building the ultimate bottom feeder

[vapero]

or probably easier a type of manual water pump but in miniature where https://www.google.com.mx/search?q=...&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=1&tbm=isch
I think this would be your best bet and you could use a glass bottle instead of tubes

 

[turbocad6]

I did think of that, also thought about just attaching a tube or a rubber squeezer to the end of the glass tank, would be much easier of course but at that point may as well just stay with the plastic bottles... ideally I would like the only things that contact the juice to be glass and stainless steel and of course an O ring or delrin maybe. my whole thoughts are to remove anything that flexes and deteriorates because of flexing from the tank system. I would like to build something that could be used continuously, indefinitely and be durable... to me the only consumables should be the juice and the wick/wire, just like any non bottom feed setup would be. once you start introducing a flexy part of the tank that deteriorates with use then may as well just stay with plastic squeeze bottles, although if the flexy part was not actually containing the juice itself and just used to pressurize then I would still see that as an improvement I guess

 

[turbocad6]

just seen your second post... those pumps are similar to what would ultimately wind up being built in miniature form, but they're more designed to pump fluid one way where I want something that more pumps then retracts the excess of what was pumped. trying to just get a metered delivery one way might make something that will be very hard to not flood, my thoughts are surge up, wet the wick, surge the excess back to the tank, just like what the squeeze bottle now accomplishes, although it may be possible to build a setup that only goes one way too. benefits and drawbacks to each approach I guess, a one way pump like those would be nice in that you would never contaminate the rest of the juice in the tank from having it hit the wick/burner and then return this to the tank... my initial tests should give me more to go on as to which way I think I'll pursue

 

[fatherdano]

i'm subscribing to this thread and predict you end up with a REO or build something based off the REO.

In any case try the REO out first to edumacate your taste to a starting point of an 'ultimate' bottom feeder.


Good Luck

 

[turbocad6]

fatherdano, I really don't mean to discredit the REO in any way when I say "ultimate" in my title, and I think I agree that at this point the REO is considered to be the ultimate commercially available mass produced bottom feeder to many people, but you must realize that the REO is designed and built to be easy to mass produce, and designed to be cost effective. if I buy a REO for myself I don't think I'd touch it as far as modifying it, I'd use it the way it is designed and I'm sure I'd be very happy with it as-is, again I don't mean to disparage the REO in any way, it's just that I have ideas for myself that I think I can build something different and improve upon what it is that I ultimately want in a bottom feeder.

as awesome as the REO is, I'm sure that you can't say that there is absolutely no room for improvement at all, game ended right there, there is always room for improvement. the aluminum box with the little magnet door design is effective, but I don't think anyone can say that it is the end all/be all, definitive best way it can be done and personally I see no value in using a 510 connection which is a week point considering I will be using a rebuildable coil setup

the first one I want to build is going to be a micro/mini type setup. aluminum is not ideal for this because aluminum would need to be thicker to have the same strength where with steel I can have thin walls at places that just wouldn't be strong enough in aluminum. my design has no need for a door and I consider that a weak point so I'm designing mine to have no door, only a fill port and a battery access hole with a threaded or hinged cap. I am building the first one from a solid steel billet, don't have any solid chunks of SS laying around large enough and I want to perfect a design before moving to stainless steel. I'm designing this one around a 14650 battery, nice and slim, about the size of a AA battery but 15mm longer. the battery I will use is rated up to 4.8A discharge and rated at 1,600 mAh, but in reality it's around 1,300 mAh, plenty for a mini I think. I'm also designing this one around a 12MM tank tube, I want it to be pretty compact

here is a few shots of the beginnings of it, it will not remain round as it is now, the front and rear faces will be cut down flat with just the outer edges remaining rounded. fitting the DNA 20D in this thing will be challenging, as small as it is, it's not small when working on a small MOD the battery shown is a 14500, AA size, but I'll order a 14650's which are 15mm longer than this. this is only the main center body, the 2 end caps will most likely be SS, I need to order SS material and wait for glass supplies.

 

[turbocad6]

here are a few shots of what I'm building. I started this thread in the bottom feed forum to discuss an alternate bottom feed method but I guess when I get this thing further along I'll put a thread in the mods forum, here I think it seems were only going to compare this to the REO but honestly the REO really isn't much of a factor in my actual build. this will still be massaged to be even thinner than it is now just don't want to remove too much material in the wrong place until I finalize the design

 

[turbocad6]

the reason it is slightly wedge shaped is because that is the best way it fits in my hand, that's why I decided on a 12mm glass tube instead of 14mm to match the battery size, then it would have been square instead of the slight wedge design.

 

[Blix]

Looks great so far!

 

[_more_]

would a glass syringe leak? could it be used instead of a bottle. i am not a inventer or modder but admire those types of people.

eta: the reason i asked about a glass syringe is because the plunger is built in and i don't think syringes leak. Plus it would be cool if it had the markings on it for measurement.

good luck on your dream maker quest I wish you all the best

 

[vapero]

here are a few shots of what I'm building. I started this thread in the bottom feed forum to discuss an alternate bottom feed method but I guess when I get this thing further along I'll put a thread in the mods forum, here I think it seems were only going to compare this to the REO but honestly the REO really isn't much of a factor in my actual build. this will still be massaged to be even thinner than it is now just don't want to remove too much material in the wrong place until I finalize the design

Wow it's turning out amazingly well!! can't wait to see more

 

[turbocad6]

thanks and thanks for the syringe suggestion too, but the problem with a syringe is that when it's full of liquid the plunger pusher has to be extended out about an equal length to the length of the holding tank itself, so it's twice as long for the same capacity, a syringe that would fit my device would limit my fluid capacity by at least 50% and I doubt I'd ever find the perfect size to fit so it really has to be built from scratch.

my fluid capacity will be at least 3.5ml. I could add more fluid capacity to the base if I want but that would wind up making the device even larger and I want it to be as micro sized as possible. I think a days worth of juice in a mini is enough, that and one battery swap for a whole day would give me a total of 2,600 mAh's worth of battery juice and at least 3.5ml of nico juice for an average full days worth of vaping and then some for me, all in a mini that can fully hide in the palm of my hand and still be durable and tough.

I think I'm going to use some sort of injectable valve design for the tank filler so filling will be as quick and effortless as possible. inject fluid and swap out batteries and keep on going, I also want to make the battery swapping to be as quick and effortless as possible too.

I never really liked the universally common tip design and general mouthpiece design on most Ecig's out there including anything I've ever had. I hate that when you put it in your pocket it's essentially just an open bucket for debris, and pointing up no less. lint and other foreign matter can collect in the tip when it's in your pocket, dust can collect in it when standing on a desk or table. I do a lot of dusty work and grinding at times, and there are times my body can be covered in dust that goes everywhere, including my pockets...

I've had many times that enough crap collected in there that it ruined the atty and many times that I would actually taste the plastic I was just grinding burning in my Ecig, ahh I just don't get it, why aren't there more designs that actually close the tip when not in use? are there even any? closest I've seen is the Darwin, but that nly turns the tip to pointing down I think. I want my device to close when I put it in my pocket, and when closed be relatively sealed and dust tight, and not have a big tip pointing out of the top of it. hell I was able to get rid of the jutting up antenna sticking out of my cell phones many years ago, why do I have to have jutting up tips sticking out of my Ecig when I store it in my pocket? my ultimate is going to look almost like a flip open zippo lighter type form when closed, the tip will extend open when I want to vape It, then fold closed and sealed to stick it in my pocket. that's what I see as an ultimate design.

I'm building my ultimate to eliminate all of the pet peeves I have with all of the other designs out there and to do that I have to build it from the ground up ... each of the many other designs have there good and bad and some are even really great devices of course, but none are the ultimate to me or have everything I'd ultimately want in any one single device, this is why I call it the ultimate, doesn't necessarily mean mine is better than yours or any others, just that what I'm building here is everything that I ultimately want in my own device if I could really design it any way I want from scratch

what I am now considering trying to do in my design is to build an accurate calibrated delivery bottom feed, each time I press the trigger or turn the wheel one click it will deliver a set calibrated amount of fluid, the exact amount of fluid the wick needs to be saturated and ready for a vape. no more and no less, and not leak in between no matter how the device is oriented, upside down or sideways. this would be the constant feed type pressure method. I have a few ideas of how to do it but must run some tests to see if I can successfully do what I'm imagining and get it to not leak. if I can't get my new ideas to be successful then I'll resort to plan B which is more of the pump and retract type pressure setup, much like a REO type pressure feed, but still an accurate calibrated amount of feed rather than the less accurate squonking or squeezing of a soft bottle. I'm expecting plan A to succeed though so it will probably be just a small calibrated positive feed on each trigger rather than the feed and retract type pressure setup

 

[Blix]

Many good inventions have come from pet peeves, keep at it.

 

[Ryedan]

Sounds good turbocad. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[studiovap]

thanks and thanks for the syringe suggestion too, but the problem with a syringe is that when it's full of liquid the plunger pusher has to be extended out about an equal length to the length of the holding tank itself, so it's twice as long for the same capacity, a syringe that would fit my device would limit my fluid capacity by at least 50% and I doubt I'd ever find the perfect size to fit so it really has to be built from scratch.

my fluid capacity will be at least 3.5ml. I could add more fluid capacity to the base if I want but that would wind up making the device even larger and I want it to be as micro sized as possible. I think a days worth of juice in a mini is enough, that and one battery swap for a whole day would give me a total of 2,600 mAh's worth of battery juice and at least 3.5ml of nico juice for an average full days worth of vaping and then some for me, all in a mini that can fully hide in the palm of my hand and still be durable and tough.

I think I'm going to use some sort of injectable valve design for the tank filler so filling will be as quick and effortless as possible. inject fluid and swap out batteries and keep on going, I also want to make the battery swapping to be as quick and effortless as possible too.

I never really liked the universally common tip design and general mouthpiece design on most Ecig's out there including anything I've ever had. I hate that when you put it in your pocket it's essentially just an open bucket for debris, and pointing up no less. lint and other foreign matter can collect in the tip when it's in your pocket, dust can collect in it when standing on a desk or table. I do a lot of dusty work and grinding at times, and there are times my body can be covered in dust that goes everywhere, including my pockets...

I've had many times that enough crap collected in there that it ruined the atty and many times that I would actually taste the plastic I was just grinding burning in my Ecig, ahh I just don't get it, why aren't there more designs that actually close the tip when not in use? are there even any? closest I've seen is the Darwin, but that nly turns the tip to pointing down I think. I want my device to close when I put it in my pocket, and when closed be relatively sealed and dust tight, and not have a big tip pointing out of the top of it. hell I was able to get rid of the jutting up antenna sticking out of my cell phones many years ago, why do I have to have jutting up tips sticking out of my Ecig when I store it in my pocket? my ultimate is going to look almost like a flip open zippo lighter type form when closed, the tip will extend open when I want to vape It, then fold closed and sealed to stick it in my pocket. that's what I see as an ultimate design.

I'm building my ultimate to eliminate all of the pet peeves I have with all of the other designs out there and to do that I have to build it from the ground up ... each of the many other designs have there good and bad and some are even really great devices of course, but none are the ultimate to me or have everything I'd ultimately want in any one single device, this is why I call it the ultimate, doesn't necessarily mean mine is better than yours or any others, just that what I'm building here is everything that I ultimately want in my own device if I could really design it any way I want from scratch

what I am now considering trying to do in my design is to build an accurate calibrated delivery bottom feed, each time I press the trigger or turn the wheel one click it will deliver a set calibrated amount of fluid, the exact amount of fluid the wick needs to be saturated and ready for a vape. no more and no less, and not leak in between no matter how the device is oriented, upside down or sideways. this would be the constant feed type pressure method. I have a few ideas of how to do it but must run some tests to see if I can successfully do what I'm imagining and get it to not leak. if I can't get my new ideas to be successful then I'll resort to plan B which is more of the pump and retract type pressure setup, much like a REO type pressure feed, but still an accurate calibrated amount of feed rather than the less accurate squonking or squeezing of a soft bottle. I'm expecting plan A to succeed though so it will probably be just a small calibrated positive feed on each trigger rather than the feed and retract type pressure setup

Hi mate, reading your thread is like hearing all my current thoughts spelled out, I'm right with you on the plunger thing, and the pionless 510 connector issue, so much space is wasted in current designs, it is a challenge though to come up with a more eloquent while still reliable solution to beat a Reo. I think it can be done, and I wish you the best and will check back to see how you went

 

[_more_]

IDK about beating the REO but it could be another valuable addition for bottom feeders. I say valuable in the way the users needs are met,not just how much it would cost.

I go by what works for me and REO does in every way. I wouldn't change a thing even though I would buy what the REO inventor makes, cause he only makes the best

Anyway it is interesting to watch a mod being planned out, so i like this thread!

 

[turbocad6]

the only thing my mod will have in common with the reo is that they're both bottom feed, it will have that in common with all of the other bottom feeds out there too I guess, but it will be done in a different way from pretty much anything else out there. I actually wouldn't mind having a reo and have been looking at them, first because I believe that it is a great bottom feed mod that I'd love to use and experience and second because I recognize that the reo is regarded as the best implementation of bottom feed out there and it would give me a good reference to know if mine in the end is at least as good in overall functionality

I've actually been looking for a reo and thinking about getting one, looked in the classifieds too but if I'm going to spend the $ then I'd rather have VV so that would mean 2 hundred and change with a rba, then the other night while browsing for the materials I need to just finish this mod I winded up going off the deep end and buying a few hundred bucks worth of stainless steel and brass material, along with some delrin and nylon, enough materials to keep me busy for quite a long time for me I see it as the money I would have spend on any one high end mod, instead I bought enough material to build several hand made high end mods for myself and to also be able to build them my own way. if my pump setup works well then I'll probably build another larger one around a 18650


anyway, first one for me to finish is this one here in this thread and to build the first prototype of my own bottom feed pump design. what I have in mind should work very well and be leakproof and be pretty cool, but "should be" only means so much, the end result is what will show if it "is" or not I guess. I'll update as it progresses, and again just to be clear here, I am not building anything here for commercial purposes or to resell, I'm building this for personal use and have no intesions of mass producing anything myself, but will share the ideas and designs here with the community.

 

[turbocad6]

ok, here are a couple of sketches of my "ultimate" mod's overall design. it's based on a small circulation pump I designed that will be built into the base, when you squeeze the trigger "in", the feed line will feed out a specific volume of fluid (or air), and when the trigger is released "out", the overflow line will suck back in an equal amount of air (or fluid).






if I sat there and continuously pumped the trigger, in/out in/out in/out etc... what would happen would be the "sink" right below the coil will surge up with fluid and then surge down as it's returned to the tank, so the "sink" (atty wick reservoir) will pretty much fill up to the top and no more, just like a bathroom sink would, even if you kept it flowing continuously, it will fill and then the excess will run off in the return and cannot overfill. the wick sit's in this reservoir it can not flood, because as much as is fed is then sucked back in, so it can never get too much fluid, yet it will always get enough fluid to completely fill the atty wick reservoir and fully saturate the wick.

if I then vape a little bit I'll consume the juice and dry out the wick a bit, then either pump and vape again, or just flip it closed and throw it in my pocket. vacuum will keep whatever fluid remains in the feed and return tubes so it will not leak and if there is a little runoff or slight seepage it would only be enough to re saturate the wick

with my pump design the tank is 100% sealed in and out when the trigger is at rest, so it is impossible for the stored tank fluid to ever leak any fluid at all, no matter what orientation the device is in.

if I ever wanted to suck back all of the juice that's in the feed tube and the "sink" reservoir I can tilt the mod over sideways like this:





then the feed output winds up being at the highest point in the whole tank system, so all the air rushes there of course, so as I pump the trigger while tilting it sideways I pump out air and suck back fluid until the fluid is all sucked back. at that point all I'm doing is pumping and sucking air, so I stop but at that point all fluid is sucked back to the tank which is 100% sealed, so again, no leaking is possible, no matter how the mod is oriented or thrown around in my pocket.

the sealed recirculating bottom feed atty setup is the main point of me building my "ultimate"mod, but the secondary big thing for me is my upper head design. with my hinged mouthpiece design, when the mouthpiece is folded closed it's pretty much sealed to dirt dust and lint, and the mouthpiece also blocks the firing trigger when it's closed, so it's automatically locked when closed and foolproof. this is such an obvious way to do this that I'm surprised no one has ever done this before, have I said how much I really hate the whole pointing up drip tip design of just about everything out there?







so that's my "ultimate" design of everything I think I want in a personal vaporizer, as you can see I have no choice but to build it because there is no other way to have it or to prove to myself that it's as good in reality as it is in concept, I hope

 

[studiovap]

All sounds good mate, what I can't get my head around is how you are going to have a pump (much like a brake master cylinder) that will circulate enough juice with such a small travel on the button/piston. I have been at the same point myself, but I do not have access to a lathe to experiment. you presumably need a return spring and enough piston shaft to carry it in addition to the bore length.
What are your piston assembly's dimensions and have you prototyped the system yet?

 

[turbocad6]

I have not actually prototyped it yet, still waiting on some materials. the key to what you are talking about is going to be to use a very small volume tube for the feed and return lines, I'm going to use glass tube with 1mm inner diameter while my piston can be ~ 10mm in diameter, maybe even 2 side by side 8mm's? the piston displacement should cause the feed tube to completely fill and overflow even with very little travel, when primed then it should do it with just one or 2 pumps, if the whole feed is dry then it may take several pumps but both the output and return on the pump will be basically one way check valves, so worse case it takes several pumps to prime and feed.

I haven't done the actual math yet but the feed tube will be ~ 60mm long, 1mm inner diameter, the piston can be ~10mm diameter single or possibly dual smaller ones for a lower profile, with up to 5mm stroke, doing the math to calculate the volume of the tube VS the displacement of the piston will show exactly how much each pump will fill, but no matter what, a few repeated pumps simply has to do the job. I also do not want it to surge up too high on any one pumping so I may even need to limit the pump travel or reduce piston size if it displaces too much...

I really should do the math I guess, I probably will before I build the prototype and see from there but as long as the "in" and the "out" are both one way check valves it has to work even if displacements aren't ideal, weather it takes a lot of pumping or just a little is what the actual math would answer I guess but I should be able to calculate the correct piston size and stroke and it should fall somewhere within these parameters I think. I don't need a whole lot of displacement on each pumping or it will overflow the atty reservoir before the return stroke, and it wouldn't bother me much if I have to pump pump pump pump each time vs just one pump and go

 

[SilentEcho13]

Sooo...uhh... when can I buy one?