I never said it was "untrue".
I'm not willing to let you make things up and me be forced into defending against the stuff you claim that I'm saying. Have fun arguing against whatever BS you make up next.
Baylor Health Care will not hire nicotine users.
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I never said it was "untrue".
I'm not willing to let you make things up and me be forced into defending against the stuff you claim that I'm saying. Have fun arguing against whatever BS you make up next.
Can I ask what's making you so cranky?
Plenty of people are able to come on this forum and POLITELY disagree with what's been said. No one is "making" anything up, no one is forcing you to do anything.
What's with the attitude?
Frankly, Baldr, my head is spinning. Obviously I misunderstood your point. When someone misunderstands your point, the most effective response is to clarify what you really meant, not to accuse them of making stuff up about you.
At the hospitals in my city, I used to see nurses in uniform outside at the smoker's kiosk across the street. They allowed people with IV's to go outside rolling an IV cart and smoke.
Nicotine is the culprit, yet doctors prescribe it for their patients who want to quit, albeit in a different form. Propylene Glycol mist is routinely an additive to the air handling units that convey heat and cooling through the hospitals. PG in a mist form attaches to airborne bacteria and takes them to the floor where they will stay until they are swept or mopped up during cleaning. The flavors are food additives.
So, who started the issue with ecigs and nicotine? It's all about whether nicotine is exhaled in the vaper. If the FDA ever gets around to testing and releasing lab work on ecigs, I imagine the miniscule amount of nic in the vapor will be simply stated as "the exhaled vapor contains nicotine". Never mind that it is at nanoliter or picoliter levels. It will be there for convenience.
We need to be able to test and publish before the FDA gets around to issuing their findings. It's easier to argue from a position of strength than it is to argue from a defensive position. We've all heard the antifreeze thing. Forget that it was trace and only from one sample. It was there and almost everyone I know thinks I'm vaping antifreeze (except for the people on ecig forums).
Nicotine is the culprit, yet doctors prescribe it for their patients who want to quit, albeit in a different form. Propylene Glycol mist is routinely an additive to the air handling units that convey heat and cooling through the hospitals. PG in a mist form attaches to airborne bacteria and takes them to the floor where they will stay until they are swept or mopped up during cleaning. The flavors are food additives.
So, who started the issue with ecigs and nicotine? It's all about whether nicotine is exhaled in the vaper. If the FDA ever gets around to testing and releasing lab work on ecigs, I imagine the miniscule amount of nic in the vapor will be simply stated as "the exhaled vapor contains nicotine". Never mind that it is at nanoliter or picoliter levels. It will be there for convenience.
We need to be able to test and publish before the FDA gets around to issuing their findings. It's easier to argue from a position of strength than it is to argue from a defensive position. We've all heard the antifreeze thing. Forget that it was trace and only from one sample. It was there and almost everyone I know thinks I'm vaping antifreeze (except for the people on ecig forums).
It's still a made up name. There isn't any way for someone to look up what it means. Nobody self-identifies with it. It's just been created as a way to be derogatory towards "The Other Side"
That's what I said.
Then she goes off on a rant about how they hate us, and how I'm claiming it's untrue. I know they hate us, I've said so myself. I never claimed that was untrue.
Claiming that I said it was untrue is a lie. It's also a refusal to discuss what I actually said, which is that the name ANTZ is confusing, that people can't look up the meaning. That name is a made up name designed to be derogatory, and it's not used by the people that actually hate us.
I wouldn't like it if "The Other Side" started calling us "nicsuckers" or something, either. I don't think name calling is going to help either side.
You didn't misunderstand my point. You pretended that I said something completely different, and then set up a straw man argument. I'm not willing to argue the side you seem to believe I'm supposed to argue.
That's what I said.
Then she goes off on a rant about how they hate us, and how I'm claiming it's untrue. I know they hate us, I've said so myself. I never claimed that was untrue.
Claiming that I said it was untrue is a lie. It's also a refusal to discuss what I actually said, which is that the name ANTZ is confusing, that people can't look up the meaning. That name is a made up name designed to be derogatory, and it's not used by the people that actually hate us.
I wouldn't like it if "The Other Side" started calling us "nicsuckers" or something, either. I don't think name calling is going to help either side.
You didn't misunderstand my point. You pretended that I said something completely different, and then set up a straw man argument. I'm not willing to argue the side you seem to believe I'm supposed to argue.
Baldr, it's not a made up name, it's an acronym and a fairly new one at that. If you ever read Dr Siegel's blog, many of the posters use RATZ which you won't easily find the meaning of but I asked and forgot the exact meaning but something like Researcher Anti Tobacco Zealots. Those fellows, many of which are cloistered in Cali. making a lot of money doing research where they start with the conclusion and work backward.
Acronyms only become understood over time and when used by many. Had you just asked, somebody would have let you know. It's as simple as that and it covers a lot of Acronyms like ALA, ACS, CTFK, et. al. and easier to write than alphabet soup or the evil empire plus it covers the whole range of ANTZ out there.
Acronyms only become understood over time and when used by many. Had you just asked, somebody would have let you know. It's as simple as that and it covers a lot of Acronyms like ALA, ACS, CTFK, et. al. and easier to write than alphabet soup or the evil empire plus it covers the whole range of ANTZ out there.
I know Dee, you just wanted to show your joyous face. I always wondered what was going on that didn't make the picture.
Lol, my face wasn't feeling very joyous a couple of minutes ago and I let it get the best of me for a second. I'm all better now...almost.
Anyway! In that picture I am seated at my mothers glass topped kitchen table--what do you think is going on? Hahaha!
So, you hate a term because you can't figure out what it means? Or because it's "made up?"
I'll give you a few more "made up" words/terms that couldn't be found in the dictionary: vaping, vaper, atty, e-juice, mod, analog cigarette, etc.
Just about every term associated with e-cigarettes is made up!
And way to completely disrespect one of the hardest working, most dedicated and kindest e-cigarette advocates we have on our side. Vocalek is Elaine Keller, vice president of CASAA. She has put in 2 long, hard years as a volunteer director, often spending her own money and traveling to speak on behalf of vapers to help protect your right to have that e-cigarette in your mouth and keeping the ANTZ (and yes I made up the freaking acronym after being called junkie, stupid, pathetic and shill by "the other side") off of your back. At least calling them what they are - Anti Nicotine and Tobacco Zealots (ANTZ) - is TRUE. It's not "just meant to be derogatory" or name-calling and you claiming that IS untrue. That is WHAT THEY ARE - A.N.T.Z.
Please do some research before you start spouting off at or about respected, long-standing members of this community. I apologize for being harsh, but your disrespect towards Elaine has made me really angry.
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If the term serves to get people asking qusetions, then that is a very good thing.
It's a very new term, and hopefully it will catch on.
New terminology always has to start somewhere.
It isn't common usage, you can't look it up on google and find an answer, you can't hover over it like many of the terms used here on ECF and get some help. You can pretend that I'm the only one that had to ask what it meant if you want.
It's possible that I'm the only one that thinks that making up derogatory names for them is a bad plan. More likely, anyone that brings it up is simply attacked and chased off.
I did suggest that it would help if hovering over it would tell you what it meant, like happens with PV and atty and many other terms here. You guys prefer to kill the messenger.
That doesn't mean I'm going to debate her when she makes things up, claims I said them, and then I'm supposed to defend the stuff she made up.
I'm perfectly willing to discuss things I actually said. All of this "Which part isn't true" stuff ignores the fact that I never said any of it wasn't true.
First, they don't call themselves that.
Second, the term is intended to be derogatory. "Lets call them ANTZ. Nonhuman, contemptible insects."
You (and I) don't like it when they call us names and treat us that way. I don't think it helps if we do it to them. Especially when we are outnumbered.
Considering the way I've been treated here, I don't think you have any right to be talking about respect.
And I regret even pointing this story out. I had no idea it would lead to you guys attacking me.
Baldr, I had to go back to your original post and Elaine's response to insure I hadn't misread anything. I think you should do the same. I see nothing in what she posted that was attacking you, just explaining the acronym.
Baldr,
I was looking at your post history last night so I know you aren't a troll.
I saw that you haven't spent much time is this part of the forum until recently. You really need to spend A LOT of time reading through the threads here. Read the articles that are linked. If you do that I'm sure you'll come to understand why people have such strong feelings here and why thay came up with the term ANTZ.
If you are like most people here you are going to start getting ANGRY at the lies and misinformation the FDA, the lazy media and all the anti smoking groups have been spreading about ecigs. They want nicotine to be = with smoking though they know it's not.
Are you much of a history buff? How much do you know about the history of Prohibition in this country?
Prohibition in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Have you ever heard of this woman :
Carrie Nation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Read enough and you will see that some folks in the antismoking/nicotine industry are nearly as bad as Miss Nation but devious and dishonest as well.
Having said all that I have to confess, I HATE DRINKING!!!!!
You owe the fact that you can EVEN VAPE to the folks here in this part of the forum, the people who came up with the term ANTZ. Without them and their hard work the FDA would have blocked ecigs from getting into the country. You can thank Vocalek, Kristin, Placebo Effect, DC2 and many others who seem to post ONLY in this section of the forum, for fact that we can still vape in this country.
I don't understand why you are in such a tizzy over the fact that nothing happens when you hover your mouse over the term "ANTZ" the way it does the term "PV". It's a very new term and the forum wizards haven't gotten around to adding it to the official acronym list. Instead of whining about it, why don't you go here: Site Feedback and Help
and suggest someone do something about it.
I have got to be one of the most crap writers in the world but I am far from stupid.
I like this part of the forum because this is where the most intelligent and best educated people are to be found. I suggest you lurk awhile instead of getting cranky with people. I suggest you spend a lot of time reading here as well:
Legislation News
Do that for at least a week and I'll bet you'll start using the term ANTZ yourself.
Good luck. Sorry about the convoluted run on sentences and lousy punctuation.
I was looking at your post history last night so I know you aren't a troll.
I saw that you haven't spent much time is this part of the forum until recently. You really need to spend A LOT of time reading through the threads here. Read the articles that are linked. If you do that I'm sure you'll come to understand why people have such strong feelings here and why thay came up with the term ANTZ.
If you are like most people here you are going to start getting ANGRY at the lies and misinformation the FDA, the lazy media and all the anti smoking groups have been spreading about ecigs. They want nicotine to be = with smoking though they know it's not.
Are you much of a history buff? How much do you know about the history of Prohibition in this country?
Prohibition in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Have you ever heard of this woman :
Carrie Nation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Read enough and you will see that some folks in the antismoking/nicotine industry are nearly as bad as Miss Nation but devious and dishonest as well.
Having said all that I have to confess, I HATE DRINKING!!!!!
You owe the fact that you can EVEN VAPE to the folks here in this part of the forum, the people who came up with the term ANTZ. Without them and their hard work the FDA would have blocked ecigs from getting into the country. You can thank Vocalek, Kristin, Placebo Effect, DC2 and many others who seem to post ONLY in this section of the forum, for fact that we can still vape in this country.
I don't understand why you are in such a tizzy over the fact that nothing happens when you hover your mouse over the term "ANTZ" the way it does the term "PV". It's a very new term and the forum wizards haven't gotten around to adding it to the official acronym list. Instead of whining about it, why don't you go here: Site Feedback and Help
and suggest someone do something about it.
I have got to be one of the most crap writers in the world but I am far from stupid.
I like this part of the forum because this is where the most intelligent and best educated people are to be found. I suggest you lurk awhile instead of getting cranky with people. I suggest you spend a lot of time reading here as well:
Legislation News
Do that for at least a week and I'll bet you'll start using the term ANTZ yourself.
Good luck. Sorry about the convoluted run on sentences and lousy punctuation.
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Baldr: I'm sorry if you mistook my indigation about the behavior of "the other side" as a personal attack on yourself.
The terminology you used, "made up" and "derogatory," contributed to the confusion, because these terms carry connotations of falsehood. I truly thought you believed that the acronym ANTZ was partly or wholly untrue, hence my analysis of each word in the acronym.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your statement "You didn't misunderstand my point" could be grossly misinterpreted. It sounds as if you are calling me a liar. I'm sure you wouldn't do that, because that would be quite rude.
We all make mistakes. We all have occasions where we misunderstand others. It does not necessarily follow that the others are lying to us or that we are lying to them.
The terminology you used, "made up" and "derogatory," contributed to the confusion, because these terms carry connotations of falsehood. I truly thought you believed that the acronym ANTZ was partly or wholly untrue, hence my analysis of each word in the acronym.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your statement "You didn't misunderstand my point" could be grossly misinterpreted. It sounds as if you are calling me a liar. I'm sure you wouldn't do that, because that would be quite rude.
We all make mistakes. We all have occasions where we misunderstand others. It does not necessarily follow that the others are lying to us or that we are lying to them.
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