Calling BS on dual coils!

[emus]

Emus,

I really hate that you're taking what I said so hard! (Really, in all seriousness.)
Apparently you guys are taking it that I'm some sort of anti-dual coil, neoconservative, Nazi freak.... which is really weird, but, whatever! That's not the case anyway. I actually have a few more dual coil and a quad coil RDA on the way (and a couple of single coil too). They each have there place. Out and about, I like the single coil at 1 to 1.3 ohm... that way I'm not carrying a couple of extra batteries or having a battery crap out at a bad time. At home, .5 dual coils... batteries be damned (but the wife does complain!).

How many of those W's are you running at more than a whole, entire ohm? Would you run them at... say 1.8 ohms? It would be a waste of time, right? Why would it be a waste of time? If you actually answered those questions then you have just followed the same thought process that lies behind my original post. I did it just to see which worked better overall.

You guys are starting to act like I just shot your dog and then flipped you a bird! You gotta read past the thread title.

Nice builds, BTW!

You did have a catchy headline. We are laughing w/ you. It's all good here.

At 3.7 volts I wouldn't wind a 1.8 ohm dually unless a more efficient build is discovered. Currently, not much focus on efficiency. We are in the who has the biggest V8 stage like the late 60s. Gas is cheap.

 

[rurwin]

Apart from the fluid dynamics of wicking and vaporising (and those can probably be approximated), it is all simple high school maths and physics. It would be easy to draw a nice graph showing how everything relates. Unfortunately it would be a six (or more) dimensional graph and nobody could visualise it.

I'm interested in building a variable current mod, because with a constant current, and given a similar size and material of wire, each mm of wire gets heated the same. A four turn coil would heat the same as a six turn coil, a 2mm diameter coil would heat the same as a 3mm diameter coil. But nothing is perfect; change the wire and the heating effect is different.

 

[Sirius]

Strictly speaking, heat is not the same as temperature, and I think this statement conflates these terms. If "how hot the coil element gets" is supposed to mean "how high a temperature it reaches", the statement is relevant but incorrect. If it is supposed to mean "how much thermal energy it puts out", the statement is correct but irrelevant.

For vaping purposes we are interested in getting the surface temperature right. Too high a temperature, and the juice will burn. Too low, and it will not vaporize properly. This has little or nothing to do with the size of the coil's surface.

Incidentally, this also explains why variable wattage turned out not to be the magic bullet that it was hoped to be. A good VW circuit can ensure a constant heat between different attys, but it can not ensure what matters: A constant temperature.

I suppose you're right Damp -- I'm not nit picking and if I was, I would say that you would also have to factor in at what temperature the different mixes of e liquid cook off at. Does VG have the same temperature rate of cook-off as PG? Idk, but then also the ratio of PG/VG would then factor in. I have my standard 70/30 PG/VG mix but often change that around. Like I said before in another post, why complicate things?
Okay, so I am nit picking.

 

[Sirius]

In closing on this thread I will say, when I first got interested in mechanical mods, the information simply blew my mind! Talk about complicating things! I almost just stayed with my VV/VW mod. It was a POS. I'm glad I got over my lack of understanding of all the technical abbreviations and plunged head on with purchasing one. As far as coil building, that was a bit complicated also at first. But with trial and error I have settled on what works for me on my RDA.
You guys have fun complicating things,for me, I'll simply stand back and laugh.

 

[inanitydefined]

my coils run about 1-1.4 ohm each. I find 1.2ish per coil gives me the best flavor while still putting out good vapor. that's also the reason my quad coil genny has become my most used atty as of late.

the 1.3 dual isn't actually draining your battery quicker. the battery doesn't care where the current goes, only how much goes, and 1.3 ohm is 1.3 ohm. what is happening is this.
a 1.3 dual is actually 2 2.6 ohm coils. with a brand new battery, that's 6.7 watt per coil not factoring voltage drop. by the time that battery hits 3.7 volt, its only a little over 5 watt. Now factor in vdrop and those numbers go down 10-20% Your batteries aren't dying, they just aren't pushing enough heat to vaporize your juice
now the single at the same time at the same resistance is going from 13.4 down to 10.4 watt. plenty of heat to keep vaping, even down to 3.4v at 8.89watt (but don't do that, its bad for the batteries)

 

[roadie]

I still don't understand the arguments. Two coils with the exact same current running through them will give twice the vapor of one coil at the same current. You can't compare the OVERALL resistance of a single and dual setup. Singles and duals both have their place and uses equally IMO.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

[roadie]

Damn tapatalk lol


Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

[roadie]

Double post......

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

[Myk]

my coils run about 1-1.4 ohm each. I find 1.2ish per coil gives me the best flavor while still putting out good vapor. that's also the reason my quad coil genny has become my most used atty as of late.

the 1.3 dual isn't actually draining your battery quicker. the battery doesn't care where the current goes, only how much goes, and 1.3 ohm is 1.3 ohm. what is happening is this.
a 1.3 dual is actually 2 2.6 ohm coils. with a brand new battery, that's 6.7 watt per coil not factoring voltage drop. by the time that battery hits 3.7 volt, its only a little over 5 watt. Now factor in vdrop and those numbers go down 10-20% Your batteries aren't dying, they just aren't pushing enough heat to vaporize your juice
now the single at the same time at the same resistance is going from 13.4 down to 10.4 watt. plenty of heat to keep vaping, even down to 3.4v at 8.89watt (but don't do that, its bad for the batteries)

What I found using higher ohm duals and mechs is it took longer to heat up. So while the battery in a mech may not be using more to power a 1.5Ω dual compared to a 1.5Ω single it was being fired for a lot longer using more amp hours.

TNSTAAFL is rule #1. You need more energy to fire two 3Ω coils than you do to fire one 1.5Ω coil. Whether that energy comes from time or whether it comes from voltage it has to be there or else we'd have perpetual motion machines.

 

[Ryedan]

I still don't understand the arguments. Two coils with the exact same current running through them will give twice the vapor of one coil at the same current. You can't compare the OVERALL resistance of a single and dual setup. Singles and duals both have their place and uses equally IMO.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

Like the OP, I also compared the performance of very similar resistance single and dual coil setups. It is valid for me as it compares the performance of different same power setups. I see it as asking; if I'm going to put 20 watts in my atty, should I use one or two coils?

Sure, using two 1 ohm coils will make twice the vapor compared to one 1 ohm coil. I think that's fairly obvious

 

[Mitey F]

Apart from the fluid dynamics of wicking and vaporising (and those can probably be approximated), it is all simple high school maths and physics. It would be easy to draw a nice graph showing how everything relates. Unfortunately it would be a six (or more) dimensional graph and nobody could visualise it.

I'm interested in building a variable current mod, because with a constant current, and given a similar size and material of wire, each mm of wire gets heated the same. A four turn coil would heat the same as a six turn coil, a 2mm diameter coil would heat the same as a 3mm diameter coil. But nothing is perfect; change the wire and the heating effect is different.

This discussion has been had before. Watts is a better way to determine heat (watts is literally a measurement of heat transfer), not amps. I think if you use your search-fu you could find the thread.

 

[Ryedan]

This whole thing about coil temperature is I believe misunderstood by a lot of people.

As long as you have enough power to start vaporizing juice, coil surface temperature does not vary because of power applied.

It only goes up if the wire is not wet enough.

Thoughts anyone ...

 

[roadie]

Like the OP, I also compared the performance of very similar resistance single and dual coil setups. It is valid for me as it compares the performance of different same power setups. I see it as asking; if I'm going to put 20 watts in my atty, should I use one or two coils?

Sure, using two 1 ohm coils will make twice the vapor compared to one 1 ohm coil. I think that's fairly obvious

If that's the case this thread should be called which coil setup is best for optimum vaping with minimum battery draw. Again, it's comparing apples to oranges for equal resistance setups.

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[roadie]

Deleted,......,.....



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[Sirius]

This whole thing about coil temperature is I believe misunderstood by a lot of people.

As long as you have enough power to start vaporizing juice, coil temperature does not vary because of power applied.

It only goes up if the wire is not wet enough.

Thoughts anyone ...

Yeah just one more. You get a good hard hitting mech mod, add a good RDA like the Trident V2. Get your air-flow holes positioned in the correct place,(at the coils) Have those coils built correctly whether @ 1.0 ohms or under for both, and you have a fantastic hit's like a beast mod set-up.
The End..lol

 

[Ryedan]

Yeah just one more. You get a good hard hitting mech mod, add a good RDA like the Trident V2. Get your air-flow holes positioned in the correct place,(at the coils) Have those coils built correctly whether @ 1.0 ohms or under for both, and you have a fantastic hit's like a beast mod set-up.
The End..lol

That's what I'm vaping right now, with 1 ohm coils . I couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Mitey F]

This whole thing about coil temperature is I believe misunderstood by a lot of people.

As long as you have enough power to start vaporizing juice, coil surface temperature does not vary because of power applied.

It only goes up if the wire is not wet enough.

Thoughts anyone ...

Correct 10char

 

[emus]

L
Sure, using two 1 ohm coils will make twice the vapor compared to one 1 ohm coil. I think that's fairly obvious

This whole thing about coil temperature is I believe misunderstood by a lot of people.

As long as you have enough power to start vaporizing juice, coil surface temperature does not vary because of power applied.

It only goes up if the wire is not wet enough.

Thoughts anyone ...

I have 2 thoughts today

Your twice the vapor comment is not obvious to me.

Coil surface temp analysis would be easier to conduct on a stove eye not a tiny atty coil. Much easier to thermocouple stove eye surface.

 

[tj99959]

This whole thing about coil temperature is I believe misunderstood by a lot of people.

As long as you have enough power to start vaporizing juice, coil surface temperature does not vary because of power applied.

It only goes up if the wire is not wet enough.

Thoughts anyone ...

You can apply all the power you want to a pot of water, the water will not exceed 212deg.

 

[Myk]

This whole thing about coil temperature is I believe misunderstood by a lot of people.

As long as you have enough power to start vaporizing juice, coil surface temperature does not vary because of power applied.

It only goes up if the wire is not wet enough.

Thoughts anyone ...

Well, if you turn up the power so it's heating faster than it feeds you could say it's because of the power applied. Or you could say it's because of a lack of feed. Everything plays together, you can't single out one thing.

Going to the pot of boiling water, but instead let's make it chili. Turn up the power and while the mass of chili may not get hotter than chili can get the bottom of the pan is going to get burnt chili on it where those bits of chili got hot enough to burn. It is a feed problem, if you stir constantly keeping the bottom of the pan fed you get no burnt chili, but that feed problem is related to the amount of power applied.
It's either you didn't stir to feed fast enough OR you applied too much power.

And with attys we have another issue, airflow. Boiling your beer outside on a cold windy day is going to take more power than boiling it on a calm warm day.
I'm sure the reason I didn't like sub-ohm is because I'm used to taking long slow hits.
They all play together. The key is getting a set up that plays for you.