope is, hands down, my most satisfying battery-mod purchase to date.
 

Sense Field

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Phi

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Sense,
According to what information are you making the assertion that the venting capacity of the Telescope is "not nearly enough"? Do you have a link to some pertinent scientific testing that could provide some insight into this matter? I'd also be interested in any information you have regarding the likelihood of failure on the use of a single protected battery (which is the only quantity and type of battery that should be used in a device like this).
 

burns_erin

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Sheesh, some people would complain if you hung 'em with a new rope;)

I dont feel overly concerned about the venting on this. Single battery, safer chemistry, not in contact unless you are actively pushing the button (or if you are dumb like me and put a button top upside down), and I have a kick in it, which if I understand the circuitry correctly has it's own form of protection. Most "vented" mod seem inadequately and inappropriately placed anyway :shrug:
 

Sense Field

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rdsok

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As someone that has seen first hand what a catastrophic LiPo battery failure can do... I would never scoff at others that have a safety concern about a device that uses any type of battery even a common household battery can cause damage and lithium based batteries are several times more potentially dangerous.

I do believe the concerns over if this device has enough vent capacity if an event happens is certainly valid... on the surface I would also have the same concern even if I couldn't produce scientific evidence to support that concern.

On the other hand... the hype over battery failure has been blown out of proportion... not to the point of being ridiculous, but certainly it is overstated. These types of batteries need to be show the respect they deserve or problems can happen. They should never be overcharged or over discharged.. any type of damage to them and they should be properly disposed of. If they show any signs of bulging, dents or other damage... again they should be properly disposed of.

Battery failures do happen... don't dismiss the potential dangers they present... but at the same time don't overstate the dangers either.

Additional vent holes added to the sides or bottom would easily address these concerns. If asked if I would use this PV, I would say yes... but I also wouldn't feel confident enough to recommend it to others that aren't familiar with proper battery safety procedures.
 

burns_erin

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Ah, yes, I forgot that last thing. I invested in one of those smart chargers to, to keep my batteries from being over charged.

But I'll freely admit, we are all shaped by our experiences. The only bad battery experience I had was one that got stuck in the on position while in my pocket. The telescope I'm mire comfortable with because it can't do that.
 

rdsok

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Ah, yes, I forgot that last thing. I invested in one of those smart chargers to, to keep my batteries from being over charged.

But I'll freely admit, we are all shaped by our experiences. The only bad battery experience I had was one that got stuck in the on position while in my pocket. The telescope I'm mire comfortable with because it can't do that.

Well, it can't get stuck as long as you remember to lock it... don't ask how I know this... lol
 

Briar

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You know, guys, there is a very easy solution to safety concerns with this pup: a fuse. There are several places where you can get one for mods. I ordered it, and I intend to use it. I'll also get a Kick when it's available again.

But, I am a safety fanatic. Danno, Chris, you know I love you guys, but I feel like I have to speak how I feel about this one... I think there should be vents in this mod, and a hot spring. It's not that difficult to put four decent-sized holes in the tube (I am trying to figure out how to do it myself without screwing up the threading - I've never drilled in metal before), and I am sure folks would be willing to pay 10 bucks more for a hot spring if that's what it takes.

I read everything available on venting etc. I am not an engineer, but just from comparing what was recommended as ECF "official" criteria for venting with what we have here, the venting through the threads is not sufficient. Not even close. Not a precise analysis, no, but, I bet, accurate nonetheless.

The manufacturer's comments about many American mods not having vent holes, etc, are not to the point - the fact that some American mods aren't up to ideal safety standards doesn't excuse the manufacturer from following them. And I don't see any good reasons for them not to follow them.

Nor is it a reasonable argument that these things only happen rarely. One is too many if it can be easily prevented - as I said, I don't think that drilling four largish holes on the bottom sides of the mod is all that difficult for a factory to do. I would think that from the manufacturer's perspective, the safety issue would be a fantastic selling point, and would go a long way towards dispelling preconceptions regarding Chinese products - wouldn't that be a great thing for a relatively minimal investment? On the other hand, imagine what would happen if one of these, unlikely though it admittedly is (unlikely, but possible), actually blew up and injured someone. Aside from cost in human suffering - can we really afford this kind of publicity, and does the manufacturer really need that kind of stigma? I would think that at this point the market is competitive enough for that to be a real concern, no?

To be fair, all mods but two that I know of do not follow those safety recommendations, unfortunately - God only knows why - and those that do are quite expensive. A small hole on the bottom, arguably, can make the situation more dangerous rather than less, depending on circumstances.

If it was me, I would sit on the manufacturer hard to implement the above mentioned safety features: four vent holes on the sides and a hot spring. I am sorry if I sound critical - but I honestly feel that making it safer is both doable and best for everyone in the long run...

All that said, I love my Telescope. Just got it in the mail today, and it's very comfortable, very satisfying to hold somehow, and looks great with my Stardust - sort of like a shiny missile. :D The finish is really nice. I love the fact that I don't need an adapter for eGo stuff, and I really look forward to using the Kick with it. It is just the right weight for me to hold comfortably with the battery in it. I think I won't be using the 18650 in it. It's a little too big for my hand with it. 18490 will do fine, and I have some of those from my ProVari. I expected the switch to be harder and more "clicky", but it's really easy to activate, while still not activating when standing up. Ordinarily I like clicky switches, but this is quite perfect for me without clickiness. Any harder, and my finger would get tired, I think. I really, really like this thing - to the point that I keep reaching for it all the time, even though my fuse hasn't been delivered yet.

Currently, safety-wise, I feel that the fuse, and/or the Kick, will be sufficient for me not to be concerned - in addition to all the normal safety precautions applicable to the batteries. Most (maybe all) battery problems are caused either by faulty batteries, or by hard shorts. The first can be guarded against by proper battery care and buying good batteries in the first place, and the second can (and should, especially with a PV like this) be guarded against by checking the resistance of the cartomizer before using it... Given all that, I am not worried for myself. I am wondering, however, about the less-than-paranoid. :D

Sorry for the dissertations, but this is a fairly important subject. I want to emphasize, that I am not being negative about this product - not at all. I love it. I would, in fact, recommend it - but not without an add-on safety feature like the fuse. It is possible that I am wrong, of course - wouldn't be the first time. :D

But I honestly do not understand why such simple and ultimately inexpensive safety features were not incorporated into the product in the first place, and I'd like to see them in the next release, if there is one. Chris, Dan - you guys work so hard to help improve products, and you have a great success rate - maybe you can influence them in that direction?

Also, in that vein, it would be good if GV sold that fuse - and recommended buying it along with this PV. And a short reference about battery safety on the web site would be nice...

OK, I'm really, really, really done now. Go ahead and throw tomatoes if you want. :D
 

Sense Field

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rdsok

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Briar... a question and a request...

Does your 18xxx size battery have just a little slop side to side before you screw on the top/bottom?

- The reason for the question is that if a battery was to vent, a little bit of slop around the sides would allow the gases to go around the sides of the battery to escape where vent holes are at.

Can you take and post a pic of the bottom cap looking at it from the spring side?

- Quality isn't an issue as long as I can see the spring and clearance area down on the bottom. If there is enough space, drilling holes in the bottom cap should be easier since it would be flat instead of rounded as the sides of the tube would be, IF there is room for the holes and drill bit to fit.
 

Sense Field

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rdsok

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As Sense has pointed out... The spring is not part of the circuit, so it wouldn't get hot from an over current situation. Even if it were, I don't believe that would matter either because the connection to the battery would mainly be from the post in the "switch" in the bottom and even if there was a hot spring that could collapse, it wouldn't stop the connection through the post in the cap switch.

A hot spring only works in a tube mod where it ( the spring ) is the only connection on one end.
 

Sense Field

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rdsok

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there is no replacement guys so that wont be happening and the mod is just fine if this bothers you so much dont use it, others are and are happy. going back and fourth and beating a dead horse is not helping.

I can't agree with the "beating a dead horse" part here... discussing a potential safety issue is never that and I hope you take the discussion seriously enough to at least pass the concerns onto Smok for consideration on future versions
 

badkolo

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as mentioned before there is space there, there is space form the button, there is space form the 2 parts screwing together, so its not as if its totaly sealed. lord mentioned this earlier, i do pass it on and even they felt it wasnt needed for this particular mod, in the future if they chnage it great, these are as they are, i appreciate the discussion but its not all doom and gloom here.
 
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Drew_

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Obviously it's not all gloom and doom; there where twelve pages of positive comments before I even brought up the safety issue. It's a bit strange to be accused of acting "hysterical" just for inquiring about safety issues as basic and important as these. Some have mentioned they have a "kick" so they aren't worried, well most people that buy the mod won't have that.
 

digunderground

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I took a good look at the spring, it doesn't look collapsable. It's glued in, so if it did collapse, which I don't think it will, the mod would be rendered useless.

In order for a collapsable (Hot Spring) to actually work, I believe it has to be in contact with the battery. This spring is not in contact with the battery. There is a plastic spacer on top of the spring. I've never seen a hot spring set up like this.

I just started using the "Holocron Labs ShortStop" it's like a fuse mod, but reusable. I love it to say the least. I intentionally pushed too much voltage through it and it simply cuts off the current and resets when it "cools". For $15, i feel much safer using my mods in single or even stacked configs. I didnt want to post a link to the supplier, but you can easily find it with a search since there is only one vendor at the moment.
 
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