California AG's office going after e-cigarette companies

[Placebo Effect]

As discussed on this podcast starting at about 14 minutes.

From what I can gather, Firebrand E-Cigarettes, and possibly other companies, received a letter from the California AG's office claiming that they are violating the California law banning sales to minors by not using genuine age verification software and selling flavors. The letter apparently claimed they are marketing to minors.

Under a 'compromise' with the AG's office, as of February 16th, 2012, Firebrand E-Cigarettes can no longer sell non-tobacco or non-menthol flavored liquid to California residents. In 90 days, they will no longer be allowed to sell flavors at all.

Firebrand was not actually violating California law, but compromised because they cannot afford the legal fees.

According to the podcast, Firebrand is now using an age verification software called IDology that is also used by wine sellers.

 

[asti]

Well, we just can't sit around and watch this happen... Firebrand needs to find help ASAP

 

[StotheK]

Well, we just can't sit around and watch this happen... Firebrand needs to find help ASAP

Firebrand has elected to capitulate rather than rack up (considerable) legal fees to fight it. There's a thread around here somewhere I found when trying to dig up information on this story. In that one from last month Greensmoke apparently has elected to stop selling flavors in CA rather than fight as well.

I'm guessing this will keep happening until the AG goes after someone like Johnson Creek who has a vested interest in fighting back and some resources to do so.

 

[asti]

Well I dont know anything about greensmoke, but there are about 30 -35 vendors in CA they need to together and hire legal aid
I know full well CA is a pita as a state itself, but a cascade effect will be harder to stop once its moving

 

[Vocalek]

Placebo:

Can you find the exact law that the AG is enforcing? I have a sneaking suspicion that there is nothing about flavors in the law. He may be trying to take the consent agreements signed by SE & njoy and enforce the terms as though they were a law passed by the legislature and signed into effect by the governor.

 

[CharlyB]

As discussed on this podcast starting at about 14 minutes.

From what I can gather, Firebrand E-Cigarettes, and possibly other companies, received a letter from the California AG's office claiming that they are violating the California law banning sales to minors by not using genuine age verification software and selling flavors. The letter apparently claimed they are marketing to minors.

Under a 'compromise' with the AG's office, as of February 16th, 2012, Firebrand E-Cigarettes can no longer sell non-tobacco or non-menthol flavored liquid to California residents. In 90 days, they will no longer be allowed to sell flavors at all.

Firebrand was not actually violating California law, but compromised because they cannot afford the legal fees.

According to the podcast, Firebrand is now using an age verification software called IDology that is also used by wine sellers.

As if California doesn't have enough other issues to worry about! *rolls eyes*

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

As if California doesn't have enough other issues to worry about! *rolls eyes*

This was exactly what I was thinking, how many ways can they find to run more business out of the state so they can go bankrupt quicker.

The only problem is what they do has a bad habit of infecting the rest of us.

ETA Oh yea, I forgot For.The.Children.

 

[TennDave]

I hope the vendors can sell the flavors separately with instructions on how to add them once the package gets there- seems like it would be a pain but many of us don't want the tobacco/menthol flavors- one reason we vape and don't smoke.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Why is this bad news .. ?? Should age verification not be required .. ?? When a youtube video of minors using a PV surfaces, t's always a call to arms around here to vote it down .. yet age verification for an on-line purchase being a requirement is not a good thing .. ?? I guess I don't get it ..

 

[kumquat]

Uncle Willie, it's bad news because California is so broke that L.A. has made it illegal to dig sand castle moats and toss a frisbee on the beach so that they can charge individuals five hundred bucks per infraction. They've also nearly tripled the driving violation fees. Legislation of this sort indicates they want money from the e-cig market and will figure out a way to take it.

 

[TennDave]

No, the age verification is good and essential- by having to use a credit card, this "almost" is the verification....but maybe not enough.

However, not allowing other than tobacco/menthol flavors over-steps the bounds of the enforcement agency in my opinion, and it appears to to others here- I guess we're still trying to get clarification on this one. It may take a court case to make them stop what they're doing.

 

[calsax]

<rant> As a California resident, I deeply resent the AG targeting something like this. We are facing severe fiscal problems, and essential services are being cut to the bone and beyond, yet we can assign resources to hassle businessmen, just because they look like a possible source of additional funding? There is a serious problem here, and it is nothing new.

I will be writing my representatives to question why we are squandering our extremely limited resources on this type of activity, while serious problems are left unanswered. I encourage other Californians to do the same. Ultimately, it probably won't matter. We are not a large enough group to overpower the forces that are truly important to our state government, those who have the money to provide... Am I a little jaded? No, I just see it for what it is. Until there is massive overhaul of the California State Government, we will continue to be taxed and penalized in every way possible to support the massive, ever-hungry money pit that is Sacramento. <end rant>

 

[StotheK]

Why is this bad news .. ?? Should age verification not be required .. ?? When a youtube video of minors using a PV surfaces, t's always a call to arms around here to vote it down .. yet age verification for an on-line purchase being a requirement is not a good thing .. ?? I guess I don't get it ..

In the case with Firebrand, the AG not only required additional age verification measures (they already had some, but weren't robust enough), but they were ordered to not sell flavors beyond tobacco or menthol, they aren't even allowed to sell cigar flavored e-liquid. Furthermore, they are required within 90 days to stop selling flavors to consumers OUTSIDE of California as well

That's what makes this a big deal

 

[kumquat]

<rant> Until there is massive overhaul of the California State Government, we will continue to be taxed and penalized in every way possible to support the massive, ever-hungry money pit that is Sacramento. <end rant>

They need to be audited to hell and back.

 

[rothenbj]

"Why is this bad news .. ?? Should age verification not be required .. ??"

Absolutely there should be age verification on SmokefreE Cigarettes. Let the kids keep smoking the cheap real ones until they're old enough to want to quit. They'll help the economy and keep the money coming in for the ANTZ. With the cost of cigarettes going up as fast as they are, I'm sure the local illegal drug dealers are considering getting into the contraband cigarette market to feed the demand. They're not concerned about the AG's age verification demands.

 

[DC2]

Why is this bad news .. ?? Should age verification not be required .. ?? When a youtube video of minors using a PV surfaces, t's always a call to arms around here to vote it down .. yet age verification for an on-line purchase being a requirement is not a good thing .. ?? I guess I don't get it ..

That's what you took away from the posts in this thread?

 

[PVPuff&Stuff]

Placebo:

Can you find the exact law that the AG is enforcing? I have a sneaking suspicion that there is nothing about flavors in the law. He may be trying to take the consent agreements signed by SE & NJOY and enforce the terms as though they were a law passed by the legislature and signed into effect by the governor.

Vocalek, there were 2 companies last year that both agreed to the same conditions. I believe one of them was down in San Diego, not sure where the second was. Google should find them, if memory serves me....they are using the same laws that banned flavored cigarettes in the state.

 

[mwa102464]

Just my own views on this but it just goes to show that the politicians that are head of each individual state as well the ones at federal levels are doing the worst jobs ever in the United State history being this broke. There budgeting money for all there crazy bridges to No where then once they get caught and cant balance there budgets they come after the small guys trying to make up there losses, it's a real joke and they all should be fired and the house needs a cleansing and Govt shrunken down.

If you want to know where the monies going just look at some of the things there spending budget has allocated money for, from as ridiculous to =

#1 A total of $3 million has been granted to researchers at the University of California at Irvine so that they can play video games such as World of Warcraft. The goal of this "video game research" is reportedly to study how "emerging forms of communication, including multiplayer computer games and online virtual worlds such as World of Warcraft and Second Life can help organizations collaborate and compete more effectively in the global marketplace."

And if you want to see the top 20 most wasteful spending allocations just look at this =

Government Waste: 20 Of The Craziest Things That The U.S. Government Is Spending Money On


The problem is that enough Americans just arent standing up and paying attention to what there getting away with, but the times a coming soon enough changes are imminent.

 

[Uncle Willie]

That's what you took away from the posts in this thread?

What I took away from the thread was what the OP posted ..

"From what I can gather, Firebrand E-Cigarettes, and possibly other companies, received a letter from the California AG's office claiming that they are violating the California law banning sales to minors by not using genuine age verification software and selling flavors. The letter apparently claimed they are marketing to minors.
"

 

[Uncle Willie]

"Why is this bad news .. ?? Should age verification not be required .. ??"

Absolutely there should be age verification on SmokefreE Cigarettes. Let the kids keep smoking the cheap real ones until they're old enough to want to quit. They'll help the economy and keep the money coming in for the ANTZ. With the cost of cigarettes going up as fast as they are, I'm sure the local illegal drug dealers are considering getting into the contraband cigarette market to feed the demand. They're not concerned about the AG's age verification demands.

Don't quite understand your post .. in Illinois, as in most States, folks buying "real ones" are required to provide proof of age if they appear, at least in Illinois, under the age of 30 .. what's that got to do with ANTZ, and drug dealers .. ??

Like I said, age verification is a good thing ..