I agree, most likely it will drop a bunch. If those people wanting to switch make their way to ECF, we can help them figure out how to still have those types of eliquids. But...that means they've got to know that ECF even exists. From my own experiences talking with people locally, the majority of vapers and those interested in learning about vaping, don't know about it at all unfortunately.
California Statewide Flavor Ban?
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I agree, most likely it will drop a bunch. If those people wanting to switch make their way to ECF, we can help them figure out how to still have those types of eliquids. But...that means they've got to know that ECF even exists. From my own experiences talking with people locally, the majority of vapers and those interested in learning about vaping, don't know about it at all unfortunately.
I have no idea what it's like to be a smoker wanting to try vaping today. When I was in that position I had never met a vaper, never seen it dissed on the TV, never looked for it on the internet. Just spotted it at a kiosk in the mall.
Someone in that position today presumably knows a lot more. They probably know people who have tried it. If there is a total ban on liquids maybe information about online resources will spread. It would still be more work though. Mixing was quite intimidating for me even after already being a vaper and being on ECF for several months.
For a current vaper losing their access to flavors it might not be too difficult. For a smoker thinking of quitting, who has never tried flavored juice, it would be a lot harder.
I see it as the opposite. Most people looking to switch seem to start with tobacco flavors anyway in a misguided attempt to replace the cigarette flavor as well as the cigarette. They switch to other flavors once they realize tobacco flavors do not taste like smoke. Meanwhile long time vapers that have found their "all day vape" flavor will really be missing that and it will be really hard going back to a craptastic tobacco flavor. You can't miss something you never had.
I can state unequivocally that my wife would return to smoking without flavors. Quitting completely is just not going to happen and she can't stand tobacco flavors. Lucky for her, I DIY everything she vapes anyway, so we are covered.
I was just reading where Hawaii might be the first state. Ca better get on the ball if they want to be the first, as they are always wanting to do. 
Long time vapers should be aware of the garbage that's been going on with the FDA for several years, and now specifically with states like California, etc. They should also know by now that there's such a thing as DIY eliquids. Maybe in the past they weren't interested in it, because thousands of flavored eliquids were always readily available. I understand that! But the ____ is about to hit the fan, and there will be more of it slung before all is said and done! IMO, if they're still not interested in learning about/attempting even basic DIY (like with "one shot concentrates")...so they won't have only tobacco eliquids to choose from...that's their choice. Their only option isn't "going back to a craptastic tobacco flavor"!
Imo (for what that is worth), folks who really want to quit smoking will. They will research and figure it out. A lot of people I have tried to help over the years made excuses and went back to smoking even when resources were available. I figured out that some were just not ready or wanting to quit smoking. I know I won't go back, even if I had to use unflavored, no nic but that is just me.
Then there are those who will pay the hefty prices/taxes that are surely coming. They don't want to mess with mixing or learning about it and that is ok but I will never give the gov another dime of my money to advance their killing people just for dollars. Other than the taxes I have to pay for supples that is all I am willing to pay.
Just want to add that when the deeming regs were first announced, I was on my soapbox with family, friends and anyone who would listen. I tried to get them involved in advocacy, CAASA, etc and most just smiled and rolled their eyes like I was a crazy old lady. I quickly figured out it just wasn't important to some people. I guess based on my experience, I am not too concerned about the effect on the general public as harsh as that sounds. They have options and they choose to ignore the idiotic government regulations and lies.
Then there are those who will pay the hefty prices/taxes that are surely coming. They don't want to mess with mixing or learning about it and that is ok but I will never give the gov another dime of my money to advance their killing people just for dollars. Other than the taxes I have to pay for supples that is all I am willing to pay.
Just want to add that when the deeming regs were first announced, I was on my soapbox with family, friends and anyone who would listen. I tried to get them involved in advocacy, CAASA, etc and most just smiled and rolled their eyes like I was a crazy old lady. I quickly figured out it just wasn't important to some people. I guess based on my experience, I am not too concerned about the effect on the general public as harsh as that sounds. They have options and they choose to ignore the idiotic government regulations and lies.
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Just because someone has been vaping long enough to find a liquid they like doesn't mean they read ECF or are immersed in vape culture and news. So they may not be aware of pending laws, or DIY.
Yes those that do read ECF have no excuse.
Winner!
The Number of people who frequent the ECF and or Follow Legislative and Regulatory issues are a Minuscule Fraction of the Total amount of e-Cigarettes users.
Heck, I have meet Many CA Vapers who Voted for Prop 56 in 2018 thinking it Only was a Tax on Tobacco. And since e-Liquids don't contain tobacco, they wouldn't be Taxed.
Those aren't the people you described in your previous post, nor who my post referenced. You said, "long time vapers that have found their "all day vape" flavor..........". There's a big difference between them... and someone who could be even a pretty new vaper, yet found an eliquid they like. Heck, I found 2 that I liked within 4 days of starting to vape.
You don't have to be immersed in ECF, nor all that vaping entails, nor the rest of what you mentioned...to be aware of what's going on. I have friends and family, none of who vape, who've asked me about the things they've seen and heard about the FDA and vaping, media reports on the teen stuff, potential bans on flavorings, online sales, etc., etc.
Couldn't agree more. I did the exact same thing when I switched to vaping, I looked for something that would be similar to the smoke taste and tried tobacco flavors ... they made me nauseous so I switched to other flavors, grape, vanilla, etc.
Unfortunately, if I could not vape the flavors I like, I would most likely go back to cigarettes.
You're someone they know, who vapes. If they didn't know anyone that vaped, they probably wouldn't have much interest.
I wouldn't know nearly as much as I know now without being part of a community with a shared interest.
Not say'n that you do.
But if a person is Not a Member of an e-Cigarette Forum, or directly connected via some form of Social Media which deals with Advocacy, the chances of them knowing what is going on plummets.
I would Venture to say that 90 out of 100 CA Vapers have never heard of SB-38. And of the few who have heard something about it, the ones who Truly Understand it you could count on One Hand.
Yes, vehemently. I think the idea that there will be so many ejuice "dealers" in CA to satisfy the needs of desperate vapers is simply ludicrous. There will be some in the bigger cities, but not enough even then to satisfy a small fraction of current vapers needs, much less bringing new vapers into the fold.
This idea is even more suspect when you consider the amount of bathtub juice that will be sold without even the barest hope of reasonable hygienic and QC practices (especially for nic content) and possibly dangerous components being used or at the least non-usda approved components because they are cheaper. Do you really think this "big joe" juice will be made in labs to exacting standards?
And absolutely no to everyone knows a "big joe". Why would they? They buy quality juice, mostly from quality ejuice manufacturers (I know some buy shop made juice, which I don't see as wise but probably still better than "big joe") in their preferred flavors, at a reputable shop whether that's local or online at places they trust and have developed a relationship with.
So IMO, "big joe" is not a viable alternative for the majority to get their juice. Even if they know a "big joe" it would not be a wise decision to exercise that option... for obvious reasons.
So to you the only way to find an ADV is to read ECF, follow the FDA, and be fully invested? /boggle
First I do agree there aren't going to be a lot of people selling this on the side (illegal dealing). If anything it will be people making some to sell to family and friends to cover their own costs of making juice. I don't see this as the next big organized crime market.
Now here is where I start to disagree. Just because some individual(s) are making liquid to sell illegally doesn't mean they are going to start putting random crap in it. Why would they waste money buying extra crap to put in it? Do you really think most current juice mixers really ran out and bought a lab to start their business? I would bet every last one of the name brands started out as a guy in his garage or a vape shop in house brand before they "got famous". Even today I doubt many if any are made in a lab by full fledged chemists beyond the stuff used by JUUL and other big name pod brands. The fact is you don't need a lab or a chemical engineering degree to MIX juice. It is precisely because it is so cheap and easy to do that makes DIY so worth while to anyone willing to do it. All someone would need to do to scale up from DIY to sales is more space, more ingredients, more bottles, and some extra people that can follow a simple recipe.
One of the things that really bothers me in this thread is the few posts I've seen saying those vapers that have quit smoking can just stop vaping too. I agree this is a solution, but it's not so easy really. The nature of addiction and dependency is just not that simple. Giving up nic, at least for me, is the easiest part of quitting if that's what I wanted to do. But that's only a small part of the addiction to smoking or vaping really. Of course smoking addiction is worse than vaping addiction I think with all the chemical additives that vaping doesn't have, and most of the ancillary dependencies of vaping probably originated from smoking dependencies... but vaping satisfies them quite nicely... and they still exist. Dependencies like hand to mouth ritual, sucking in a lungful of pseudo smoke, exhaling same, time of day I expect to get this ritual fix like after meals, etc. There are lots of carry overs from smoking that vaping satisfies that has nothing to do with nic fix, although that is part of it all. And even flavors play a very big part because in anticipation of the next toot on the mod is expectation of the flavor we know we will enjoy.
Before the huge price rise in cigarettes I would never have deviated from my favorite brand of smokes, and none of my friends would either. We had flavors we were used to and could anticipate (part of the dependency) and if a friend offered me one of his I would have to be fairly desperate to take it rather than run out to a CS to pick up a pack of my brand.
I know for me, after working for many hours without vaping, just the act of picking up my mod after I make to my car and out of my clients parking lot relaxes me before I even take a toot. And of course I relax even more after filling my lungs with that sweet, sweet flavor I had known was coming. And the onset of the nic effect after a short time validates the relaxing feeling I had when I picked up the mod and before I actually vaped. This is a small part of the addiction/dependency synergy. It's not a simple equation to understand or fix.
Finally, the argument that the vaper can just quit is narrow minded in the way that for the last 25 years at least this is the same argument non-smokers have used against smokers. It really makes me sad to see this argument used by vapers to other vapers.
Before the huge price rise in cigarettes I would never have deviated from my favorite brand of smokes, and none of my friends would either. We had flavors we were used to and could anticipate (part of the dependency) and if a friend offered me one of his I would have to be fairly desperate to take it rather than run out to a CS to pick up a pack of my brand.
I know for me, after working for many hours without vaping, just the act of picking up my mod after I make to my car and out of my clients parking lot relaxes me before I even take a toot. And of course I relax even more after filling my lungs with that sweet, sweet flavor I had known was coming. And the onset of the nic effect after a short time validates the relaxing feeling I had when I picked up the mod and before I actually vaped. This is a small part of the addiction/dependency synergy. It's not a simple equation to understand or fix.
Finally, the argument that the vaper can just quit is narrow minded in the way that for the last 25 years at least this is the same argument non-smokers have used against smokers. It really makes me sad to see this argument used by vapers to other vapers.
I agree with a lot that has been said but for anyone who started in the early years, do you remember the setups of people who were selling eliquids at the time? Most were at their dining table or in the garage and there was no quality control until much later.
I even remember on one of the ecf vendor threads, someone complained that their order smelled strongly of cigarette smoke and the vendor explained that her husband helped in the business but was still smoking while packing orders, etc. It didn't deter us from buying juice without the control and in fact, the aforementioned vendor is still on ecf, still in the biz.
I even remember on one of the ecf vendor threads, someone complained that their order smelled strongly of cigarette smoke and the vendor explained that her husband helped in the business but was still smoking while packing orders, etc. It didn't deter us from buying juice without the control and in fact, the aforementioned vendor is still on ecf, still in the biz.
I remember a long thread about dog hair found in a bottle of eliquid from one of our ECF-members-turned-e-liquid manufacturer.
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