"Blowing clouds" and sub ohm vaping... Why?

[el Jexican]

When I'm out in about I take my MVP with PT2 or iClear 30 and they do just fine. But when I'm at home, the MVP goes in the shelf and I pull out the mech with either the .6ohm RSST or the AGA-TD with dual micro coils in auto drip mode at 1.2ohms. The flavor is much better than with the PT2 and the TH is actually less for me.

 

[Baditude]

If someone desires to do sub-ohm, understands what risks involved, understands the Ohm's Law principles, uses the proper equipment (batteries that have enough amp reserve), and checks their coils routinely with a meter I believe that's their business. Just do it right and safely.

The problem I have is with the growing trend of some local vape shops all across the country who are selling brand new vapors a sub-ohm RBA/RDA build as their very first e-cigarette. They provide no education or warnings on what to watch out for. They don't seem to care about what batteries the customer is using. The customers often don't have a multimeter to check the coils at home. They just send them home and tell them to blow some clouds.

Then these noobs come on ECF asking why their new mod's batteries, fire switch, or mod are getting too hot to touch. Or ask why their mod stopped working after the spring in their mod melted. These guys haven't done their research in how to use a mechanical mod safely let alone know how to do sub-ohms safely.

One new vapor who had done his homework went to one of these shops, purchased a new RBA and asked the salesman to make its first coil for him. He asked the salesman to make a 1.0 ohm coil because he knew that was all his 18350 batteries could fire safely. The salesperson built a coil without even testing it's resistance. When the customer got home and tested it it was a 0.2 ohm coil. Obviously, this coil build would pull way over what his 18350 battery could supply and would cause it to go into thermal runaway. Below is what an IMR battery might look like when it goes into thermal runaway. An ICR battery would do the same, with the addition of flames.



To me this is just irresponsible of the vape shops who make a practice of this. The novice customers are ignorant, not knowing the potential dangers involved. But the salesmen who partake in this behavior either are ignoring the dangers or are only interested in making the sale. This is a sad state of affairs. Its only a matter of time before something really bad happens to someone. Then that will make national news with negative publicity for the entire e-cigarette community. Like we really need that.

Personally I won't try sub-ohm, because I'm not willing to subject myself or my home to the increased risks. Having experienced a runaway battery in a mechanical mod a long time ago, the experience made a strong impression on me. It made me realize how powerful these batteries are and how dangerous they can be. I think sport vaping and the cloud chasers have lost track of the reason they started vaping in the first place - to get off of cigarettes.

As PBusardo has said about the sport vapors, cloud chasers, and the sub-ohm crowd, "Sometimes just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

 

[Jazzi Mike]

Exactly, I have a 1.5 ohm semi-micro coil on my Reo currently. It puts out some serious clouds without creating a pipe bomb in my pocket.

I never saw the point. It srsly has gotten to the point where new vapers think you need a mechanical mod for an RBAs. When I read about someone just starting with RBAs and going sub ohm on their first build, it drives me nuts.

Honestly, I'm surprised there are not more stories about ecigs disfiguring people when they get a short after trying to fire their 0.2 ohm coils.

 

[Revelene]

If someone desires to do sub-ohm, understands what risks involved, understands the Ohm's Law principles, uses the proper equipment (batteries that have enough amp reserve), and checks their coils routinely with a meter I believe that's their business. Just do it right and safely.

The problem I have is with the growing trend of some local vape shops all across the country who are selling brand new vapors a sub-ohm RBA/RDA build as their very first e-cigarette. They provide no education or warnings on what to watch out for. They don't seem to care about what batteries the customer is using. The customers often don't have a multimeter to check the coils at home. They just send them home and tell them to blow some clouds.

Then these noobs come on ECF asking why their new mod's batteries, fire switch, or mod are getting too hot to touch. Or ask why their mod stopped working after the spring in their mod melted. These guys haven't done their research in how to use a mechanical mod safely let alone know how to do sub-ohms safely.

One new vapor who had done his homework went to one of these shops, purchased a new RBA and asked the salesman to make its first coil for him. He asked the salesman to make a 1.0 ohm coil because he knew that was all his 18350 batteries could fire safely. The salesperson built a coil without even testing it's resistance. When the customer got home and tested it it was a 0.2 ohm coil.

To me this is just irresponsible of the vape shops who make a practice of this. The novice customers are ignorant, not knowing the potential dangers involved. But the salesmen who partake in this behavior either are ignoring the dangers or are only interested in making the sale. This is a sad state of affairs. Its only a matter of time before something really bad happens to someone. Then that will make national news with negative publicity for the entire e-cigarette community. Like we really need that.

Personally I won't try sub-ohm, because I'm not willing to subject myself or my home to the increased risks. Having experienced a runaway battery in a mechanical mod a long time ago, the experience made a strong impression on me. It made me realize how powerful these batteries are and how dangerous they can be. I think sport vaping and the cloud chasers have lost track of the reason they started vaping in the first place - to get off of cigarettes.

As PBusardo has said about the sport vapors, cloud chasers, and the sub-ohm crowd, "Sometimes just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

I started on pre-filled cig-a-likes... it took me many many months to work my way into rebuildables and even then it took me a while to get confident enough in my builds that I would make sub ohm coils and dual coil setups...

 

[Curmudgeon]

I agree with everything Baditude said.

I also think we should have a little consideration for other people and not blow huge clouds in places where it might not be appreciated. Keep it at home or in the vape shop. It's no different than driving down the road with the bass thumping. No one is really impressed and many are offended or irritated.

 

[TheSystemHasFailed]

Easy, no lengthy responses needed. You asked why he did that? Because it's his preference. You will find that as the main factor in vaping.What you like.

 

[JmanEspresso]

I like subohm, but not for the clouds. And honestly, what I vape wouldnt even be considered subohm by some.

There are days when I will grab my Igo-W which is drilled out with dual 3.5mm airholes, setup a .2ohm dual coil, drip on some 100VG whatever juice, and have some fun.

but thats now how I vape, thats just pure enjoyment. To have a little fun screwin around. On THAT setup, flavor is not as intense.


How I actually like to vape, is with a good old fashioned single coil, setup anywhere from .7-1ohm. Atomizers are both Genesis and Silica RDA. Oh actually, I can't say I always do single coil, I just recently got a new hybrid which is setup for duals, and doesn't work very well in single mode, so one of my hybrids IS always in dual coil, but I run the ohms the same area, .7-1ohm.

Why this ohms?

Because that setup gives me the warmth and level of saturation that is TRULY satisfying. Now, do I blow clouds? Well, depends what you compare it to. Compare it to a cigalike, and yeah, Im a fog machine. Compare it to what I do with my IGO-W for fun, and no, I dont blow clouds. The amount of vapor to me, is more of an indicator that things are working right, than a goal. I build my atomizers so that I get 1)uber flavor 2)uber warmth 3)uber saturation. The vapor amount is plentiful, but its not crazy fog machine status.

On my daily setups(which is three hybrids, three regular mechs with whatever RBAs Im in the mood for, usually silica since Ive already got three hybrids running mesh, and sometimes a Provari), the flavor is intense, the throat hit is as firm as possible without being harsh in anyway, and the vapor is dense. But the actual plumage, is not all THAT big.

I suppose without a video its hard to describe, but Id be willing to be a lot of people setup their atomizers in a similar fashion, so probably have an idea of what I mean by dense plentiful vapor, but not a fog machine cloud blower.

 

[emus]

I have a few RBAs so I built a Pinoy style cloud machine.
It makes zero nic fun.
Fun to pass the time w/ awesome multi O's, dragon face, blocking TV commercials, etc.

It'd be awfully hard to go back to that wisp of vapor 2007 RN4081 cigalike

 

[Credo]

I could care less about the size of the clouds or the numbers on the atties....
I just fear battery failures from an unlearned novice.

I tinker too, and enjoy it much. I do it on a pass-through with good breakers/fuses that can handle the amps...not with an Ion battery. An 'oops' moment? I just trouble shoot and punch my little breaker button.

True, people who know what they are doing get high end batteries with 'high ratings'...but 'defects' do occur in ANYTHING chemistry/electronic. They are rated for 'industrial purposes'...feet away from people...in special enclosures...where they pretty much SIT in ONE PLACE throughout their life of cycles. True, they give some room for margin of error in those ratings...but at 2 inches from a person's face?
Possibly in a room full of very flammable stuff...or 'crowds' of people?

People who know what they're doing...when they are pushing gear to its limits don't post about it on YouTube as something safe and casual to practice. If they do share it, they give LOTS of head-room in their recommendations and lists of warnings and precautions to take before trying it.

Why not just get a 5v NIMH battery and wind for lower current?

Someone said micro-coils were sooooooooooo 2011. I beg to differ...in 2011 HV and off the shelf atties was the thing for the advanced level and the few people making their own coils and posting about them were trying all sorts of sizes and shapes. Dual Coil cartos at 1.5 Ohms were fresh off the boat...and destroying PVs all over the place. HV and self winding coils most CERTIANLY WAS NOT pushed on novices. In fact, I still remember one of the very first rebuildables sometime in 2011/12 we could just 'order' off a web site (Nhaler had a sub $50 kit). The few vets that were showing them off strongly advised running them on a Passthrough, and making simple coils of 2 Ohms and Up...even higher if you wanted to go with higher voltage. Yes...they knew about sub-ohm...and discussed it in small circles..but also knew it would be RISKY on the small battery tech of the day...so they kept it pretty darn low key.

Mod makers doing PWM were even keeping the regulated stuff down to 12ish watts to give the battery tech some room to grow before putting this stuff in people's faces. EVEN THOSE GUYS were wearing their safety glasses when they did it around their peers.

Those of us who watch the forums:
EVERY DAY almost we see someone with a sub-par battery/meter/etc. trying to sub-ohm...and wondering 'what went wrong'?

Lucky they, their property, and others around them weren't hurt...quite lucky.

 

[dr g]

Those of us who watch the forums:
EVERY DAY almost we see someone with a sub-par battery/meter/etc. trying to sub-ohm...and wondering 'what went wrong'?

Lucky they, their property, and others around them weren't hurt...quite lucky.

Then again, if it occurs so often and catastrophe never happens ... is it really luck?

 

[emus]

Then again, if it occurs so often and catastrophe never happens ... is it really luck?

It is a little surprising considering the number of clones that don't even have proper vent holes.
At least LiPo use isn't common.

 

[Credo]

Then again, if it occurs so often and catastrophe never happens ... is it really luck?

In many of the cases we read about on here...yes, it really was pushing the tech well beyond its boundaries, and the individual trying it had no clue.

Just knowing more about batteries and what not makes it a heck of a lot less 'luck'.

Also, vaping is young and growing industry without many government regulations, taxes, etc as of yet. The media, FDA, drug companies, tobacco industry, etc...are all LOOKING for reasons to jump in and TAKE OVER. City councils are drooling to ban the the stuff as they see revenues for tobacco tax stamps on the decline.

It will only take ONE person blowing his face off to give them an excuse to sit on the industry and its users so hard that it'll make our heads spin.

We've already seen it with other more wide spread tech that uses Ion cells (iPods, Cellphones, Laptops)...and they weren't nearly as controversial of applications. In such cases, the machine of threatened and applied class action law suits were big enough to wipe out an industry as young and small as the PV industry in one or two well calculated blows (at least the legit side of it...there would always be small black markets). Even a company like Apple spends millions per year fending off sensational journalists and ambulance chasing lawyers.

Please don't feed their fires.

In the least....if a story about some under 18 yo kid blowing his face off and burning a house down with an Ion battery hits the national media...expect to see prices start climbing for vapers. It's just a matter of time until governments sit on it with regulations, mandates, and taxes that will probably double if not triple the cost of vaping (while also cutting profit margins for the people trying to make a living from it in the middle). At that point...larger corps will take over with leverage and cut deals with the lobbiests to focus on 'profits/jobs/wealth redistribution' rather than focusing on the needs and demands of consumers...they'll be gunning for a monopoly at first...so consumer needs won't always be in the fore-front of their minds.

Believe me, it will only take ONE. If journalists can 'strap bottle rockets' and RIG a chevy pick-up to blow in front of a camera...and unjustly suck half a billion out of General Motors with full public approval (thanks to the media's distortion of the real dangers).....you better believe they can do attempt something similar with an eCig accident...they are primed and ready.

Progressive publications are ALREADY spreading half truths and out right lies about vaping...demanding FULL government regulation of the PV and anything associated with it. Pretty much all 50 states has hair splitting legislation on the table attempting to ban, limit, tax, or control, vaping.

We need a positive image as a more healthy alternative to smoking, and boat loads FRIENDS....not law suits and enemies (most of whom don't even vape).

 

[Heavyrocker]

I feel ''sub ohm '' vaping happens without planning,reason being is because you have to at least use 28 gauge wire,any thinner wire and it just ''snaps''...so using thicker wire means you have too do a lot more wraps just too get to 1.2 ohms,going too 1.5 ohms means 10 wraps,too much hot spots too deal with at this level,mecks were meant too be cloud chasers....my 2 cents,BTW.i wont go below .70 to 1.0 ohm,going below .5 is playing with fire.

 

[DaveP]

I have to wonder if the people who found true taste and satisfaction with sub ohm vaping might be a little insensitive to the mainstream flavor and aroma of 2 to 3 ohm vaping. There are days when I don't get the flavor and satisfaction from my 3.7v vape on a 2 ohm coil, but I know it will come back as my taste buds recover from whatever.

Cranking it to 6v just makes the taste go South every time I try it.

Acrolein production starts at around 500F, from test reports I have read. A couple report Acrolein as low as 280F. In any event, it's lung damaging if it happens. I like to keep my voltage/wattage at the lowest level that produces a pleasurable vape.

 

[emus]

Most high end gear probably has adequate vent holes; some clones do not.
Is anyone encouraging manufacturers/vendors/customers to produce/sell/buy mods with adequate vent holes?
Seems like a well vented tube would be less likely to explode.
Am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

[Heavyrocker]

I think there is a difference between 6 V vaping and subohm vaping,i used my Vamo at 5 volt max on a 1.2 wrap and it started too taste awful.

 

[Heavyrocker]

Most high end gear probably has adequate vent holes; some clones do not.
Is anyone encouraging manufacturers/vendors/customers to produce/sell/buy mods with adequate vent holes?
Seems like a well vented tube would be less likely to explode.
Am I barking up the wrong tree?

If a clone is missing a vent hole,i just drill one,no worries mate.

 

[Etownguy]

I just got a mech and a igo w dual coil I built a .7 ohm setup using cotton. With a 40/60 @12mg watermelon has never tasted so good. And yes I like the clouds hahah

Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk

 

[Credo]

I have to wonder if the people who found true taste and satisfaction with sub ohm vaping might be a little insensitive to the mainstream flavor and aroma of 2 to 3 ohm vaping. There are days when I don't get the flavor and satisfaction from my 3.7v vape on a 2 ohm coil, but I know it will come back as my taste buds recover from whatever.

Cranking it to 6v just makes the taste go South every time I try it.

Acrolein production starts at around 500F, from test reports I have read. A couple report Acrolein as low as 280F. In any event, it's lung damaging if it happens. I like to keep my voltage/wattage at the lowest level that produces a pleasurable vape.

Makes sense. Too much heat...not enough wicking action to keep up...possible breakdown of the coils chemistry, etc...all can lead to taste issues.

I suspect you've read up on the batteries and their limits and know what you're doing

It's not the clouds and the atty at issue. It's the safety of the power source that concerns some of us.

Do I loose sleep over it? Nah...but I'd like to hold the regulators and tax collectors out of vaping for a bit longer...at least until it's had a chance to get a fair stake in the grand scheme of things.

Right now the deck of cards is stacked against us...and battery accidents will be an ace in the hole for those looking to stamp out, regulate, or control vaping.

A kid blowing his face off would start a pretty drastic chain reaction of 'anti-vaping' propaganda.

 

[Gary Mcroy]

I agree with everything Baditude said.

I also think we should have a little consideration for other people and not blow huge clouds in places where it might not be appreciated. Keep it at home or in the vape shop. It's no different than driving down the road with the bass thumping. No one is really impressed and many are offended or irritated.

Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Woah, Lets no make villians of people who like load sound systems in their cars now. I dont listen to rap so the bass thumping isnt the desired affect but is unavoidable with subs playing loudly in a car. Lets get this thread back on track now. Woah, Woah, WOAH........ slow it down