Battery Info & Safety Sticky

[Briar]

Of course it's not - doom and gloom, I mean.

It's a great PV - great looks, great feel, great function, great price. Note that I did get it, and I do use it all the time, right along with my umpteen Twists. LOL IMO, if someone has any safety concerns, it easily alleviated with the fuse that costs about 8 bucks - no fuss, no muss, no more paranoia. Ultimately, getting good batteries, taking care of them properly, and making sure the cartos are not shorted out is far, far more important than vent holes or even fancy circuitry.

I am a self-admitted perfectionist and paranoic - and my discussion was in no way directed towards GV in any case, I just have a bit of a hard time understanding why the producer would not put extra safety precautionary features in when it's so easy to do... And please remember: I am the first to say that I could very well be very wrong.

I'm happy GV brought this pup out, I'm enjoying it thoroughly. For that matter, I have five (I think) new things from GV I'm checking out right now (all at the same time - you have really unloaded on us toy-fanatics lately!), and I'm pretty much in love with all of them, God help me. I have to say that I'm no longer a Startdust-exclusive fanatic. I love the last three tanks/cartos that dropped recently. Between the ViVi mini (that actually tastes better than the large ViVi), the E1, and the SCT, not even counting the Apollo from Alpha, I can't even say which I like better - they are all great, and are all going into my arsenal. And the E1 looks really, really beautiful, too.

It's been great lately - GV rocks.

It's just my personal philosophy that everything can be improved, and there is no such thing as too much safety. And, btw, this is something that all manufacturers should be taking under consideration, imo. Chinese and American alike. Most APVs out there are not, in fact, following ECF safety recommendations - and the reasons for that elude me entirely. I would think that the Chinese are better positioned to implement something like that as standard features...

as mentioned before there is space there, there is space form the button, there is space form the 2 parts screwing together, so its not as if its totaly sealed. lord mentioned this earlier, i do pass it on and even they felt it wasnt needed for this particular mod, in the future if they chnage it great, these are as they are, i appreciate the discussion but its not all doom and gloom here.

 

[badkolo]

i agree as well, if oyu look at the vmax you see 5 holes on the bottom, form what they discussed with me they felt the way the telescope is designed it wasnt needed for this mod, but i let them know what the people would like to see for the future for all mods in general.

 

[AnsonJames]

The bottom threads do not vent. Take the bottom tube off...wrap your lips around it and blow. Nothing escapes through the bottom threads. I imagine it will be the same for the other threads.

I don't think that is a "hot" spring in there either. I has plastic on it...never seen a collapsible spring with plastic on it.

The Megladon has something similar.

 

[AnsonJames]

Whatever qualms I have about the of Smoktech as a company I have to say this looks pretty nice.
I was looking for an excuse to buy a kick and this looks to be the perfect match for it.

Incidentally, Smoktech do monitor the various forums so I can almost guarantee that the next iteration of this device will have a vent.

 

[LordDavon]

I read everything available on venting etc. I am not an engineer, but just from comparing what was recommended as ECF "official" criteria for venting with what we have here, the venting through the threads is not sufficient. Not even close. Not a precise analysis, no, but, I bet, accurate nonetheless.

Briar,

You know I love ya. Here are the ECF regulations for dual battery mods. They are here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-ecf-metal-tubemods-safety-specification.html No single battery mod has exploded, that we are aware of, but that doesn't mean it will not happen one day. All tube mods should use battery safety, but the question is... what is safe? Now, there are many dual battery mods that do not comply with these specs. As a matter of fact, almost all don't.

I don't consider the Telescope a dual battery mod, and anyone using stacked batteries in it, with holes in the cap or not, is asking for trouble. There is absolutely no regulation on this mod, as it is purely mechanical. Because of this, there is nothing to regulate the power out of the batteries. Since the top battery carries the load, it will have to be able to handle the full power draw out of it. Using two stacked 18350s, taking them off of the charger, and popping them in with a 1.5 ohm DC Carto... is over 35 Watts of power. No 18350 battery is designed for that.

ECF specifications asks for slots to be placed in the body of the mod. To see what meeting these specs looks like, take a look at the Buzz Pro II. Then, take a look at all of the dual battery mods being sold. Why bring this up? Well, we all know the ECF specifications aren't being followed, and they are only a guideline, but sales on devices with stack batteries continue.

As for the threads venting on the Telescope... they may not be big enough, or allow enough air to pass, to be considered compliant for gas expulsion, but they are in the body of the unit, and I prefer them to the holes in the cap. ECF asks for slots in the body, so the mod will avoid "Rocket Mode" when the batteries fail, and the Telescope may avoid that. Placing holes in the cap of the unit will enhance "Rocket Mode", and could make the mod more dangerous. The Telescope might be better than a mod with holes, due to its design, or worse. Since this hasn't been tested, we don't know.

Having a single 18350, 18490, 18500, or 18650 battery limits the power to 4.2V for this device (about 3.8V under load). This is a very acceptable power amount for a device like this. If there are people concerned, using a Fuse is a good idea, and was designed for mods like this. If they need more power than 4.2V, using a Kick is the only route!

As for now, I am in complete disagreement with asking for holes to be milled into the cap of the unit. I would prefer some in the base of the body, or some slits. I do not feel a sense of fear or paranoia should be present with this device using a single battery, and commend GotVapes for bringing this device to market. BUT we do need to consider safety for those people that will throw "caution to the wind", and stack a couple batteries anyway. Albeit dangerous, they will do it anyway.

Okay, that's all I've got to say. Wubs!


emphasis added by mod, hope you don't mind LD - Danno

 

[Ctor]

Interesting debate on the safety issue.

We're adults, right? We supposedly have to be 18 or over to purchase these products, right?

The answer is simple. Don't rush out and buy the latest/greatest the day it comes out. Read forums, reviews, etc. Rescearch and evaluate the product and any inherent risk of use of what you're buyning. Decide for yourself if it's safe enough for you. If it is, buy it, if it isn't, move on.

Caveat emptor. Take personal responsibility for your purchase decision. Make an informed decision for yourself.

Simple, no?

 

[EGO-maniac]

Davon and Ctor make excellent points. This is not intended to be a "stacked" device, nor should it be used as such. If someone chooses to stack batts in this device, they have decided to ignore the mass majority of us.

 

[EGO-maniac]

I just wanted to say how greatful I am to have such intelligent men such as these two to ask questions to. Thanks guys!

 

[rdsok]

Just to fill out a little more on what ECF mentioned as guidelines and that LordDavon missed... take everything he said and add...

That if enough space was placed on the sides of the battery so they don't fit in too tightly and then with the addition of holes in the bottom would also be sufficient to provide venting if a battery gassed out... the advantage this gives is that the vented gases would exit away from a user since the bottom of the unit is usually pointed away from them.

 

[dannoman]

Do remember that this is a SINGLE battery mod first of all. Issues of exploding batteries, the miniscule few that have been reported, have centered around double stacked configurations (there are many safety concerns you have to consider when double-stacking). SMOKtech is not your typical knock-off manufacturer. They apply detail to every part of their manufacturing process even down to how their products are packaged. Their engineers feel, in a conscientious fashion, that the Telescope is a very safe mod to use as they manufactured it. They chose not to drill vent holes in it as the threading itself provides more ventability than a couple of pin holes you see in alot of mods besides which, and even more importantly, the bottom button firing assembly is in itself a HUGE vent, making more venting holes redundant. Any type of battery breakdown would expand that assembly out and allow for much more venting than mods without this type of mechanical firing system.

Now with that in mind venting holes are not a complete safety feature in and of themsleves. They are better than turning your mod into a pipe bomb but they also, because of compression of escaping gases, can turn a mod into a blow torch. So do not feel, "if this has venting holes I am safe, I can sleep well", its a false sense of security. Instead, if you are prone to worry over these things, you should at best feel a 'reduced-danger by a very small magnitude' sense of security.

With that last point made, if this is a big issue for you with any mod, and this discussion is getting more generally safety-realted and not Telescope specific, you might do well to install a fuse. We do not have these but we are actively trying to procure these as well as safety charging & storage (lipo) bags.

Briar,

You know I love ya. Here are the ECF regulations for dual battery mods. They are here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-ecf-metal-tubemods-safety-specification.html No single battery mod has exploded, that we are aware of, but that doesn't mean it will not happen one day. All tube mods should use battery safety, but the question is... what is safe? Now, there are many dual battery mods that do not comply with these specs. As a matter of fact, almost all don't.

I don't consider the Telescope a dual battery mod, and anyone using stacked batteries in it, with holes in the cap or not, is asking for trouble. There is absolutely no regulation on this mod, as it is purely mechanical. Because of this, there is nothing to regulate the power out of the batteries. Since the top battery carries the load, it will have to be able to handle the full power draw out of it. Using two stacked 18350s, taking them off of the charger, and popping them in with a 1.5 ohm DC Carto... is over 35 Watts of power. No 18350 battery is designed for that.

ECF specifications asks for slots to be placed in the body of the mod. To see what meeting these specs looks like, take a look at the Buzz Pro II. Then, take a look at all of the dual battery mods being sold. Why bring this up? Well, we all know the ECF specifications aren't being followed, and they are only a guideline, but sales on devices with stack batteries continue.

As for the threads venting on the Telescope... they may not be big enough, or allow enough air to pass, to be considered compliant for gas expulsion, but they are in the body of the unit, and I prefer them to the holes in the cap. ECF asks for slots in the body, so the mod will avoid "Rocket Mode" when the batteries fail, and the Telescope may avoid that. Placing holes in the cap of the unit will enhance "Rocket Mode", and could make the mod more dangerous. The Telescope might be better than a mod with holes, due to its design, or worse. Since this hasn't been tested, we don't know.

Having a single 18350, 18490, 18500, or 18650 battery limits the power to 4.2V for this device (about 3.8V under load). This is a very acceptable power amount for a device like this. If there are people concerned, using a Fuse is a good idea, and was designed for mods like this. If they need more power than 4.2V, using a Kick is the only route!

As for now, I am in complete disagreement with asking for holes to be milled into the cap of the unit. I would prefer some in the base of the body, or some slits. I do not feel a sense of fear or paranoia should be present with this device using a single battery, and commend GotVapes for bringing this device to market. BUT we do need to consider safety for those people that will throw "caution to the wind", and stack a couple batteries anyway. Albeit dangerous, they will do it anyway.

Okay, that's all I've got to say. Wubs!

 

[dannoman]

By the way the plastic seat where the battery rests is in and of itself a safety feature providing some of the collapsible hot spring functionality. If this melts your battery drops down and is 'disconnected' from the mod.

 

[burns_erin]

I actually think a bottom vent on this would probably be a pretty bad idea, I mean we are activating it with our pinkies, the most delicate of phalanges...

 

[LordDavon]

P.S. Upon some thought, I do agree with most of your points - but with clarification of where I want the vents, I still think it's best to add them and a hot spring in all mods, including this one. Mileage varies, as usual.

And I wubs you too. Friendly disagreement is often a good thing.

I've been looking at the mod, and I am not sure where the best place to mill slits are. Since most of the bottom holes are to allow the gas to expel away from the user, having them at the bottom makes sense. In the Telescope, that is where your hand is, and your hand is wrapped around the base of the unit.

I think the only thing I can think of, is to have several places around the unit, to allow the gasses to expel in smaller amounts. This would allow the gasses to escape, in smaller amounts, all over the unit. It's current design kind of plays into that, but there may be ways to improve. This is a thought that just crossed my mind, so I haven't really given it a ton of time. So, this is my thought, but I would like to hear everyone's ideas on this.

Cute emoticon, by the way.

 

[rdsok]

I actually think a bottom vent on this would probably be a pretty bad idea, I mean we are activating it with our pinkies, the most delicate of phalanges...

IF there was a battery gas out, I did say if... vents on the side would burn the hand/palm and vents down on the cap, possibly the finger or heal of the palm depending on which one you use to active the trigger... But the point of any vent is to limit possible damage from the PV becoming a pipe bomb...

Again, I'm trying to be general so it the info applies to any type and isn't directed at just this mod... As I mentioned, I would get this if I didn't already have a similar style mod already... so my posts are an attempt at just safety implications etc more than directed at this mod alone

 

[Briar]

Well, I just played with how I hold it, with two size batts (18650 and 18490), and one way or another, there is no place to put the vents where your hand wouldn't get burned that I can see. That's probably true for any mod...

So might as well put them towards the bottom away from the face - in the case of the Telescope more smallish holes is probably better than larger slots, which would screw up the function.

What I've been thinking for awhile though is this: why not make the tube like a lattice, rather than a solid tube? Could even make it like a cut-out design, to look cool. And since the battery is not the prettiest thing in the world, put a black (or colored) purposefully soft and fragile sleeve on the inside.

I've been looking at the mod, and I am not sure where the best place to mill slits are. Since most of the bottom holes are to allow the gas to expel away from the user, having them at the bottom makes sense. In the Telescope, that is where your hand is, and your hand is wrapped around the base of the unit.

I think the only thing I can think of, is to have several places around the unit, to allow the gasses to expel in smaller amounts. This would allow the gasses to escape, in smaller amounts, all over the unit. It's current design kind of plays into that, but there may be ways to improve. This is a thought that just crossed my mind, so I haven't really given it a ton of time. So, this is my thought, but I would like to hear everyone's ideas on this.

Cute emoticon, by the way.

 

[The Yeti]

Dog help me, I'm actually considering buying one of these death machines!

But then again, I've been using my GGTS 'spring-less' for over a year and I still have my face intact. I like to live on the edge!!

 

[Adrena]

Most ECF surfers can see through cellophane and lacking posts of such brash comments.
No need to egg them on..... I leave my post as such...

 

[burns_erin]

IF there was a battery gas out, I did say if... vents on the side would burn the hand/palm and vents down on the cap, possibly the finger or heal of the palm depending on which one you use to active the trigger... But the point of any vent is to limit possible damage from the PV becoming a pipe bomb...

Again, I'm trying to be general so it the info applies to any type and isn't directed at just this mod... As I mentioned, I would get this if I didn't already have a similar style mod already... so my posts are an attempt at just safety implications etc more than directed at this mod alone

Well, I just played with how I hold it, with two size batts (18650 and 18490), and one way or another, there is no place to put the vents where your hand wouldn't get burned that I can see. That's probably true for any mod...

So might as well put them towards the bottom away from the face - in the case of the Telescope more smallish holes is probably better than larger slots, which would screw up the function.

What I've been thinking for awhile though is this: why not make the tube like a lattice, rather than a solid tube? Could even make it like a cut-out design, to look cool. And since the battery is not the prettiest thing in the world, put a black (or colored) purposefully soft and fragile sleeve on the inside.

I've been looking at the mod, and I am not sure where the best place to mill slits are. Since most of the bottom holes are to allow the gas to expel away from the user, having them at the bottom makes sense. In the Telescope, that is where your hand is, and your hand is wrapped around the base of the unit.

I think the only thing I can think of, is to have several places around the unit, to allow the gasses to expel in smaller amounts. This would allow the gasses to escape, in smaller amounts, all over the unit. It's current design kind of plays into that, but there may be ways to improve. This is a thought that just crossed my mind, so I haven't really given it a ton of time. So, this is my thought, but I would like to hear everyone's ideas on this.

Cute emoticon, by the way.

My thought on the not the very bottom issue is IF (Big caps if) someone was trying to add a vent or plans for the next version to have one, if you put the vent where the pinkie should go and IFFFF you are playing unsafely, and IFFFF the worst should happen, well from my experience in the boon docks I can tell you pinkies are relatively easy to blow off IYSWIM.

I am not in any way suggesting that this thing is unsafe as it is, I am suggesting that by trying to make it safer, people might inadvertently make it more dangerous. (Did I make better sense that time?)

 

[Sense Field]

A telescopic mod is more likely to have stacked batteries placed in it then most other mods. That is one reason why people buy them.

Single battery mods have not exploded but most mods do have hot springs. Like I said...I had a P+ hot spring collapse on me. I also had a Galileo Telescopic mod that I had a collapsed hot spring on. Grimm Green just had a shorted vivi nova take out two batteries.

All single battery instances, user saved by safety measures.

There are no excuses, there are no "it's not likely" statements. Nothing will convince me that sealing up the battery like this, in an all mechanical mod, with no electronic safety measure, could ever be safe. It's a gamble, do you have faith that your battery and charger are working just fine? By all means...go for it.

 

[Sense Field]

the bottom button firing assembly is in itself a HUGE vent,

Hey Dan,

The bottom button has TONS of glue on the inside. There is no vending happening there. The firing pin is a tiny hole with next to no play. There is no huge vent hole.