Battery Longevity Trick?

[JustaGuy]

I came across this link accidentally, am experimenting myself. This may be useful info for all vapers. We all hear about the batt 250-300 recharge life cycle and batts are supposed to die in a few months. I did not know this was true, even thought the opposite. If this can make our batts last longer, why not? See particularly post #9.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/reos-mods/212398-does-early-recharge-count-full-cycle-battery.html

Thanks for the info, mod folks, thought I'd reference for everyone.

Disclaimer: I don't know much about batts personally.
Edit: also removed specific reference to LiIon batts.

 

[Mindfield]

Sweet, thanks for the link! It seems like most people I've talked to suggested that LiIon's last longer when they're lower on charge, but Mr. AW himself states that the sooner you charge, the longer the battery will last.

Niiiiice. Just swapped out the battery in my Provari for my spare on hearing that news; normally I'd have waited 'til later tonight to swap.

 

[BuzzKill]

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

here is a some real data on this subject

 

[JustaGuy]

Sweet, thanks for the link! It seems like most people I've talked to suggested that LiIon's last longer when they're lower on charge, but Mr. AW himself states that the sooner you charge, the longer the battery will last.

Niiiiice. Just swapped out the battery in my Provari for my spare on hearing that news; normally I'd have waited 'til later tonight to swap.

Anytime, share and share alike. Yeah, I was being a nice little boy, emptying the Rivas before 3 hour charge. Like I said, I'm experimenting myself, so can't confirm or deny that it works. I figure the serious mod folks ought to know about batts and Mr. AW makes them, so...personally, I'd rather not buy new batts every 3-6 months 'cause I maxed out the charge cycles.

 

[JustaGuy]

How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

here is a some real data on this subject

Thanks for the link. From your link -

"Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, so also does the depth of discharge (DoD) determine the cycle count. The smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid frequent full discharges and charge more often between uses. If full discharges cannot be avoided, try utilizing a larger battery. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery."

This seems consistent with the thread I referenced.

 

[zoiDman]

I came across this link accidentally, am experimenting myself. Since just about all batts are LiIon now, this may be useful info for all vapers. We all hear about the batt 250-300 recharge life cycle and batts are supposed to die in a few months. I did not know this was true, even thought the opposite. If this can make our batts last longer, why not? See particularly post #9.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/reos-mods/212398-does-early-recharge-count-full-cycle-battery.html

Thanks for the info, mod folks, thought I'd reference for everyone.

One thing to not about the thread link you posted:

The OP in that thread asks about AW IMR 18650 batteries. As I understand it, The AW IMR batteries are Ni-MH and are not Li-Ion.

 

[JustaGuy]

One thing to not about the thread link you posted:

The OP in that thread asks about AW IMR 18650 batteries. As I understand it, The AW IMR batteries are Ni-MH and are not Li-Ion.

Thanks. You'd know more than I do since I stopped at Rivas. However, AW (Mr. Wong) does advertise LiIon sales (including his thread name) and the link BuzzKill provided does refer to LiIons.

Edit: updated OP, don't want to misrepresent anything.

 

[zoiDman]

Thanks. You'd know more than I do since I stopped at Rivas. However, AW (Mr. Wong) does advertise LiIon sales (including his thread name) and the link BuzzKill provided does refer to LiIons.

Full disclosure: I don't know much about batts, thus am experimenting with "topping off". Many batt experts abound.

I'm not really a battery expert. But I recently bought a Provari and everyone said to use AW IMR High Drain batteries with it.

When I asked why to use them I was told that they have a Low Internal Resistance and they are Ni-MH which is supposed to work better with the Provari.

 

[JustaGuy]

I'm not really a battery expert. But I recently bought a Provari and everyone said to use AW IMR High Drain batteries with it.

When I asked why to use them I was told that they have a Low Internal Resistance and they are Ni-MH which is supposed to work better with the Provari.

It can get so confusing between facts and opinions... That's why I have to 'experiment'. I updated the OP to leave out the LiIon reference just in case. Also moved my disclaimer there.

 

[zoiDman]

It can get so confusing between facts and opinions... That's why I have to 'experiment'. I updated the OP to leave out the LiIon reference just in case. Also moved my disclaimer there.

I hear you...

I'll just throw this out. I think the Only rechargable battery type that works best with 90% discharge is the Ni-Cad.

But since Ni-Cad batteries arn't used much and I have never seen one in an e-Cig, I think it is safe to say that more charging is better than less charging for and e-Cig

 

[Mindfield]

I hear you...

I'll just throw this out. I think the Only rechargable battery type that works best with 90% discharge is the Ni-Cad.

But since Ni-Cad batteries arn't used much and I have never seen one in an e-Cig, I think it is safe to say that more charging is better than less charging for and e-Cig

NiCd suffered from the memory effect though, so they had a pretty limited life span and they lasted longest if you completely discharged them before recharging, otherwise they developed the memory effect. LiIon, NiMH and LiFePO4 don't have the memory effect and, it seems, last longest when you charge them more often.

 

[SnowDragon]

There are some good points and links in this post. As for charging overnight (guilty as charged..I know, terrible pun)

It's probably prudent to unplug before and after charging then remove or attach your battery. The chart shown at the BU link while informative is not e-cig specific and fails to note that the logic on your e-cig chip determines a cut-off. Generally that is within 10-15% of a full charge. So an unregulated 3.7v battery, fully charged to 4.2 generally will cut out at 3.7-3.6v not at 0v.

That being said, you can indeed get more charges and better vaping by charging your battery before it indicates needing a charge. However, the actual lifespan is somewhat negligible since you are not allowing the battery to discharge to recharge status. So you have to acccount for the loss of that shortened all-be-it battery faded performance time.

I do agree, after a few hours and before the battery conks out, toss it on a Charger. If for any other reason, the last 30 minutes or so on an unregulated battery does provide for peak vaping due to battery fade.

One thing to remember.....cleaning your Charger is more important than cleaning your battery. In most cases when a charger shorts-out or fries like the one pictured in the provided link. It's because the connectors have become covered in juice. I posted a video of how-to clean Chargers in the Tutorial...it only takes a few seconds.

 

[JustaGuy]

Hi SnowDragon, some parts of your post lead me to believe you were responding to http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/214379-does-hurt-leave-charger-should-you-unplug-before-removal-thanks.html, where I referenced this thread. Did you mean to post there for paulsonlaw's benefit?

All helpful info just the same, thank you.

 

[SnowDragon]

My reply is in response to this post and the accompanying links. But I see my error and have change it to the "provided link".

 

[JustaGuy]

My reply is in response to this post and the accompanying links. But I see my error and have change it to the "provided link".

Hey, I'm not complaining, just glad you posted in addition to Mindfield, BuzzKill and zoiDman. Heard this is old stuff, thought this would be useful to non-mod/newer vapers, but kind of quiet around here.

Edit: guilty as charged as well.

 

[twolazy]

I remember having a discussion on this in college! Took some engineering classes when I went to school for my MSCE. Basically the consensus was, battery life can be extended by a few different variables. One is charging sooner, like posted above, provided its not NiCad. ( NiCad's are a different beast and full discharge/recharge is benificial to their life!)

Another is using a trickle charger. Seems any battery chemistry is affected by heat during charging. A third way is charging the battery in pulses, allowing the electrolytes to rest in between, and spread out the heat evenly. And the last way, being 4th, would be having circuitry that cuts off any battery use if the batteries fall below 20-30%. NiMH and Lion are most effected when drained very low, and the chance it dies charging increase 3-4 fold once the battery is below 20%.

Point of all this is, if you can find a way to slow charge the batteries they will last over twice as long, provided you charge them around 40% or higher capacity. Hrm, now I have to see if I still have my notes and textbooks for the class... LOL

Keep in mind this was for embedded devices, but nonetheless the battery chemistry is the same. It isnt so much the charge cycles that kill a battery, its heat. Also, during periods of hot weather, a battery will actually decrease its useful charge without any use. The opp is true in cold weather. So if you live in a cold climate, that alone will make your batteries last longer!

Last but not least is storage. If you are going to store your batteries for a few weeks or longer, do this. Get them as close to half charge as you can, and pop them in the fridge. They can be there up to 1-2 years without much decrease in life expectancy.

 

[fray]

One thing to not about the thread link you posted:

The OP in that thread asks about AW IMR 18650 batteries. As I understand it, The AW IMR batteries are Ni-MH and are not Li-Ion.

Imr batteries are (li-mn) lithium manganese not (ni-mh) nickel metal hydride


Just to solve any confusion there.

 

[JustaGuy]

Keep in mind this was for embedded devices, but nonetheless the battery chemistry is the same. It isnt so much the charge cycles that kill a battery, its heat. Also, during periods of hot weather, a battery will actually decrease its useful charge without any use. The opp is true in cold weather. So if you live in a cold climate, that alone will make your batteries last longer!

Last but not least is storage. If you are going to store your batteries for a few weeks or longer, do this. Get them as close to half charge as you can, and pop them in the fridge. They can be there up to 1-2 years without much decrease in life expectancy.

I was going to mention I'll vape in the frig, batt before my comfort. Thanks for your input. Yes, heat seems a common factor in everything I've read about batts.

 

[Morandir835]

+1 to what SnowDragon sir said.

JustaGuy sir, can only tell you in all my private tests it makes a difference of a hundred recharges or so in avoiding deep cycling them.

 

[JustaGuy]

fray, I'm still confused with all those elements in different batt types, li-mn, ni-cad, ni-mh & li-ion. All I wanted for Xmax was a batt that doesn't blow up and lasts > 300 charges.

Morandir835, that's winning smile, sir! What's in your hand? Thanks for your private experiment results. 100 extra charges is substantial. I've already read enough to shallow charge myself, or charge myself to be shallow.