Buying ingredients around town?

[f1vefour]

Thanks for the update.

How is the vapor production compared to straight PG and VG?

 

[18350]

i dont use any pg.
hate the taste.
as for the vapor/cloud production i cant tell a difference between optim and standard vg.
the main diff is in the taste and lacking of a slight cross between th and nic kick peppery warm burn on exhale i find in standard vg.
hope that makes any kind of sense....

 

[vapnmuse]

even at $100 per gallon that's way cheaper than pre made juice. I just purchased 3 30 ml bottles for $63 after tax. So 90ml of vg juice for $63! If we do the math that equates to saving a shipload of cash on super premium diy juice. I am a zero nic vaper so that's one less thing I have to pay for.
How can us mere mortals get a gal of dow optim?
...........or is it classified

 

[vapnmuse]

subscribing to this thread

 

[f1vefour]

I think there should be a line of juice using this, I don't like VG and want the purity of Optim.

I know someone like Mount Baker Vapor has the buying power to use Optim and still be competitively priced.

 

[DeadbeatJeff]

Looks like this is going to be harder than I thought. Gathering ingredients, I mean. What is the lowest suitable percentage of VG that should be used? I found a local pharmacy that sells it in 99.5% purity. I guess the other .5% is contaminants. But would that level of purity be safe?

the 99.5% stuff is fine. the other .5% is water, not "contaminants", which will only be present in trace amounts in anything USP. I'm no expert... though I've been reading A LOT the past few weeks... but the PG/VG I just picked up from MyFreedomSmokes says "pharmaceutical grade" on it.

 

[f1vefour]

It's not purity from contaminates I care about, I'm looking for purity in flavor with increased vapor production. This is what Optim brings to the table.

 

[Risu]

I'm not sure if this has been said yet, but some small bottles of flavoring (limited selection) can be found in the candy concocting section at JoAnn Fabrics. You can also find pure VG in the first aid section of Walmart.

 

[AmandaD]

I was just about to decide whether to go to Joann's or Michaels - I want a couple of the Lorann flavorings, but the stores are in different directions....LOL

 

[f1vefour]

I haven't had much luck with LorAnn flavorings since so many are oil based or have artificial colorings added...but some are safe to use.

 

[18350]

the 99.5% stuff is fine. the other .5% is water, not "contaminants", which will only be present in trace amounts in anything USP. I'm no expert... though I've been reading A LOT the past few weeks... but the PG/VG I just picked up from MyFreedomSmokes says "pharmaceutical grade" on it.

my understanding was that if i have a glass of 99.5 vg its not the .5 i am worried about.
this may be atmospheric water or something else.
the concern is the purity and chemical variance allowed to cumulatively comprise the 99.5 of vg.

as a crude example, if i have a meatloaf for dinner, it is 100% food grade materials.
so technically the turd tomorrow is 100% food grade materials.
lunch anyone?

if i have a bottle that is labeled water.
by appearance it is 100% water.
but is it 100% h2o in the bottle or a mix of all sorts of stuff and h2o?
my ec/tds says it is at 250ppm.
so while it may be 100% water, it is not 100% h2o.

semantics?
yes.
gospel by the letter truth?
not so much.

how was the vg processed?
what are the allowable contaminant tolerances that make up 99.5% vg?
this is where optim shines.
it is 99.7 at the molecular level not cumulative.

did that track at all for anyone not in my head?

 

[ronchinoy]

did they list what the chemical composition was for the Dow VG?.
As a starting point to tracking down the best VG to use. I think this is where one should start no ?.

And just because dow says its safe. Im not biting.

Everything I have read about Synthetic VG says its risky. Much rather trust stuff that humans have been using for thousands of years i.e. plant based.

Extract form an article I'm reading.
=========
Synthetic glycerin has received some publicity as being a potential health hazard, and many consumers prefer to avoid it. It is typically produced from the starting material epichlorohydrin, which is a toxic chemical that is classified as a probable carcinogen. Of concern is the presence of trace remnants of epichlorohydrin or another potentially carcinogenic contaminant such as 1,4 dioxane. So, while synthetic glycerin provides the same benefits to your hair as glycerin derived naturally, there may be sufficient risks associated with it to warrant choosing only vegetable or animal-derived glycerin.
=========
Just one example. And he is talking about using it on hair. Not even inhaling.
Need to study the subject some more.

 

[Traver]

did they list what the chemical composition was for the Dow VG?.
As a starting point to tracking down the best VG to use. I think this is where one should start no ?.

And just because dow says its safe. Im not biting.

Everything I have read about Synthetic VG says its risky. Much rather trust stuff that humans have been using for thousands of years i.e. plant based.

Extract form an article I'm reading.
=========
Synthetic glycerin has received some publicity as being a potential health hazard, and many consumers prefer to avoid it. It is typically produced from the starting material epichlorohydrin, which is a toxic chemical that is classified as a probable carcinogen. Of concern is the presence of trace remnants of epichlorohydrin or another potentially carcinogenic contaminant such as 1,4 dioxane. So, while synthetic glycerin provides the same benefits to your hair as glycerin derived naturally, there may be sufficient risks associated with it to warrant choosing only vegetable or animal-derived glycerin.
=========
Just one example. And he is talking about using it on hair. Not even inhaling.
Need to study the subject some more.

Can we have some links.

I would never take Dow's word on anything.

If you are going to research this you should research both types of glycerin and compare the two for safety. Vegetable glycerin even if it is USP has contaminants. You may be surprised at the contaminants allowed in USP glycerin.

 

[Geoffrey White]

After reading through this thread, it's my understanding that the only verified source of nearly pure (minimum 99.7%) glycerin is Dow Optim, but that 2 other sources (Essentials Depot and ChemWorld) make similar claims, which are currently unverified.

Is this correct, or am I misunderstanding?

 

[CMD-Ky]

I like towns where the government controls who can do business; it frees me from making any hard decisions for my self. Government knows best, just give me my number and tell me where to go. What a great life! Oh, and where is that Kardashian show, anyway?

I like those towns where they won't give walmart the necessary building permits, cause it changes the town and kills all the small businesses.

 

[CMD-Ky]

You spin your wheels when disagreeing with those who think government control is the answer, the mind is dying and its life support is decision by government.

 

[Geoffrey White]

A bit of a derailment of the topic, eh CMD-Ky?

 

[zoiDman]

I think there is a Lot of Confusion about the Percentage Number on a Bottle of VG and the word "Purity".

If a Bottle of VG is Labeled as being 99.7%, what they are telling you is that the VG is 99.7% Anhydrous. Or in simple terms, 99.7% Free of Water.

Anhydrous - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This Does Not make Any Statement about the VG being Free of Contaminates. Only that it is 99.7% Free of Water. So if the word "Purity" or "Pure" is going to be used to Imply Free of Contaminates, saying that a VG is 99.7% Pure is Incorrect.

Where the "Purity" (Free from Contaminates) comes from is the Grade of the VG.

There are basically Two Grades of VG that are sold to Consumers. Food Grade and USP Grade. There is also Technical Grades of VG. But these are Not Generally used for Human or Animal Consumption.

Here is a Brief Overview of USP Grade VG

What does the USP mean?

The abbreviation USP stands for United States Pharmacopeia, a document first published in 1820 by the Medical Society of New York State. Recognized as official by Congress in 1848, this document was used as a standard reference by physicians for prescribing medicines.

Today, the USP includes chemical descriptions, identifying tests, and purity tests, primarily for active ingredients. All materials listed in the USP are considered drugs by law and subject to all the U.S. Food & Drug Administration requirements pertaining to drugs. Labeling a product or a substance as USP implies that it conforms to all the legal requirements of the FDA and that it was produced in accordance with the principles outlined in FDA’s Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP).

What differentiates USP and food-grade glycerin from technical grade glycerin?

Glycerin USP is closely regulated by the FDA in all aspects of manufacturing, testing, inspection, distribution, and warehousing. Glycerin USP is subject to FDA rules requiring registration and listing, and glycerin FCC as well as USP are also subject to Good Manufacturing Practices, a series of appropriate procedures prescribed by FDA, while the technical grade is not under such regulatory control.FDA requires all domestic owners or operators of all establishments that manufacture or process glycerin USP to register and list, unless specifically exempted(21CFR §207.20). For glycerin USP of foreign origin, the foreign manufacturer and the importer share the responsibility of FDA compliance (21CFR§207.4). The Agency’s definition of "manufacturer" includes the original producer as well as re-packagers and/or distributors(21CFR§207.4). Additional information on drug registration and listing instructions is available from FDA at http:/www.fda.gov/cder/drls/introduc.htm#top. Further, under FDA regulations, the quality and purity of USP and FCC glycerin products must be supported by systematic and complete record keeping on the part of the manufacturer. For example, every shipment of USP and FCC glycerin must be referenced to a lot number, which permits tracing back to the plant in which the product was produced. These requirements are designed to assure a level of product integrity that cannot be achieved strictly by reliance only on physical and chemical testing.

Technical grades of glycerin, on the other hand, are not subject to the same FDA regulatory oversight. Although produced by similar processes, the technical grades of glycerin do not have to comply with USP and FCC requirements or with FDA regulations. This quality grade of glycerin must conform only to the specifications and terms agreed upon in the transaction between buyer and seller.

https://buyglycerinusp.com/

So when someone goes to buy VG to put in an e-Liquid, the Important thing is the USP Grade Certification. And Not the Anhydrous Percentage of the VG.

BTW - Buying USP Grade VG that is 99.7% Anhydrous has No Real Advantages for DIY as say buying USP Grade VG that is 99.5% or 99.3%

 

[Geoffrey White]

Are you implying that, if I were to find a Certificate of Analysis for 99.7% glycerin, 99.5% glycerin, and 99% glycerin, the remaining respective 0.3%, 0.5%, and 1% would be water?

 

[zoiDman]

Are you implying that, if I were to find a Certificate of Analysis for 99.7% glycerin, 99.5% glycerin, and 99% glycerin, the remaining respective 0.3%, 0.5%, and 1% would be water?

I believe that the USP Standard guidelines what the Remaining Percentage can be. And in the Case of VG, I believe that it Is Water.