BT buying e cig maker?

[rkh3]

Philip Morris In Negotiations With Original E-Cigarette Company


Little is known about the backdoor meetings with little to any media coverage


by Tiffany Ellis

HOUSTON, TX -- (OfficialWire) -- 11/04/09 --

What many e-cigarette users have feared from day one could be in the works: Philip Morris, the biggest maker of tobacco cigarettes in the United States, has been discovered to be in negotiations with Ruyan Group, which manufactured the original e-cigarette starting in 2005. A short news article on Quamnet.com states the seriousness of the matter:

“Ruyan Group said that an agreement between the Company and Philip Morris International Management S.A. could not be reached on matters relating to the co-operation between them on its “electronic cigarettes” by the end of the first and exclusive phase of negotiations.”

As the Food and Drug Administration has recently been given authority over the tobacco industry, the move by Philip Morris could be a carefully calculated move to gain controlling interest over the products inside the United States and abroad. The motives of the company are unclear at this point, but speculations include everything from wanting to shut the industry down by acquiring the rights to it all the way to possibly launching its own e-cigarette product and taking it mainstream.

Ruyan Group's stock trading was suspended on November 2nd pending an announcement on a price sensitive matter. This could be related to a sudden 20% jump in the company's stock price.

But, that isn't the first time Ruyan Group's stock has soared. Back in June, the stock rose over 35% after the announcement that the Company was negotiating with what Quamnet called an “independent third party”. Shortly afterward on July 6th, that third party became known to be Philip Morris.

In related news, Ruyan Group also sold their office properties for HK$28.57 million to an undisclosed buyer on October 23rd.

What this could mean for the e-cigarette industry both in the United States and internationally is uncertain, but what's clear is this: Philip Morris wants in.


PRINTED FROM OFFICIALWIRE

 

[Dredbull]

NOO!! RUYAN should be the slayer of BT not the pawns of BT!!

 

[Oliver]

Please edit with link to original source and limit the number of paragraphs to two as per: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...inking-news-stories-read-before-you-post.html

 

[wiscoking13]

wow big news to say the least.
My guess is they want to shut it down, you would think if big tobacco wanted in they have the money to back themselves.

Or the Runyan group owns a ton of pattens that big tobacco wants

 

[IANAN]

Ruyan owns the patent on the e-cig.

PM released a product called the Accord. The accord vaporized tobacco and VG and looked like some of the mods here- it was not on the market very long.

The RJR product- called the Eclipse is still on the market as far as I can tell-- well I just bought a pack- had to look around for them though.

 

[doots]

Wonder why it took them so long.. lol

You knew this was coming..

 

[danielwd]

As of now, 00329 (Ruyan Group Holdings) still is under trading suspension. Just checked and no trading is occuring.

 

[Scottbee]

I think Ianan may have hit it close to the head. Ruyan basically holds "THE" patent on PV's. It's a pretty comprehensive patent, and it has been filed/PAF'd in the U.S. as well (May 2007). It is my understanding that most of the Chinese PV manufacturers have a licensing agreement with Ruyan (there are some exceptions.. and some of those exceptions have led to court cases already).

If PM can come to an agreement with Ruyan, or otherwise acquire Ruyan or their patent holdings, then the manufacturer of most of the PV's that we know and love could come to an abrupt end. Or.... PM could become a domestic manufacturer and or licensee of the technology.

The FDA may not be our biggest problem here. On the other hand, PM could become our biggest friend.

 

[General Idea]

A mainstream PM owned/designed ecig would make me worry.

I don't think they are looking to stop the trend by buying in. They've been banking on the addictive quality of nicotine for quite some time. I would NEVER trust their eliquids though - they would find special CRACK additives to keep you coming back to their brand.

Imagine a real marlboro juice, branded and all. Heck, they could afford take a loss and give everyone in America a disposable ecig and update their mailing list while their at it.

This is a very natural move in a lot of ways - the FDA recently banned flavored cigarettes and I'll bet their marketing people are stoked with the new potential.

 

[Scottbee]

I'm not worried about e-liquid. I think we will always be able to find a source for liquid.

Finding a source for decent attys... that's another story!

 

[nyabzns]

I might sound like an idiot but I have a thought. I had read the Phillip Morris had lowered there prices on cigarettes in conjunction with some of the government tax hikes to keep prices down to a reasonable level.

Perhaps a purchase of the company and it's patents would allow them to use the tobacco to extract the nicotine, make a US based E-Juice and market an E-cig of there own. At the same time they have the means to fight the FDA regulation if indeed the regulation is strictly for tobacco products.

In the end it could result in wider availability and recognition of e-cigs.

With the New FDA regulations I wouldn't understand a tobacco companies desire to eliminate e-cigarettes when they themselves are being regulated out of existence already. Eliminating e-cigarette "competition" wouldn't necessarily make them more money if a reasonable number of people are forced to quit smoking because they can't afford it or the FDA regulates the nicotine levels in analogs.

 

[windpath]

As far as I can see RUYAN does not hold a single US patent:

Patents - RUYAN Electronic Cigarette Offical International Website ? Beijing SBT Ruyan Technology & Development Co., Ltd.

And even if they did inelectual property law is very difficult to enforce. They defiantly did not invent the atomizer, the battery, PG, the heating coils, the "wool" batting, nicotine, the "cigarette look" etc...

There are documented research trials from the 1940's of vaporizing and inhaling PG, was RUYAN selling e-cigs in the 40s?

Frankly several manfacturers/distributors (including US ones) are falsely claiming patents they do not have and will likely never get.

If RUYAN holds a US patent what is the patent number, control number, or PCT number?

 

[IANAN]

Hon, Lik (of Ruyan) filed at least 2 applications - you can see them here; http://www.google.com/patents?q=Hon+Lik&btnG=Search+Patents

and another- this one actually appears to be granted;

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph...d=PG01&s1="hon+lik"&OS="hon+lik"&RS="hon+lik"

In 2007 they sued NJoy

Philip Morris already had a patent issued on electronic smoking devices in 1997;

http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=Qd8WAAAAEBAJ&dq=Electronic+Cigarette

 

[windpath]

PM's patent states:

A stand for an electrically heated cigarette smoking device can removably support an electrically heated cigarette smoking device, which includes a rechargeable power supply.

No idea what that is....

RUYAN's is still an application, not approved, and very vague...

If anything it would only cover a specific 3 piece design.

Aside from that if you ask any intellectual properties lawyer having a patent or trademark is one thing, having an enforcable one is something else completely, and enforcing it is a whole different game altogether...

 

[kinabaloo]

A potentially huge story.

Now, if I was RuYan I'd say no to all buyouts, because the only benefit would be short-term (tempting of course). I would guess this is a licensing deal.

 

[bikergirl1908]

BT is all about money...and the FDA is in their pocket.

If BT is negotiating to get into the e-cig ball game, I think it's so they can cash in on the electronic aspect of nicotine addiction and add to their already astronomical analog profit margin.

Imagine a day when you can go to your local store and purchase a carton of Marlboro analogs as well as a carton of Marlboro branded cartridges or ejuice in varying mg strengths. 8-o

Whoever controls the regulation controls the money and vice versa.

Just my .02.

 

[Liscab]

Please edit with link to original source and limit the number of paragraphs to two as per: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...inking-news-stories-read-before-you-post.html

Are yuo this guy scrol to Javier
Vapeando.com • Ver Tema - PEG 400. ¿El último disolvente?

 

[VapingRulz]

BT is all about money...and the FDA is in their pocket.

If BT is negotiating to get into the e-cig ball game, I think it's so they can cash in on the electronic aspect of nicotine addiction and add to their already astronomical analog profit margin.

Imagine a day when you can go to your local store and purchase a carton of Marlboro analogs as well as a carton of Marlboro branded cartridges or ejuice in varying mg strengths. 8-o

Whoever controls the regulation controls the money and vice versa.

Just my .02.

I'm no fan of Big Tobacco, but where is the money really going? It seems to me that it's the taxes that have made cigarettes so expensive, not the product itself.

My worry is that the government will slap an enormous "sin tax" on e-cigs and juice. The more popular e-cigs become, the more likely it is that both BT and the government will want their cut - especially when they start to see tax revenues dry up as smokers turn instead to vaping.

Anyone who *really* believes that taxes on tobacco products are all about public health is mistaken, in my opinion. Now more than ever, it's about the money, which brings me back to my original point. BT is not seeing huge profits like federal and state governments are. They can tax smokers to death without a peep of protest from the non-smoking majority.

 

[ladyraj]

It's not BT making all the money...it's the government.

Here is a breakdown of a pack of smokes in my State and where the funds are going. Keep in mind that our State and Federal government is BROKE!

My smokes cost: $4.50 Per pack

State excise tax: $1.25
Fed Tax: $1.01
MSA Trust: $ .84 (4.2 cents per cigarette sold)
Sales Tax: $ .34 (7.5%)
---------
Total Tax: $3.44

Ciggies cost: $4.50 minus tax to state and feds of $3.44 leaves $1.06 for the tobacco companies. Please keep in mind I have not included the retail mark-up in the above numbers and therefore the tobacco companies are making less than a dollar per pack. It's the State and Federal Government that are making the big bucks from tobacco smokers.

Therefore, a safe prediction for the treatment of the e-cig would be the government regulating heavy taxation via the cost of the e-cig to fund a campaign against your ability to purchase and use an e-cig.

It's a shell game...follow the dollars and the government wins.

 

[ECGuy]

PM could become our biggest friend.

PM is no ones friend! LOL, and don't expect any licensing agreements. With PM and all of Big Tobacco, it's their show or no show at all. They already have the distribution network in place. They don't need any of the current manufacturers, distributors or retailers / affiliates. Trying to work with them would be more a hinderance then a help.

My gut tells me they want the technology. Its part of the major corp mentality, see a competitor, buy them up. And there are lots of reasons for them to buy Ruyan.

Aside from that if you ask any intellectual properties lawyer having a patent or trademark is one thing, having an enforcable one is something else completely, and enforcing it is a whole different game altogether...

Yes, but patents are fought for in court. What e-cig manufaturer or company has the money to fight big tobacco? To them the legal costs would be lunch, their army of lawyers could bury anyone in the industry at this time in paperwork and discovery and legal fees without breaking a sweat.