Sorry... this one. Not the Feds .... yet
Illinois General Assembly - Bill Status for HB5689
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-sold-il-protect-children-2.html#post13220248
FDA Blu Ecigs UK chief expects few e-cigarette sellers to survive
- Thread starter Vocalek
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Sorry... this one. Not the Feds .... yet
Illinois General Assembly - Bill Status for HB5689
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-sold-il-protect-children-2.html#post13220248
Unliked your other post for scaring me like that..
Though via the wording of the deeming regs, one could make the case that the FDA is attempting to go after flavored zero-nic...
Unliked your other post for scaring me like that..
Though via the wording of the deeming regs, one could make the case that the FDA is attempting to go after flavored zero-nic...
Lol.... it shows that someone is paying attention to the 'no-nic' idea and understand how to close it down. Chances are, the Feds will notice as well.
It's already written like that in the FDA regs, in my eyes..
The thing is, I don't think they're going to be able to do it and get away with it...
Which makes it tricky for them, because they already know zero-nic is tied to everything else vape-related -- which is why they're trying, anyway.. Because they "have" to, in order to make their full case...
I don't think Zeller was lying when he said it's "complicated"..
They already know they have some weak ground to stand on in some areas...
Without the device or its components to put it in what's the difference?.. nic or zero nic... they can decide what's "intended" for use with nic.
MELT IT!
- Apr 2, 2009
- 5,171
- 13,288
- 66
At the moment, the FDA's proposed deeming regulation would regulate e-cigs very similar to the way UK MHRA has stated that it would regulate e-cigs (as both would likely approve fewer than a dozen products made by Big Tobacco companies and perhaps several large cigalike companies).
Ironically, the very same cigalike products that are likely to be approved by the FDA as "tobacco" products would likely be approved by the UK MHRA as "medicines".
But both UK MHRA and the US FDA are facing increasing pressure to modify/relax their regulatory schemes and to exempt/approve some/more Premium Vaporizer and e-liquid products, and this pressure will continue to mount if their sales continue to grow (and as more research documents their public health benefits for smokers).
Ironically, the very same cigalike products that are likely to be approved by the FDA as "tobacco" products would likely be approved by the UK MHRA as "medicines".
But both UK MHRA and the US FDA are facing increasing pressure to modify/relax their regulatory schemes and to exempt/approve some/more Premium Vaporizer and e-liquid products, and this pressure will continue to mount if their sales continue to grow (and as more research documents their public health benefits for smokers).
Last edited:
Cannot read your Attachment is that on purpose? Last time I tried that it took me a day to figure it out......
No its not on purpose. ECF seems to use small images and today it's very quirky. Also every browser is different. I can't use several image hosts like PhotoBucket.
Amazing how they seem to be in agreement with each other (not really). I also ran into an article today talking about how the entry level (cigalike) sales were flat (or decreasing) and the more advanced pv's were increasing. I wouldn't be suprised if that increases the pressure on FDA to relax as well.
Actually, no they can't...
I'm officially down to full-time zero-nic these days..
And as such, my PVs, my clearos & my zero-nic non-WTA e-liquid, which are all used in conjunction with one another, have absolutely *nothing* to do with nicotine -- let alone tobacco use -- in my case, & the same goes for all the other vapers out there who use zero-nic...
This is completely out of the FDA's Center for Tobacco Products' jurisdiction, plain & simple...
Should we also start regulating kitchen-knife companies as weapons manufacturers, for example, just because some people use those products as such?
Same thing with nic & no nic...
Sorry, but I am no longer using any tobacco products.. Anybody who tries to prove that I am will make themselves look like an idiot & a BS'er, to put it nicely..
And again, this is just one of the reasons why Zeller said it's "complicated" -- because they already know they can't regulate something that they're not allowed to!
According to the Federal Drug Paraphernalia Statute, 21 USC 863, which is part of the Controlled Substances Act, in the USA it is illegal to sell, transport through the mail, transport across state lines, import, or export drug paraphernalia as defined. Possession is usually illegal under State law. The law gives specific guidance on determining what constitutes drug paraphernalia. Many states have also enacted their own laws prohibiting drug paraphernalia. In the 1982 case Hoffman Estates v. The Flipside, Hoffman Estates, Inc., the U.S. Supreme Court found a municipal ordinance requiring licensing for paraphernalia sales to have sufficiently distinguished marketing for illegal use to be constitutional. Government crackdowns have resulted in the arrest of sellers of recreational drug paraphernalia, such as actor Tommy Chong, who spent time in prison in 2003 for having his name used on ....s for sale via the internet.[1]
The American drug paraphernalia laws can also apply to many items that have more legitimate uses than for illegal drugs. Small mirrors and other glass products (such as Pyrex test tubes and "glass {OTHER STUFF} pipes"), lighters, rolled up currency, razor blades, aluminum/tin foil, credit cards, and spoons have all been used to prosecute people under paraphernalia laws, whether or not they contain residue of illegal drugs
wiki
The American drug paraphernalia laws can also apply to many items that have more legitimate uses than for illegal drugs. Small mirrors and other glass products (such as Pyrex test tubes and "glass {OTHER STUFF} pipes"), lighters, rolled up currency, razor blades, aluminum/tin foil, credit cards, and spoons have all been used to prosecute people under paraphernalia laws, whether or not they contain residue of illegal drugs
wiki
Last edited by a moderator:
Certainly leaves door open for prosecution, but seems like it would be easily challenged as nicotine is not an illegal drug.
If item contains zero residue of illegal substance (which arguably overwhelming majority of items do), then I'm curious if there is an exception to the Federal Drug Paraphernalia Statute with this consideration. Would seem to be the type of statute that needs no probable cause and could prosecute anyone for using anything for any purpose.
The laws have become complicated enough that interpretations of any law can be troublesome...
Cops Use Traffic Stops To Seize Millions From Drivers Never Charged With A Crime
Cops Use Traffic Stops To Seize Millions From Drivers Never Charged With A Crime
In our home, the cops would find syringes used for human insulin injections, animal inoculations, meat marinades and for ejuice preparations containing both nic and no nic so it still comes down to "intended" use... Big Brother decides your fate on its whims. Frankly, I've been silent for a while as this churns within. I've experienced this before in my life. It was in the 60s before taking it to the streets. I keep reading that the FDA is experiencing "pressure" due to vaping popularity and I ask... where from and what kind that is precisely? A vendor I've been using, for instance, seems to be running scared to the point where I've decided not to patronize them anymore... so is the "pressure" us, vendors, lawyers?.... who exactly and in what form?
Last edited:
The FDA is experiencing pressure from both sides. From Big Pharma especially, which means also ANTZ. Quietly from BT I suspect. And on the other side, from CASAA, a number of scientists, and, I'm sure alarmingly to them, an increasing scientific voices saying "Hey, guys, you're full of it so far with your studies!
Vendors should be running scared to the point of organizing, joining SFATA, contacting the Small Business administration, and letting their customers know that CASAA needs members and needs people to read up on what the FDA regs would REALLY do so that they don't comment "good, I want that" when what they really would want is REASONABLE regulation, which is not really what is proposed at this point in time.
Any other scared behavior, especially if it is enough to chase you away to another vendor, has me going "Huh??? WTH?" What is this guy doing? Hiding under the cash register?
Yeh, cash register is it... dropping prices, apparently to get rid of inventory, and it includes juice to where I can't trust it anymore... also customer service has gone pretty much to nil as bailing out doesn't require a good reputation. The CASAA logo and FDA proposal went up on the site at the same time this started so the knowledge is there but the decision seems to be "get out without too much loss while we can."
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
