Burning Cartomisers? Dangerous?-510/Kr808/4081...etc filler type cartos

[earthpig]

In a separate section I noticed the Bloog as 3.0-3.2 ohm. Seems normal on these carto's but isn't the point to get lower ohms like
Llitecig LR @2 ohm
VL4WOW @2-2.2 ohm
LeCig @2.4 ohm.

I know were talking about burn here, and I came close to ordering Bloogs to try em, but it sounds like similar issues are going on . Fluid type definitely has a differing consistency/effect. Johnson Creek Dk Choc, as an example will clog my carto's in 1 filling.

 

[Quick1]

In a separate section I noticed the Bloog as 3.0-3.2 ohm. Seems normal on these carto's but isn't the point to get lower ohms like
Llitecig LR @2 ohm
VL4WOW @2-2.2 ohm
LeCig @2.4 ohm.

I know were talking about burn here, and I came close to ordering Bloogs to try em, but it sounds like similar issues are going on . Fluid type definitely has a differing consistency/effect. Johnson Creek Dk Choc, as an example will clog my carto's in 1 filling.

Like Leaford said, they are a system. Depends on the coil, wick, where it's located in the carto, juice feed, battery, etc, etc,. 3Ω could be too cold or it could be too hot, depends.

 

[Katya]

But what's the general consensus? We like them right? But do we like them enough to move them to Number 1, or just into our list of Favorites?

Not yet. They have great potential, but we're not there yet. With resistance all over the place, we're playing Russian roulette here with those cartomizers. Some work great out of the box, and work well for awhile, but the performance diminishes quickly due to too much heat, IMO. Others develop that dreaded burnt taste early on.

Autopsied my Bloog tonight. I only got about 5 mm of juice through it. Wasn't burned at all but the coil on the bottom was totally full of burned juice gunk which messed up the taste. The bottom of the "cover" which rests on the coil was black as well.

I liked the draw a lot on the one I got. But whether it's burned fillings and/or socks or juice gunk on the coil, one way or the other the carto still gets tossed. So no Holy Grail from me. Drop the price and I'll add it to my very high priority list after the ohm problem gets straightened out.

Neo and I share the belief that a good cartomizer should be able to vaporize ~5 ml of eliquid without any problems; no burnt taste, no off flavors, no significant tightening of the draw and decreased vapor production. I've had too many Bloog cartos failing before the 5 ml mark to proclaim them #1.

[We also know that cartomizers are disposable and we don't expect miracles. ]

OT. Neo, my thoughts and sympathy go to you and all the good people of your beautiful state.

OMG! The exact same thing has happened to my new Bloog maxfusion carto!! If anyone knows what's goin on here, I'd love some advice/wisdom. TIA

I think they are running way too hot for the kr808 batteries. The kr8s are rated 3.7v, but they are capable of reaching 4.2v fresh off the charger, thus kr8 cartos need to be capable of withstanding the wattage generated at that voltage. For example, a 2.0Ω cartomizer on a 4.2v battery = 8.82 Watts. That's hot, folks, and enough to burn whatever it is that burns in those cartos. Simple math. I know that Leaford is aware of the problems with inconsistant ohms and is taking steps to correct the situation.

There is a reason all other kr808 cartos are 3.0+Ω. That seems to be the safe range for the kr808 batteries. In my experience, good design and good airflow through the carto are more important than 0.1 or 0.2Ω one way or the other, but I would like to see them closer to 3.0Ω, frankly. Which, BTW, was Leaford's original plan...

 

[Katya]

btw the clear e2 carto that came apart without provocation - i stuck the tube back on, refilled, and voila, no leakage

Tib, got the clear carto on Saturday, thank you so much, and I've been playing with it ever since. The first fill tasted off, so I (successfully) dissassembled it, cleaned the wicks with hot water, dried them, did a dry burn, put the thing back together. It's vaping fine, but nothing out of the ordinary. It doesn't like my thicker juices, so I switched to BWB 70/30 blends. Works better.

I'll keep you posted, but, honestly, it doesn't taste anything like the XL E2 carto that BR fixed up for me. Not even close. Not sure how he does it, but it's magic.

 

[tiburonfirst]

you're welcome, tweety!

lack of taste seems to be my biggest problem atm, especially since i'm stuck with ecopure due to my allergies. i've had some serious setbacks for the past 2 months and am not able to overcome them. very surprising, because i had been completely cigarette-free until the end of october.
maybe i can twist br's arm to post instructions on how to improve the taste, lol. better yet, i could offer some oreos or cheetos for a swap, on second thought, i better throw zelda in with my offer, lol!

btw bad is trying to find out for me if pg or something else was used in the assembly of the cartos i received. there definitely was something in them that made me react when i used them right out of the box.

 

[Katya]

Tib, BR has a big heart...

But honestly, those E2s drive me nuts. Even the good ones from BR get gunked up really fast and require constant cleaning, at least IMO. And I still get an occasional metallic/dry atty taste. And they don't work well with all my favorite juices. I'm going to take a break from them for now--until they are really fixed. I never got one that worked well out of the box. And they are high-maintenance, while cartomizers were supposed to be user friendly. When I want convenince and trouble-free chain vaping, I use my Boges and my 4081s (SmokeStik and Good Prophets). When I want really good taste, I reach for my eGo mega atties. They are easier to use than those E2s, at least for me. And they taste better.

My next cartomizer--the tankomizer from TW. God help us. They should start selling them any day now.

As for the setbacks, they do happen. I know. They happen to me all the time.

Have you considered smokeless (snus, dissolvables) for those tough times? They work. Let me know, I have quite a collection.

 

[Quick1]

I think they are running way too hot for the kr808 batteries. The kr8s are rated 3.7v, but they are capable of reaching 4.2v fresh off the charger,

info nit: Li-Ion battery technology. A Li-Ion cell has a nominal voltage of 3.7v. They are fully charged at 4.2v.
Surely they might have circuitry to cut off charging below 4.2v. Whether they can (initially) deliver 4.2v after being charged to it can also be a function of control circuitry and/or internal resistance.

 

[Katya]

info nit: Li-Ion battery technology. A Li-Ion cell has a nominal voltage of 3.7v. They are fully charged at 4.2v.
Surely they might have circuitry to cut off charging below 4.2v. Whether they can (initially) deliver 4.2v after being charged to it can also be a function of control circuitry and/or internal resistance.

Yeah...

So, darling, could you please be so kind and rephrase this? In English, preferably? Do they or don't they (deliver the 4.2v--initially--before they sag)?

 

[Quick1]

Yeah...

So, darling, could you please be so kind and rephrase this? In English, preferably? Do they or don't they (deliver the 4.2v--initially--before they sag)?

haha, the nit wasn't that. It was that you sort of called out the kr808s and said they were "rated" at 3.7 but were capable of 4.2 off the charger. That statement is completely true but what might be inferred is not.

It's not that some Li-Ions are "rated" at this voltage and some at that voltage. EVERY Li-Ion cell has a nominal voltage of 3.7v. It's just part of their chemistry/technology. EVERY Li-Ion cell is fully charged at 4.2v.

A Joye 510 battery might only deliver 3.1v under load right off the charger but it (at least the cell inside it -- I think they are Li-Ion chemistry) is still "rated" at 3.7v and fully charged at 4.2v. It may be that they only deliver 3.1v under load right off the charger but that would be because of one or more of the following:
- circuitry cuts off the charging before 4.2v
- circuitry regulates the effective voltage delivered
- higher than "normal" internal resistance
-(or they are some chemistry other than Li-Ion)

So, yes, the KR808s do deliver 4.2v (for all practical purposes) before they sag.
No, this doesn't have anything to do with, or change, the point you were making.

...it was a nit

 

[Katya]

Now look here, Mister! Scottbee's pictures of a kr808 battery under load (freshly charged). Looks like the working voltage is actually only 3.78v.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/joye-510/65055-battery-voltages-surprise.html#post962734

My bird brain is getting overheated.

Too much science for one morning. See you boys later. You can discuss this amongst yourselves for now.

 

[Quick1]

Understanding lithium-ion

 

[Katya]

Thanks, Quick. I had no idea that the stoichiometry is usually Li[Ni(1/3)Co(1/3)Mn(1/3)]O2. That explains everything.

 

[Neo]

Thanks, Quick. I had no idea that the stoichiometry is usually Li[Ni(1/3)Co(1/3)Mn(1/3)]O2. That explains everything.

HAH! Does it explain the ying and yang of the universe too? Ya'll are WAY over my head.

 

[Katya]

HAH! Does it explain the ying and yang of the universe too? Ya'll are WAY over my head.

haha, the nit wasn't that. It was that you sort of called out the kr808s and said they were "rated" at 3.7 but were capable of 4.2 off the charger. That statement is completely true but what might be inferred is not.

It's not that some Li-Ions are "rated" at this voltage and some at that voltage. EVERY Li-Ion cell has a nominal voltage of 3.7v. It's just part of their chemistry/technology. EVERY Li-Ion cell is fully charged at 4.2v.

A Joye 510 battery might only deliver 3.1v under load right off the charger but it (at least the cell inside it -- I think they are Li-Ion chemistry) is still "rated" at 3.7v and fully charged at 4.2v. It may be that they only deliver 3.1v under load right off the charger but that would be because of one or more of the following:
- circuitry cuts off the charging before 4.2v
- circuitry regulates the effective voltage delivered
- higher than "normal" internal resistance
-(or they are some chemistry other than Li-Ion)So, yes, the KR808s do deliver 4.2v (for all practical purposes) before they sag.
No, this doesn't have anything to do with, or change, the point you were making.

...it was a nit

Haha is right. Seriously, now, what frustrates me so much is that there is really no way for us, unsuspecting consumers, to figure what what the actual, delivered, under load voltage is. All the batteries that come with our starter kits are 'rated' 3.7v, but that tells us very little. Even the eGo/Riva batteries' actual under load resistance has not been established to my satisfaction. I've seen numbers ranging from 3.1 (3.073v in Scottbee's thread above) to as high as 3.4v reported by other testers. Dave's video (look at 5.35-6:24min into the vid) shows his Tornado (under load) reaching as high as 3.29v.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...reviews/140241-ohms-volts-some-surprises.html

I've read all kinds of wild speculations about the 'under load' voltage of the various VGOs, the Defender, the Elegante, the Pig (or whatever it's called), but nobody KNOWS for sure. I've asked every vendor carrying those devices and the standard answer is "3.7v--that's all I know." The minis and super minis and the kr808s--same thing. They are all rated 3.7v, but nobody knows what it really is when you attach your atty to your battery.

And it's not just my idle curiosity. The voltage is important. A 2.0Ω atty will generate a substantially greater amount of power (heat, whatever you want to call it) on a 4.2v device than on a 3.073v device; 8.22 Watts vs. 4.7 Watts, to be exact. Twice as much, as a matter of fact. The first is high enough to incinerate your carto in minutes, the latter will provide a lovely, coolish, safe vape.

Going back to our initial conversation about the Kr808 batteries and cartos, all I tried to understand was whether a kr808 battery is actually capable of delivering 4.2v under load. Or, as judging by Scottbee's experiment, it can only deliver ~3.8v under load, max.

Sagging voltage is another issue...

 

[Lightgeoduck]

Well I was fortunate enough to be given the opportunity to try something 'new' the bloog Maxxfussion cartomizer. So I guess I will contribute to this thread my initial impressions on these guys and maybe go further in detail (via video) at a later date.

Cartomizer: 11mg-Red pre-fill 2.4ohm measured (calibrated fluke 85II)
Device: original GGslim 3.7v 10440 battery


Vape: I feel it vapes pretty well and would have to say a couple steps above a 'traditional' vertical coil filler type cartomizer. The bloog is has a horizontal coil which is a plus in my book.

Refilling: easy to do, and the filler soaks the juice right up. The soft mouth cap has a 'tapered' hole (can't think of the term but looks the same as a drip tip) which I am to assume it is for refilling, but that method is too slow IMO because if you drip too quick it tended to seep out the bottom connector really quick. That isn't a problem though because it pops out real easily and filling with the carto tilted is the better method IMO (and the filler does soak up rather well, for now at least)

The filler seems to come out very easily with out damaging the structure, and quasi-easy to put back in after a cleaning (haven't bothered cleaning the filler though) I also plan on (after I feel the filler is spent) removing it completely and trying it as a cheap atty like I do with my old Kr8s.

The basic design of a horizontal bottom coil in a cartomiser has always been the best way to get all of the juice (IMO) like the GreenCigs (though hard to refill) and the egoMega carto/ GenJoye 510 carto.... (filling isn't necessarily popular to the masses)

I am not sure of the other models that have this basic design (maybe K or BR could provide me with post numbers of the pics of the similar models, if they are so kind )

As a consumer, I am not really fond of only being able to get a piece of vaping hardware from only one source (consumables not devices) and IMO the design isn't too innovating that it couldn't be come the "standard-traditional" like we already have for the 'verticals' ..


(Damn I wrote alot (for me) this could have been put to video ) anyway

LGD

 

[Katya]

I am not sure of the other models that have this basic design (maybe K or BR could provide me with post numbers of the pics of the similar models, if they are so kind )

LGD

Thanks for the review, LGD.

Here's the list of cartos with the horizontal coil (and variations).

-All SLB cartomizers (510). They are widely available (LiteCig, VaporKings) and easily recognizable by their brass colored threads. IkenVape has his own 'tweaked' line of horizontals. I used to like them alot at the beginning, before the manufacturers started overstuffing them with filler and making them really hard to vape and easy to burn. Isaac just put his entire Platinum V2 line on sale ($1.00) because the draw is very hard (but the filler is nice and loose). If you enlarge the two little airflow holes in the threads, they work much better.

-Most 4081 cartos, most notably SmokeStik and Trueman (the latter no longer recommended by us due to terrible QC problems). Good Prophets used to carry horizontal 4081s but he switched to verticals.

-Nova (601)

-Bloog kr808s

-Genuine Joyetech 510 cartomizers

-Mega eGo cartomizers

 

[Lightgeoduck]

Thanks Kat.. that goes to show that I can't keep up with everything these days .... good thing I can tinker or I will be in a world of hurt .... I just make my sudo-ego-tank the other day... with a egocone atty (bridgeless) cartomizer rubber cap (soon to try with bloogs softy) blank carto and wick... the idea seems promising


LGD

 

[zelda]

Very busy shoveling 2 feet of snow today but but thought I'd post this link Gaintomizer Royalsmokers

I haven't read the whole description yet but they supposedly hold 5ml of ejuice.

 

[Scottbee]

Very busy shoveling 2 feet of snow today.......

In heels and a "string"???

 

[br5495]

............................. I also plan on (after I feel the filler is spent) removing it completely and trying it as a cheap atty like I do with my old Kr8s.

I am not sure of the other models that have this basic design (maybe K or BR could provide me with post numbers of the pics of the similar models, if they are so kind )

LGD, this thing is different inside than any I have seen. The atty is in the base fitting and will probably be more prone to leaking if it is dripped like the old KR8's. I haven't tried it that way, so I may be telling you a lie.

If you can make head or tails of my photos, maybe you can figure out how it works.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-etc-filler-type-cartos-344.html#post2398078

Also, I just posted some recent results of one that I am testing at this time. So far, I have not been able to burn the filler in it.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...gative-result-still-result-7.html#post2464096