California AG's office going after e-cigarette companies

[Bill Godshall]

From what I've heard at
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ecigadvanced/2012/02/17/news-and-chat-with-firebrand-and-highbrow-vapor
and from what I've read on this thread, its pretty clear to me that the CA AG is harrassing and intimidating Firebrand and perhaps other e-cigarette vendors in CA, and is deceiving Firebrand and perhaps other vendors about the laws in CA.

No CA law bans the sale of e-cigarette flavorings, and the AG appears to be abusing her legal authority by ordering companies to stop selling flavorings.

There is also no CA law that requires online e-cigarette vendors (or online tobacco vendors) to have age restricted software.

But I would strongly urge all Internet e-cigarette vendors to purchase/install age restricted software, as State AG's can hire youths to conduct online stings to entrap vendors, and then the AG can legally prosecute vendors who they catch selling e-cigs to youth.

 

[Uncle Willie]

There is, the TVECA. Unfortunately for consumers, it is my understanding they support banning flavors, and possibly also not selling e-liquid at all (pre-filled cartos only).

Have to admit I was not aware .. checked the website .. no many members, yet .. however, they do list these points as member benefits ..

Legal representation to preserve the industry

Assistance with soon to be implemented local and national rules and regulations

Members are provided discounts and accelerated custom services from TVECA Preferred Vendors

Memberships to other associations that are affiliated with the TVECA

Assistance with legal and regulatory issues in your area

Discounts on product testing

 

[Bill Godshall]

It would be appreciated if any e-cigarette vendor who has received this type of letter from the CA AG's office, please post it here, and/or please send it to me at smokefree@compuserve.com

Feel free to remove any contact information if you choose to remain anonymous.

 

[Uncle Willie]

From what I've heard at
News and Chat with Firebrand and Highbrow Vapor 02/16 by ecigadvanced | Blog Talk Radio
and from what I've read on this thread, its pretty clear to me that the CA AG is harrassing and intimidating Firebrand and perhaps other e-cigarette vendors in CA, and is deceiving Firebrand and perhaps other vendors about the laws in CA.

No CA law bans the sale of e-cigarette flavorings, and the AG appears to be abusing her legal authority by ordering companies to stop selling flavorings.

There is also no CA law that requires online e-cigarette vendors (or online tobacco vendors) to have age restricted software.

But I would strongly urge all Internet e-cigarette vendors to purchase/install age restricted software, as State AG's can hire youths to conduct online stings to entrap vendors, and then the AG can legally prosecute vendors who they catch selling e-cigs to youth.

An unenforcable letter statement on liquids that are clearly not banned requires a response in certified letter form requesting the statute info (which apparently does not exist) .. in addition, there has to be some action that caused the letter in the first place .. any State AG for the most part, on issues of this type, investigates complaints and then follows up .. IOW, the issue is usually brought to their attention by an outside source ..

 

[Bill Godshall]

I'm not aware that TVECA has done anything to help expose, oppose or amend any state or local laws that would excessively restrict the sale or use of e-cigarettes.

But I'll continue urging TVECA (and everyone else in the vaping community) to do so.

The most effective way e-cigarette vendors can help defeat unwarranted e-cigarette legislation is to forward CASAA Call To Actions to their customers who live in affected jurisdictions.

 

[TennDave]

Okay another question...
We covered age verification (all agree it's needed in some form, I believe)
We covered flavors (all here agree it's not the law but a couple of large companies have succumbed to the pressures and is not selling flavors and it could be indicated by TVECA that this is part of what they mean by "assistance with soon to be local and national rules and regulations."...)

What about selling to others out-of-state- apparently the AG is threatening these shops that this must cease. Is that also the law in Cali or are they over-stepping their authority here as well?

 

[Natalia]

From SmokeTip Customer's HelpDesk announcements:

ATTN:: California Residents

Customer Service
posted this on June 22, 2011 14:59

WE CANNOT SHIP FLAVORS TO YOUR STATE. YOU CAN ORDER REGULAR, COWBOY & MENTHOL.

IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS PLEASE VISIT Contact Us | State of California - Department of Justice - Kamala D. Harris Attorney General OR CALL (800) 952-5225.

 

[DC2]

Their call center is closed, so I will be calling again tomorrow.

I think this might be a great time to coordinate a huge ashtray mailing.
I'll post more once I speak with them tomorrow.


EDIT: Now that I think about it, maybe we should all mail something that is flavored, but for adults.
EDIT: Maybe a small shot of flavored vodka?
EDIT: A bottle of couph syrup?

 

[MattZuke]

EDIT: Now that I think about it, maybe we should all mail something that is flavored, but for adults.
EDIT: Maybe a small shot of flavored vodka?
EDIT: A bottle of couph syrup?

Or cherry flavored tobacco?
Or apple flavored tobacco?
Amaretto, apricot, raspberry, mocha, peaches and cream, peanut butter, or sweet mother of zod see this link

Briar Patch - premium cigars, pipes, pipe tobacco and accessories

 

[Vocalek]

The excuse for banning flavors is that e-cigarettes will addict children. Research does not support that theory.

Abuse potential

Vansickel et al. explored the question of whether use of an e-cigarette would lead to physical and/or psychological dependence. No adverse events were observed. Although a sufficient level of nicotine can be delivered to alleviate withdrawal symptoms in smokers, the slower rate of nicotine delivery makes it appear that e-cigarettes have a lower potential for abuse than traditional tobacco cigarettes.

Vansickel AR, Weaver MF, Eissenberg T. Clinical laboratory assessment of the abuse liability of an electronic cigarette. Addiction. 2012 Jan 9. Clinical laboratory assessment of the abuse liabil... [Addiction. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

 

[TennDave]

You can turn in the state's AG here! (FALSE CLAIMS DEPT)
False Claims Unit | State of California - Department of Justice - Kamala D. Harris Attorney General

 

[DC2]

You can turn in the state's AG here! (FALSE CLAIMS DEPT)
False Claims Unit | State of California - Department of Justice - Kamala D. Harris Attorney General

That's a fantastic idea!


That's almost better than sending ashtrays.

 

[TennDave]

That's a fantastic idea!


That's almost better than sending ashtrays.

Great idea but they would only trash the email- seems there would be a way to send a Carbon Copy to someone else too- maybe the Governor? Haha... Send him an ashtray too and a couple of bottle s of "flavored" vodka, sent from an "out-of-state" vendor! Haha....or some wine from some remote- non-California location... OH, and a note- "I know you'll love the tobacco hints in this great red wine!!" Haha....

 

[DC2]

Their call center is closed, so I will be calling again tomorrow.

So I called and asked what the legal justification is for the attack on ecig flavors.
They tell me the legal folks don't talk directly to the public, and I have to file a complaint of some kind or something.

These are the three methods for doing so...

1) Send a fax to the Public Inquiry Unit at (916) 323-5341
2) Use their website (ag.ca.gov) and use the "File a Complaint" then choose "General Questions or Comments"
3) Send a letter to the following address:

Office of the Attorney General
Public Inquiry Unit
PO Box 944255
Sacremento, CA 94244

 

[superfrog]

So I called and asked what the legal justification is for the attack on ecig flavors.
They tell me the legal folks don't talk directly to the public, and I have to file a complaint of some kind or something.

These are the three methods for doing so...

1) Send a fax to the Public Inquiry Unit at (916) 323-5341
2) Use their website (ag.ca.gov) and use the "File a Complaint" then choose "General Questions or Comments"
3) Send a letter to the following address:

Office of the Attorney General
Public Inquiry Unit
PO Box 944255
Sacremento, CA 94244

Hmmm... Option 3 would work and to make it all official like add "Copy to:" at the bottom of the letter. Then list who you might send a copy to, like the govoner, state justice, government watch dog org (and so on). Even if you don't send copies out, might make them sweat.

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk

 

[TennDave]

Yeah, send a copy of your complaint the the CA Ashtray General

 

[Vocalek]

You folks realize of course, that the current governor, Jerry Brown, was the CA Attorney General who drew up the consent agreements that NJOY and Smoking Everywhere signed, agreeing to stop marketing any flavors other than tobacco and menthol. I don't think he would be sympathetic to the cause.

He didn't think he was doing anything wrong, so why would he fault the current AG from following in his footsteps?

On second thought, maybe he would be surprised that so many grownups attest to the fact that they did not outgrow their taste buds.

 

[Uma]

They're fighting to keep the smoke taxes rolling in. The number one testimony heard from vapers around the world is "once i found the right flavor for me regular cigs tasted awful and became easy to be rid of." The number 2 testimony is "trying out a new flavor keeps my passion and interest up." The number 3 testimony is: "the higher volt mod really helped me to cut back on my nicotine strength". ____space___ they are attacking flavors and mods both. Surprised? ___space--- fact is their argument is a vain attempt to keep us off ecigs and on real cigs. Kids wont buy smokes anymore. A whole new generation of taxpayers is scaring the bajeebies out of our tax based country. Hawaii is at least being honest in trying to save the political dinner parties. The others use the "kids" to fight their battles. Where are the journalists?

 

[Uma]

California always threatens kids. Last month they threatened to stop all school bus transportaion. We rallied. They moved the date from presidents week to next school year. They preach that ecigs are sinful and dangerous in order to rile parents up into a tax rally. "Save our busses!!! Tax those ecigs!!! Raise tobacco and alcohol taxes!!!" ---space-- The politics are habitual and transparent . We are so lucky to have tremendous fighters on our side. Thank you Bill, Elaine, Michael and everyone who is fighting this ghastly war.

 

[DC2]

So I called and asked what the legal justification is for the attack on ecig flavors.
They tell me the legal folks don't talk directly to the public, and I have to file a complaint of some kind or something.

These are the three methods for doing so...

1) Send a fax to the Public Inquiry Unit at (916) 323-5341
2) Use their website (ag.ca.gov) and use the "File a Complaint" then choose "General Questions or Comments"
3) Send a letter to the following address:

Office of the Attorney General
Public Inquiry Unit
PO Box 944255
Sacremento, CA 94244

So here was my inquiry on 2/24/12 using option (2) above...

In the past the Attorney General's office got Smoking Everywhere and NJoy to agree to eliminate flavors from their electronic cigarettes. Now it appears they have done the same thing to Firebrand electronic cigarettes. My question is what law or laws are being enforced with these actions? Or are these actions arbitrary?

And here is the response I finally received today...

I am responding to your comment or question you posted online on the website of the Attorney General of California. You asked what laws California is enforcing by asking various electronic cigarette companies to stop selling flavored electronic cigarette products. The answer is that Ca Health & Safety Code prohibits the sales of electronic cigarettes to minors. We believe that flavored electronic cigarette products (other than tobacco or menthol) are designed to appeal to youth and are likely used as marketing devices to increase sales to minors in violation of the statute. We do not believe that the actions by the office to discourage the use and promotion of child-like flavors are arbitrary. Rather we believe that we are protecting the public health and safety of our young residents.

I hope that this answers your question.

Sincerely yours, Jeanne Finberg

Jeanne Finberg
Deputy Attorney General
California Department of Justice
Office of Attorney General
Tobacco Litigation and Enforcement Section
1515 Clay Street, Suite 2100
P.O. Box 70550
Oakland, CA 94612

510 622-2147
510 622-2121(fax)
Jeanne.Finberg@doj.ca.gov

God I wish I didn't live 6 hours from these .......
Makes me want to puke.

But there is a phone number, and I'll be using it.
We'll see how that goes....