Baylor Health Care will not hire nicotine users.

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Baldr

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Baylor Health Systems won't hire nicotine users - Dallas Business Journal

Baylor Health Care Systems (usually called Baylor Hospital) is one of the larger hospital systems (27 locations) in the Dallas area.

Recent news articles say that they've decided to stop hiring anyone who uses nicotine. They say it's because smoking is bad for you, but they are going after all forms of nicotine, probably because testing for nicotine is fairly easy.
 

Stubby

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This is where ignorance meats stupidity

“We want to be a good role model to our patients and the communities we serve,” Joel Allison, president and chief executive, told the paper. “For too long, we’ve been in the sickness business. It’s time to be in the wellness business.”

It's shows real bigotry that the policy includes any nicotine, including gum or the patch. Of course that would include e-cigs or any other reduced harm tobacco. It would be a good thing if the article was blasted with a few hundred post correcting their misinformation about nicotine and tobacco in general.
 

t9c

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They say it's because smoking is bad for you, but they are going after all forms of nicotine, probably because testing for nicotine is fairly easy.

Here are the rules:
Applicants who admit to nicotine use will not have their applications processed
Anyone who is hired will be tested for nicotine
If you test positive, your job offer will be withdrawn
After a positive result, you can reapply for the job after 90 days


Read more on myFOXdfw.com: Baylor Health Jobs: No Smokers Need Apply


So, it wouldn't do one any good to tell the applications office that you've already quit smoking when all you do is consume nicotine via your e-cig, disolvables or gum. :facepalm:
 

Vocalek

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Left this comment, published to my Facebook account:

Baylor Health Systems may have good reasons to not hire smokers, but there is no excuse for indulging in discrimination against non-smokers or former smokers who rely on reduced-risk sources of nicotine to maintain normal cognitive function and mood. There is a body of published medical evidence showing that Swedish smokers who switch to snus have no higher risk of cancer, lung disease, or cardiovascular disease than former smokers who gave up all tobacco/nicotine. This body of evidence is being used by pharmaceutical companies to convince the FDA that long-term use of nicotine-replacement medications is just as safe as using this spit-free, smoke-free tobacco product. The best test to determine whether someone smokes is exhaled carbon monoxide. Nicotine testing is too imprecise for this purpose and slams the door on fully-qualified potential employees.
 

Vocalek

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I'm afraid that the only way to wake up these turkeys is for one or more non-smoking nicotine users who would like to work there to charge Baylor with employment discrimination.

Filing a Charge

There needs to be a basis for the charge of discrimination. In the case of someone who becomes dysfunctional without nicotine, that's discrimination on the basis of a disability. Hell...even the nicotine addiction could be considered a disability. It's different from all other addictions because the addiction dependence does not impair normal functioning -- it supports normal functioning.

We need a lawyer willing to take on "the system" and make a name for him or herself.

I would be glad to gather and supply the attorney with the scientific evidence to back up the case.
 
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t9c

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Yeah! Where are all the lawyers when you need one? ;) Of course I agree in principle with a lawsuit, but in the harsh world of job hunting, a job hunter has little time or resources to fight the nannies. BHCS knows this and so can and will make up anything they want to quickly dismiss a suit.

Now, if and when they start firing employees for the presence of nicotine, there's a much better chance for a policy change through the discrimination route.

This type of pre-employment screening is the insurance industry run amok - based on greed, not science.
 

MattZuke

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I'm afraid that the only way to wake up these turkeys is for one or more non-smoking nicotine users who would like to work there to charge Baylor with employment discrimination.
...
I would be glad to gather and supply the attorney with the scientific evidence to back up the case.

Here is where we get glitchy. Nicotine addiction is not recognized as a medical condition because it's claimed users can stop smoking at any time. Unless you're seeking treatment, then it is considered to be a medical condition with prescribed treatments.

Here is where I can't pretend to understand the law, because law doesn't reflect objective reality.

This is likely the domain of the ACLU, because they're not just discriminating against a lifestyle, but those with a medical condition, that the prescribed treatment is nicotine. This obviously would only apply to NRPs, but still.
 

pianoguy

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I'm afraid that the only way to wake up these turkeys is for one or more non-smoking nicotine users who would like to work there to charge Baylor with employment discrimination.

Filing a Charge

There needs to be a basis for the charge of discrimination. In the case of someone who becomes dysfunctional without nicotine, that's discrimination on the basis of a disability. Hell...even the nicotine addiction could be considered a disability. It's different from all other addictions because the addiction dependence does not impair normal functioning -- it supports normal functioning.

We need a lawyer willing to take on "the system" and make a name for him or herself.

I would be glad to gather and supply the attorney with the scientific evidence to back up the case.

Thankfully, Minnesota law prohibits such discrimination. But it is still cold here in the winter ;-)
 
I'm afraid that the only way to wake up these turkeys is for one or more non-smoking nicotine users who would like to work there to charge Baylor with employment discrimination.

Filing a Charge

There needs to be a basis for the charge of discrimination. In the case of someone who becomes dysfunctional without nicotine, that's discrimination on the basis of a disability. Hell...even the nicotine addiction could be considered a disability. It's different from all other addictions because the addiction dependence does not impair normal functioning -- it supports normal functioning.

We need a lawyer willing to take on "the system" and make a name for him or herself.

I would be glad to gather and supply the attorney with the scientific evidence to back up the case.

I am convinced that this case should be argued as a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act as Amended in 2008 that prohibits employers from discriminating on the basis of a perceived disability or a medicinal screening for a medication prescribed to treat a disability.

From: The ADAAA 2008 « Human Resource Management Solutions by People Wise
Congress Tells the Courts How to Interpret the ADA
For example, in the Murphy case, Murphy had severe high blood pressure, but with medication, could function normally and engage in a full range of activities. Before the ADAAA, the law did not consider him to be disabled under the ADA because the use of medication controlled the effects of his high blood pressure. Murphy was prevented from pursuing an ADA claim after UPS found him unfit for his driver position because of his high blood pressure. The ADAAA now mandates that in determining whether an individual is disabled under the ADA, the person must be evaluated as if untreated, without considering the ameliorative effects of high blood pressure medication.

As a result of this change, the ADA will protect people whose cancer is in remission, whose diabetes is controlled by medication, whose seizures are prevented by medication, and who can function at a high level with learning disabilities. Employers will need to concentrate less on the threshold issue of disability, and focus more on their duty to provide reasonable accommodations. The ADAAA makes an exception for those who wear ordinary eyeglasses or contact lenses to correct vision to full acuity. These devices are not to be ignored in considering whether a person is disabled. Rather, they are to be taken into account, in all but rare cases. The purpose is to exclude from the definition of disability persons who simply need ordinary glasses to read, drive, etc.

The Scope of “Regarded as” Claims Has Been Both Clarified and Broadened The ADAAA further expands the ADA’s definition of disability, specifically the “regarded as” prong of that definition, by now including persons that have been discriminated against because of an actual impairment or a perceived impairment “whether or not the impairment limits or is perceived to limit a major life activity.” This is in stark contrast to the previous requirement expressed in the U.S. Supreme Court’s opinion in Sutton that the perceived impairment must, like any actual impairment, substantially limit a major life activity. If a person is treated adversely (in regard to job application procedures, hiring, advancement, discharge, compensation, job training, and other terms, conditions, and privileges of employment) because of an actual perceived impairment, that is a violation of the law, irrespective of whether the impairment actually limits or is perceived to limit a major life activity. However, the ADAAA excludes from the “regarded as” definition of disability those impairments that are transitory and minor. Transitory is defined as impairment with an actual or expected duration of 6 months or less.”

The ADAAA, however, limits the application of the ADA by clarifying that an employer’s duty to accommodate does not extend to those individuals who make discrimination claims under the “regarded as” prong of the definition of disability. Before the ADAAA, there was a split among the federal courts as to whether the ADA’s reasonable accommodation requirement applied to the “regarded as” category of disabled individuals. The ADAAA makes clear that employers have no duty to accommodate these individuals.
 

kristin

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Here is where we get glitchy. Nicotine addiction is not recognized as a medical condition because it's claimed users can stop smoking at any time. Unless you're seeking treatment, then it is considered to be a medical condition with prescribed treatments.

Here is where I can't pretend to understand the law, because law doesn't reflect objective reality.

This is likely the domain of the ACLU, because they're not just discriminating against a lifestyle, but those with a medical condition, that the prescribed treatment is nicotine. This obviously would only apply to NRPs, but still.

So true. If you make e-cigarettes and claim they help people quit smoking, according to the FDA you are making a "medical/health claim" to "diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or condition."

Yet, smoking and nicotine addiction is not recognized as a "disease or condition" by the ADA.
 

Nunnster

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I understand the crazy amount of something else that one would need to eat to show up on a test, however, how can ones complete basis be based upon one chemical (nicotine) that is known to be found in other every day substances? I cant see the logical reasoning. That is like saying "we wont higher you if you drink energy drinks" and test for caffeine. You may have eaten a chocolate bar and pop hot on a caffeine test, and never had an energy drink in your life. To me it seems like major discrimination based on someones lifestyle. You can argue that they do it because they do not want to pay for the health care of someone who smokes, but what if you were to put a religious context to something people do that is harmful, such as people who lash themselves with whips, starve themselves, etc. Or what if one were to put a sexual preference spin on hiring people based on study's such as people who choose to be homosexuals are at higher risk of STD's and AIDS. If anywhere stopped hiring people because of those things people would be in outrage lawsuits would be everywhere, so why is it that they can do this? I understand that I am not a lawyer, and I dont understand all the little nuances in the law, But IMO it just seems like flat out discrimination.

And I do understand that there is a difference between something that is someone's legal lifestyle choice (nicotine) and something that is not i.e. street drugs.
 
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cookiebun

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It's politically correct to hate and discriminate against smokers. Unfortunately for us the ANTZ have been very successful at making nicotine use synonymous with smoking. Insurance companies are looking for any excuse to charge us more money or deny our claims entirely.
There have been many threads here on this topic.
 
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Baldr

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I hate that term ANTZ. I found a thread with someone asking what it meant, and there still wasn't a real answer. And unlike many terms in use here, it doesn't tell you anything if you hover the mouse over it. (For instance, the term PV will tell you that's a Personal Vaporizer if you put your mouse over it.)

You can't look it up in a dictionary. If you google "Smoking ANTZ" you get no useful results. It's a made up term that doesn't have a definition (at least, not one anyone can find) which makes it useless.

As to why Baylor is doing this, like many, they hate smokers, and they hate ex-smokers. The fact that you've used a nicotine replacement to get off the cigs isn't good enough for them, you're still an ex smoker, so they still hate you.

They say they want to be in the wellness business, but if that were true, they would be encouraging smokers to vape instead of smoking.
 

Vocalek

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It's still a made up name. There isn't any way for someone to look up what it means. Nobody self-identifies with it. It's just been created as a way to be derogatory towards "The Other Side".

What part of the name do you find to be untrue?

They would be the first to admit that they are against the use of tobacco. They would also admit to being opposed to using nicotine except for a short period to wean down and off nicotine altogether.

The only part of the name that someone might find objectionable is "Zealot."

But is it untrue?

One definition of zealot is"

1.
a. One who is zealous, especially excessively so.
b. A fanatically committed person.

A definition of "zealous" is "marked by fervent partisanship for a person, a cause, or an ideal : filled with or characterized by zeal."

The term does seem to fit the situation, and IMHO, the term Zealot is nowhere near as derogatory as what they call us: Addicts and Junkies.

They pretend that using nicotine is exactly like being a drunk or using illegal drugs. They ignore the fact that excessive alcohol use and illegal drugs impair the user, and that users can be arrested for operating a motor vehicle while under the influence. They ignore the fact that having nicotine in ones' bloodstream doesn't induce shoddy work, irrational behavior, or crimes against persons.

They refuse to talk about the fact that nicotine actually improves performance on tasks that require sustained attention, and the fact that the absence of nicotine triggers negative feelings and behavior, not its presence.

They make up "evidence" to bolster their arguments. For example, Harvard Professor Gregory Connolly claims that Sweden has higher smoking rates than the U.S. and does his best to convey the (false) idea that children are being poisoned on a regular basis by dissolvable tobacco products.

Despite study after study showing that smokers who switch to Swedish snus reduce their risks of cancer and cardiovascular disease, we continue to see articles published in medical journals stating that smokeless tobacco causes cancer and cardiovascular disease.

If any of the ANTZ take umbrage at being called a zealot, they might want to refrain from acting that way.
 
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