Call to BOYCOTT - HASTINGS bans e-cig use in stores nationwide

[vjtk]

I used to go to Hastings café to enjoy a nice cup of coffee with my friend every week. One morning an associate told me I could not use my electronic cigarette inside. I was furious. No one has ever told me I cannot use my e-cig in public. As we know, E-cigs are not cigarettes and in no way produce any cigarette-like byproduct except for VAPOR. Obviously Hastings has decided to offend e-cig users since they are in the minority. Well, I have made it my goal to inform every e-cig user in the US to BOYCOTT HASTINGS. If you'd like to share this with your social network, please do. We must stand up for our rights, and not let the gov't or any other institution give e-cigs a bad name. For once we smokers have been relieved of our nasty habits, but now our new clean habit even offends. WE MUST STAND UP AND SAY NO! Spread the word. Fight for e-cig users. Tweet this. Facebook this. Social network the crap out of this thread.

Here is a copy of what I sent the Hastings service department. (and I did link this thread in the email I sent)

"Dear Hastings Board of Directors,


I used to go to your café to enjoy a nice cup of coffee with my friend every week. One morning an associate of yours told me I could not use my electronic cigarette inside. I was furious. E-cigs are not cigarettes and in no way produce any cigarette-like byproduct except for VAPOR which “looks” like smoke but IS NOT SMOKE. Obviously your team has decided to offend e-cig users since they are in the minority. You have not made this decision based on scientific evidence. The only reason I can imagine is one of your customers complained about the “vapor”...this customer was probably too ignorant to realize e-cigs are harmLESS, but for whatever reason your company has decided ignorance is bliss. E-cigs produces “WATER VAPOR” - it is harmless. People for whatever reason see the vapor and think "smoke" not realizing e-cig EVEN EXIST. Do your research. Without proving otherwise you have simply decided to alienate your e-cig using customers. Well, I have made it my goal to inform every e-cig user in the US to boycott your store.

Starbucks doesn’t have a problem with it, in fact every major coffee chain I’ve used my e-cig in is okay with it. They know about it, and they are okay with it. For that reason I will tell everyone to avoid your store (non e-cig users too) and begin going elsewhere for coffee, books, and the like. Congratulations. "

<service@gohastings.com>

 

[MattZuke]

Starbucks doesn’t have a problem with it, in fact every major coffee chain I’ve used my e-cig in is okay with it. They know about it, and they are okay with it.

Umm, i'm pretty sure Starbucks already banned them. Let me check with google.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-discussion/203313-starbucks-bans-e-cigs.html

Looks like vapeton first broke this.

Starbucks bans E-cigs company wide

I don't have a primary source to verify this, so you might want to double check this fact.

 

[Mac]

Society is built on a foundation of hypocrisy. For years they claimed to care about our health. The government and multinational corporations swore they only wanted to save us from ourselves. Now they wish to force us into a smoking area to breathe the second hand smoke from those who have not shared in our success. Won't happen, not to me. I haven't puffed real smoke in almost 3 years. I will be damned if I am going to breathe someone elses to pacify corporate greed or this absurd nanny state that our low lifed politicians have created.

The star bucks in the one of our malls that has one CAN'T stop you by the way. Our contract with the mall supercedes their ignorance and the tables are in a common mall area and squarely out of their jurisdiction.

For every bar or restaurant that has told me "no" At least 5 have said "yes" Don't want my money? Cool. Others do and I don't want your overpriced crappy coffee anyway.

Red bull for the win.

 

[Uncle Willie]

When you exhale anything that looks like smoke, you are going to run into a problem at some point .. that's just the way it is ..

 

[BADxSANTA]

yer I had the same problem about a year ago hear in the UK at one of our large pub chains (WEATHERSPOONS)
one of the bouncers tried to eject me for using my PV, I asked to speak to the manager and when she came down to speak to me they were OK about it but about an hour later she came back to tell me that there had been so many complaints I had to leave.
Now I have started asking before I fire up.

 

[MattZuke]

Rather than focusing on boycotts, why not focus on citing the places that permit PV use, though even that is problematic since starbucks corporate might give the thumbs down, but managers are okay.

 

[Uncle Willie]

they were OK about it but about an hour later she came back to tell me that there had been so many complaints I had to leave.
Now I have started asking before I fire up.

This is one of the primary problems .. although the establishment may have no issue with PV use, it's other patrons that complain .. seeing what appears to be smoke ..

This is something that many posting these type threads don't seem to take into consideration .. and it's likely the business has seen other PV users .. so your not the first ..

Point is, it's going to happen .. and the more that use PV's, the more we will see it lumped into the general smoking oridinance / law .. so, instead of calling for boycotts that won't happen, why not just follow the rules .. ??

It's pointless for us to become defensive .. be glad you are off the analogs and enjoy your PV when you can .. without ticking off the population at large ..

 

[DC2]

It's pointless for us to become defensive .. be glad you are off the analogs and enjoy your PV when you can .. without ticking off the population at large ..

When the population at large is ticked off about something they don't understand...
Education is the answer, not silent compliance.

I am not saying NOT to comply.
And I am not saying to get angry or get in anyone's face.

But I am saying that we need to keep on educating, one person at a time.
And never accept the idea that things can not change.

 

[bwood12043]

I recently have had experience with this subject and I agree about informing/educating the public to more easily put them on OUR side of the argument.

In June, several of us locally started a WPT Amateur Poker League Venue at a local establishment. Before I joined and we had our first evening session, I called the establishment and asked about use of PV's, was told they didn't know what I was talking about so I used the term electronic cigarette, and was told absolutely NOT.

Well, I went to the first event, and met so many nice people and I introduced them to my device, stealthily using it in spite of what the person on the phone had told me earlier.

Not one of my fellow players, even the anti-smoking ones, had a problem with, so I started using it at the tables, and some even commented on the good smell and some were intrigued and wanted more info for themselves or family/friends.

Finally, I went back to manager, as we have estrablished a friendly relationship, and once I showed her the device, demonstrated it's use and referred her to other weekly players (who by the way, usually eat, drink and spend each week regular as clockwork), she agreed that it was a good thing and she had no problem with it. Note that when explaining it to her, I never used the electronic cigarette verbage, and in many ways, I think it makes a difference.

I have noticed more and more people who may not be totally familiar with our devices, but have vague knowledge/awareness. The technology is spreading and more people are becoming aware, but also there are many who are aware but misinformed. I make it a point to patiently educate and inform them and once they hear my success story, they are advocates all the way.

Hope others have more and even better experiences to relate.

 

[rothenbj]

That has pretty closely duplicated my experience. "Cigarette" brings a negative response, especially since the irrefutable evidence that one whiff can kill you has been established. However a sampling of the vapor has never brought a negative response and often only positive attitudes.

 

[Freddytk421]

IM to scared to even try to vape in places where smoking is not allowed. I was doing it walmart though but I was not letting people see me.

 

[kristin]

so, instead of calling for boycotts that won't happen, why not just follow the rules .. ??

And when "the rules" cover every place else they are banning smoking these days and trying to include e-cigarettes? Your car. Your apartment. Your condo. OUTSIDE?

Private property owners have every right to prohibit activities on their property and that should be respected. But vapers shouldn't just go quietly into the night. What bwood12043 did is more of what we should do - a polite demonstration and presenting knee jerk reactions with FACTS and getting folks on our side, to see how ridiculous banning vaping really is. As smokers we were pushed outside and private business owners were forced to prohibit LEGAL activities on their own property (often to the detriment of their business) over junk science and even outright lies. Everyone just accepted it and "followed the rules" and now they are a hair's breadth away from being able to do what they want even in the privacy of their own home in some places. Give them an inch and they take a mile.

If a business I patronize tells me I cannot vape, I will do 2 things:

1. Give a demonstration and provide them with the facts and ask them to reconsider.

2. If they still prohibit vaping, I will take my business elsewhere and make it clear that they know why.

I cannot continue to tolerate irrational discrimination based on fear mongering just so I don't rock the boat. If we don't call them on it, no one will for us. Otherwise, just as with the smokers, first it will be public places and next it will be our own homes we can't vape. We are already seeing it happening and frankly, it sickens me.

 

[KTaylor]

When the population at large is ticked off about something they don't understand...
Education is the answer, not silent compliance.

I am not saying NOT to comply.
And I am not saying to get angry or get in anyone's face.

But I am saying that we need to keep on educating, one person at a time.
And never accept the idea that things can not change.

Thats what I try to do, and well said!

BTW: Thanks for fighting the fight Kristin

 

[Vocalek]

And when "the rules" cover every place else they are banning smoking these days and trying to include e-cigarettes? Your car. Your apartment. Your condo. OUTSIDE?

I cannot continue to tolerate irrational discrimination based on fear mongering just so I don't rock the boat. If we don't call them on it, no one will for us. Otherwise, just as with the smokers, first it will be public places and next it will be our own homes we can't vape. We are already seeing it happening and frankly, it sickens me.

In case anyone is thinking, "It would never go that far," Kristin is correct. It already is going that far.

See: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...bout-bring-smoking-vaping-bans-new-level.html
and
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-e-cigarettes-low-income-public-housing.html

WAKE UP!

If you don't stand up for yourself, who will?

 

[Pamdane]

Wasnt it Okla. that just ruled e-cigs are not smoking in court? Might want to give a copy to establishments and see if it changes their use policy. Just an idea.

 

[Vocalek]

It was Kansas. http://ksag.washburnlaw.edu/opinions/2011/2011-015.pdf


Virginia was already there back in 2010. http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions and Legal Resources/Opinions/2010opns/10-029-Peace.pdf

 

[vjtk]

Okay guys, glad to see so many replies. I have some new information that may help us all in this fight. Firstly it has been mentioned we should never refer to our e-cigs as e-cigs, but rather "PV's" or I like to just call it a "vaporizor" or better yet an "inhaler".
Has anyone seen this article!? Medicine: Air Germicide - TIME
"Dr. Oswald Hope Robertson last week was making final tests with a new germicidal vapor—propylene glycol—to sterilize air."
So, now we can even claim we are purifying air with our PV's! So, next time someone asks me what I'm using, I'm going to say it's a vaporizor. If they ask if it's a e-cig, I'll say no, there is no nicotine in this product, only flavor. Here is the cavet to the new laws they are proposing...
"n. Smoke means the gases, particles, or vapors released into the air as a result of combustion, electrical ignition or vaporization and the apparent purpose of such release is for human inhalation of the byproducts. Smoke, for purposes of this definition, does not include combustion of material that contains no tobacco or nicotine where the purpose of inhalation is solely for smell, such as smoke from incense. The term Smoke includes, but is not limited to, tobacco smoke, electronic cigarette vapors, and ......... smoke.
o. Smoking means the carrying of a lighted pipe, lighted cigar, an operating electronic cigarette or a lighted cigarette of any kind, or the lighting of a pipe, cigar, or cigarette of any kind, including, but not limited to, tobacco, or any other weed or plant.
p. Tobacco Product means any manufactured substance made from the tobacco plant, including but not limited to cigarettes, cigars, pipe tobacco, snuff, chewing tobacco and smokeless tobacco, or products prepared from tobacco and designed for smoking or ingestion."
http://www.comptoncity.org/agenda/2011/10_2011/112510/18450710202011065821528.pdf

new legislation is grouping vapor with smoke, but not other types of smoke like from inscense. Basicly if the smoke or vapor is NOT used to deliver nicotine it's okay. So what if my liquid is 0% nicotine and I'm only vaping for flavor? That is my new defense against the ignorant masses, especially the "enforcers"

 

[vjtk]

I hope all states follow Kansas!!!...and I will try to educate, but that isn't my job. I do understand our responsibilities, though, but I cant explain everything to all ignorant people all the time.

 

[DC2]

Has anyone seen this article!? Medicine: Air Germicide - TIME
"Dr. Oswald Hope Robertson last week was making final tests with a new germicidal vapor—propylene glycol—to sterilize air."
So, now we can even claim we are purifying air with our PV's!

There is a lot more positive things you can cite regarding propylene glycol...
--It used to be used in prescription inhalers
--It has been, and may still be used in hospitals to sanitize air
--It is used to deliver medication in lung transplants

NOTE: That last one may be slightly off, I can't remember the exact details right now

Anyway, you should check out this link...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...you-going-interviewed-about-e-cigarettes.html

 

[Vocalek]

I hope all states follow Kansas!!!...and I will try to educate, but that isn't my job. I do understand our responsibilities, though, but I cant explain everything to all ignorant people all the time.

Suggestion: Here is a quick and easy way to educate. Order a supply of CASAA business cards and carry some with you to hand to people who ask about what you are doing. On the back side of the card is a list of benefits of e-cigarettes--things that we as a consumer group are free to state (1st Amendment) but which vendors cannot publish under thier own logo or on their web site, lest the FDA accuse them of making health claims.

You are only charged for the cost of shipping. The cost of printing the cards is covered by donations made to CASAA.

ProductCart shopping cart software - CASAA

Vendors are invited to order a supply of cards to make them available to their customers.