Can I still use these flavourings?

[Danny55]

Hi guys. I bought a bunch of flavours from a company called Flavour Art UK, all these,

Apple Fuji
Pear
Banana
Strawberry
Apple Pie
Marzipan
Cookie
Vanilla Bourbon
Cinnamon
Vienna Cream
Custard

Hardly used any of them. However, I just looked at an email which says I bought them 3rd December 2015. I've also got almond, sweetener and ethyl maltol and one or two others I think from some other companies bought around the same time.

Can I still use them or will they be long gone? I read on some forum where someone said they had some flavours nearly 3 years old and they tasted fine. My main concern is, is it dangerous to use them or is it just case of diminished flavour? They're all in hard plastic 10ml bottles, and have been inside a cardboard box so haven't seen much light.

 

[Izan]

Hi Danny,
I would use them.
Two years is not so old.
Make a small sample of each to test and then mix away with the ones that (still) taste good.
From here: Frequently Asked Questions

Contact Us


Cheers
I

 

[Danny55]

Hi Izan,

Thanks for your reply. Well I guess mine are nearly 3 years old. Yes, I'd in fact seen that very same FAQ answer from the FA site just after I'd posted here so it does seem to be ok. Although where he says it's a personal choice to use them or not, I wasn't sure if he meant it could be unsafe or just won't be as good. I'll go ahead and try some though.

I was thinking of buying a bottle of menthol flavouring. Do you think menthol with either banana, strawberry, apple or pear would work? The reason I'm considering it is because unfortunately for 4 years I've not been able to taste juices properly which is frustrating, and all I've been buying is Red Astaire concentrate, a fruity menthol aniseed juice which gives me some sort of flavour and mostly the menthol part works for me.

I normally make up 30ml bottles at 3% nic of 72% strength VG based nic, 70/30 VG/PG and 15% concentrate. With a single fruit flavour, I'm not sure how much menthol and a single fruit flavour would be a good mix, any idea?

 

[IDJoel]

I have some flavor concentrates (that I don't use often) that are going on 5 years. I don't notice any difference. There may be a loss of potency. But, if there is, I can't tell.

I have not heard of any dangers that come from old(er) concentrates, so I use mine without further thought. Doesn't mean there aren't any... just that I am not aware of any.

 

[Danny55]

Thank you IDJoel, good to get further confirmation that it seems to be ok to use them.

 

[Danny55]

Oh, one more question if you guys don't mind. I haven't got any new plastic bottles to make up new recipes. But I have a ton of hard and soft plastic 5 and 10ml bottles with very old pre-made juice going back to 2013 and I wondered if you think they can be reused for making new juices? I've got an ultrasonic cleaner I can clean them out with but often the smell of old juices still lingers.

 

[stols001]

I would maybe be more concerned about the plastic and leeching than the flavors to be honest. If they are that very thin flimsy plastic I could kind of see that not being so great (more for reasons of health than flavor transfer) but it really depends what kind of plastic they are made of.

I personally wouldn't I rinse and reuse glass bottles but not plastic ones, even if they're newish. I am not 100% certain either way, but my inclination might be to not. Check what they're made of if you can figure it out and see if leeching is a concern with that plastic I guess.

Anna

 

[Izan]

Hi Izan,

I wasn't sure if he meant it could be unsafe or just won't be as good. I'll go ahead and try some though.

I was thinking of buying a bottle of menthol flavouring.

I'm not sure how much menthol and a single fruit flavour would be a good mix, any idea?

I have a ton of hard and soft plastic 5 and 10ml bottles with very old pre-made juice. I've got an ultrasonic cleaner I can clean them out with but often the smell of old juices still lingers.

John from FlavourartUK is very active on some UK forums. He is the person speaking/creating the FAQ.
IF there was any problem or danger, I trust that John would not hesitate to mention it.

I don't do menthol...BUT I suggest you mix your fruit base first at about 75% of recommended and make a small bottle of 5%-10% menthol. Add a drop or two at a time of the menthol mix to the fruit(s) until you get to your happy place.

Only you can decide how clean the bottles need to be, to reuse.



HTH
I

 

[Danny55]

I would maybe be more concerned about the plastic and leeching than the flavors to be honest. If they are that very thin flimsy plastic I could kind of see that not being so great (more for reasons of health than flavor transfer) but it really depends what kind of plastic they are made of.

I personally wouldn't I rinse and reuse glass bottles but not plastic ones, even if they're newish. I am not 100% certain either way, but my inclination might be to not. Check what they're made of if you can figure it out and see if leeching is a concern with that plastic I guess.

Anna

Hi Anna. That's a valid point you made. The bottles that the flavourings are in seem to be PET bottles, the harder type, which I think are safe? Some of my old juice bottles are also PET but most are LDPE which might be unsafe and leech as you mentioned. I guess I should throw those away and perhaps just use the harder plastic ones. If I can get the spout bit off, they're often harder to remove on those hard bottles! I've got one glass bottle, so will definitely use that.

John from FlavourartUK is very active on some UK forums. He is the person speaking/creating the FAQ.
IF there was any problem or danger, I trust that John would not hesitate to mention it.

I don't do menthol...BUT I suggest you mix your fruit base first at about 75% of recommended and make a small bottle of 5%-10% menthol. Add a drop or two at a time of the menthol mix to the fruit(s) until you get to your happy place.

Only you can decide how clean the bottles need to be, to reuse.

HTH
I

Thanks Izan. Just to make sure I understand what you said on two points.

Flavour Art suggest starting at around 3%, so do you mean 75% of 3%?
And with the menthol, instead of just adding drops of concentrated menthol straight from the bottle to the fruit, are you saying mix up 5 to 10% menthol with my normal 70/30 VG/PG mix first?

 

[Danny55]

Hmm, just got this from from the plasticbottlecompany

"Polyethylene terephthalate (PET) can be used and reused, but repeated washing may cause toxic chemicals to leach from the plastic into the contents. Recycle them when they become cloudy or cracked.

High-density polyethylene (HDPE) containers are frequently used in the food industry for freezer containers.

Low-density polyethylene (LDPE) plastic containers do not leach toxic chemicals into food and are often used for freezing foodstuffs. "

 

[JCinFLA]

But I have a ton of hard and soft plastic 5 and 10ml bottles with very old pre-made juice going back to 2013 and I wondered if you think they can be reused for making new juices?

Hi Anna. That's a valid point you made. The bottles that the flavourings are in seem to be PET bottles, the harder type, which I think are safe? Some of my old juice bottles are also PET but most are LDPE which might be unsafe and leech as you mentioned.

Actually, the PET (harder to squeeze when small sized bottles, made of clear or colored plastic) are the ones you should NOT reuse. PET bottles are manufactured for one-time use only. Bottles that are LDPE, PP, and HDPE are the ones that do not leach plastic chemicals into their contents.

 

[Danny55]

Thanks JCinFLA. Indeed, I seem to be finding out that PET bottles are the baddies here. The only PET bottles I've been using are the 30ml ones that my Red Astaire concentrate is sent in which get emptied after about a month or two, so I'm going to assume that time period is safe enough before leeching occurs. If my soft bottles are LDPE, then I guess I'm good to go with washing them out and reusing. I must say though, I'm quite tempted to buy a bunch of glass bottles.

 

[JCinFLA]

The only PET bottles I've been using are the 30ml ones that my Red Astaire concentrate is sent in which get emptied after about a month or two, so I'm going to assume that time period is safe enough before leeching occurs. If my soft bottles are LDPE, then I guess I'm good to go with washing them out and reusing. I must say though, I'm quite tempted to buy a bunch of glass bottles.

You're fine using your concentrates that are in PET bottles, until the bottles are empty (that's the 1-time use of them). Any potential leaching would only occur with repeated washing and reusing.

I wash and reuse my LDPE, PP, and HDPE bottles all the time for my flavorings and eliquids, and I've been doing it for almost 4 years. There's no potential leaching problem with doing that with those types of plastics.

I always use only glass bottles for nicotine base storage, and for some flavorings because I buy them in 16oz. size (because it takes much longer to use that amount). My smaller sized flavorings (8mL-120mL size), I just usually keep in whatever type of vials or bottles they come in. Most of the smaller sizes usually come in PET, PP, or LDPE, and I leave them in those. Sometimes the 120mL size comes in PP or LDPE, and sometimes it's glass...which are all fine, with me.

 

[Danny55]

You're fine using your concentrates that are in PET bottles, until the bottles are empty (that's the 1-time use of them). Any potential leaching would only occur with repeated washing and reusing.

I wash and reuse my LDPE, PP, and HDPE bottles all the time for my flavorings and eliquids, and I've been doing it for almost 4 years. There's no potential leaching problem with doing that with those types of plastics.

I always use only glass bottles for nicotine base storage, and for some flavorings because I buy them in 16oz. size (because it takes much longer to use that amount). My smaller sized flavorings (8mL-120mL size), I just usually keep in whatever type of vials or bottles they come in. Most of the smaller sizes usually come in PET, PP, or LDPE, and I leave them in those. Sometimes the 120mL size comes in PP or LDPE, and sometimes it's glass...which are all fine, with me.

Good to hear. I must admit though, I've been using the same 250ml of 72mg nic since I bought it in December 2015 and it's still in it's original plastic bottle which looks like a bit like LDPE but it's firmer. I probably should have transferred it to glass ages ago and I never refridgerated it either, I just keep it in a cupboard. Seems to taste fine so I guess it's ok. Smells of digestive biscuits and is a darkish orange, which it's pretty much always been.

 

[Izan]

Thanks Izan. Just to make sure I understand what you said on two points.
Flavour Art suggest starting at around 3%, so do you mean 75% of 3%?
And with the menthol, instead of just adding drops of concentrated menthol straight from the bottle to the fruit, are you saying mix up 5 to 10% menthol with my normal 70/30 VG/PG mix first?

D,
You are correct.
You can always add more concentrate/menthol/etc, if needed.

Cheers
I

 

[JCinFLA]

I've been using the same 250ml of 72mg nic since I bought it in December 2015 and it's still in it's original plastic bottle which looks like a bit like LDPE but it's firmer. I probably should have transferred it to glass ages ago and I never refridgerated it either, I just keep it in a cupboard. Seems to taste fine so I guess it's ok. Smells of digestive biscuits and is a darkish orange, which it's pretty much always been.

The bottle your nic base is in is most likely HDPE plastic. It doesn't leach plastic chemicals, but isn't as good for storing nic base long-term, as glass bottles are. If the nic is a darkish orange color and has never been refrigerated nor frozen since you bought it in Dec. 2015...normally I'd say it's likely just oxidized a bunch in almost 3 years. Each time when you've opened the bottle it has allowed more air in. The nic mg might possibly test to be very slightly less than its original 72mg/mL because of it.

However, you said it's always been pretty much that darkish orange and had that same smell since you bought it. IMO, it shouldn't have been like that from the get-go. It should've been clear to possibly only very very slightly tinged with color and had no discernable smell when new. Personally...I'd be a little leery of vaping it, but that's just my own thoughts on it.

 

[Capt.shay]

Good to hear. I must admit though, I've been using the same 250ml of 72mg nic since I bought it in December 2015 and it's still in it's original plastic bottle which looks like a bit like LDPE but it's firmer. I probably should have transferred it to glass ages ago and I never refridgerated it either, I just keep it in a cupboard. Seems to taste fine so I guess it's ok. Smells of digestive biscuits and is a darkish orange, which it's pretty much always been.

That sounds like some nasty Nic. and I'm sure after that amount of time it is gross. Trash that nic and get some fresh stuff. Refrigerate or freeze in glass. This may be why you can't taste some of your juices. Your oxidated Nic. could be drowning out the flavors.

 

[Danny55]

I think you guys are right, I think Ill buy 100mg of fresh nic. Ok, I'll decant it all into glass, perhaps I'll buy a couple of 50ml glass bottles. I must admit, I've had an unpleasant peppery sensation back of the throat. Thought it was my wicking but it must be the nic.

When I take it out the freezer can I mix with it straight away or does it need to sit for a while? I know it doesn't freeze solid but does it need to kind of thaw a bit? Would I be better off with PG nic this time? Mine is VG based.

 

[stols001]

You should probably give it time to warm up a bit, it does get a bit thick when it is cold. That peppery sensation does sound like older nic.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't affect storage of nic or length of time it can be frozen in any way, but if you can get either 50/50 or PG (whatever works best for your mixing purposes) I would probably do that because PG is easier to work with. I am PG sensitive and can only use VG nic and find it a bit of a pain to deal with because it is so gloopy. Etc.

Anna

 

[Danny55]

Thanks Anna. I just ordered 100ml of PG nic. Now that I'm more aware of my nic, it's tasting worse on each toot. I should receive the nic in a couple of days or so and I'll put it in the freezer.