There is zero liability to the CC holder when the credit card number is hacked anyway so long as one notifies the CC company within 60 days. I just use a secondary card for online purchases.
Card Fraud
- Thread starter Judge Dredd
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There is zero liability to the CC holder when the credit card number is hacked anyway so long as one notifies the CC company within 60 days. I just use a secondary card for online purchases.
Actually, there was no attitude associated with my posts. If you found them distasteful, sure, but I'm just trying to help here like everyone else.
Having 30+ threads on fraud....and most of the time the original poster doesn't want to give much info at all, not much that can help, makes trying to resolve this issue, or at least work towards a common goal difficult.
I've been trying to find a common link with these fraud cases, and I went through EVERY single thread on ECF regarding fraud. I tallied every single vendor that could have possibly been a source of the fraud (according to posters here) and even went through the trouble of private messaging EVERY single person I've seen post in any fraud thread, mentioning them having fraud.
Which, by the way, if anyone is curious as to my results, feel free to PM me. I don't want to post it in public.
Again, I am just trying to help, and looking at this from a logical point of view. I'm a computer security guy, so I really want to help as much as the people who have been victims of fraud.
Again, the MORE info you give us, the more WE can help. There should be a Fraud Mega-thread , which I think would help greatly.
Also, I found several of the major vendors that keep coming up....and I'm willing to bet they have the same CC processing company. I haven't gotten to that point yet, and not every vendor wants to say who's theirs is.
Thanks for proving my point
Like I said...if the vendors don't at least TRY to acknowledge this issue which IS a e-cig/vape vending issue (and not a computer security / fraud issue in general).....then I predict in the next few months, 12+ months tops....they are going to lose a decent percent of their business.
When you see this many abnormal fraud threads pop up, especially since April, it tells you something. Think of how many people HAVENT decided to come on ECF and make a thread about it. Think of the few who have been hit twice (Ive seen a few people who have on here).
If the vendors don't confront this issue....it is going to hurt everyone , INCLUDING them. I sense brick and mortar companies becoming more relevant, even with their prices 3x as high!
Very good point!
There are definitely pros and cons to using a debit card....and using a pre-paid card. Personally, I use a debit card, for the exact reason you just stated.
However, I also see the allure in using a pre-paid card, for the reasons I stated early in this thread. You can assign a specific amount to the card at a time.....
For instance, say I have $48.50 in my shopping cart at "E-Cig Vendor A1". I can run to wal-greens, which is a 5 minute drive, and put $50 on a pre-paid card.
That means after my transaction, I only have $1.50 left on my card.....until I decide to order from an e-cig vendor again...and re-fill my card. Therefore, if I become a victim of fraud....I am only out $1.50.
That is just an example of how I would do it, IF I were to use pre-paid cards.
I cringe when a waitperson takes my card away and brings it back with a slip for me to sign. How do I know that they didn't use their phone and a USB card reader to store the info? They also have the opportunity to copy the 3 digit authorization code on the back. IMO, that's the easiest way to lose control of your card. You are assuming that all waitpeople are honest.
It's either that or we all had a rogue app on our computers that sifted through our cache and picked out credit card numbers from keystrokes we made. Mine show clean from Malwarebytes (registered version with real time scanning) and Microsoft Security Essentials. Yes, I know that none of the virus scanners cover ALL of the possibilities. They all pick and choose the most dangerous and the most used threats. Any program that constantly scanned for all threats would bring your computer to its knees. They rely on heuristic scanning techniques that identify fingerprints and look at the hooks the viruses use.
Then, there are rootkits and others that attach to the boot sector.
Um you do realize Judge Dredd is a moderator? I think he would know how to do a search on ECF and is quite aware of all the threads on ECF. Not only these CC fraud ones but all the threads.
I read these threads and see new ones pop up all the time. I knock on wood that I've not gotten hit (way to go Robin, you have probably jinxed yourself
). I for one will not be visiting B&M stores, unless they carry HHV liquid and genuine Nova's. Those are the only things I purchase. I only purchase from two sites online (except when I bought my Prothingy).
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Thank you Ocelot. That's helpful!
I partially agree. A single post on a popular forum about some company having issues with fraud can severely damage business, especially when the person who made that post is a staff member like myself.
Perhaps that's the case for some, but I don't believe that's the case for me since my background is in malware analysis and detection.
I can personally only provide the information that my bank gave me. What they have me is in the first post. What more would you like so I can be of help in your "investigation?"
Yep....every single person who posted that they were victims of fraud....and didn't publically state which vendors they recently ordered from.
I PM'ed about 150 ppl.
I'm creating a form that I'd like all members who've experienced fraud to fill out and submit. I will link to it here when I am finished.
I removed the name because it wouldn't be fair to the company and possibly ECF would have deleted the name anyway. I'm glad they emailed me and informed me about it, they didn't have to do that. I'll tell you in a PM, but it was an https encrypted transaction and I blame the hackers, not this well known company. About brick and mortar, it's true no matter where you use your card it ends up on a computer. I don't know if it's easier to hack an online company, but it's just a damn shame that it's gotten so bad. I have been doing most of my shopping online for over a decade and never had a problem till recently. Crazy!
Alright, here's a link to the form:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1rlxmFudpl1SJhtPaes6Fby5WGqRbOcZSU9Lc-vJroJc/viewform
Please note your personal information will NOT be recorded. This is just to collect basic information.
Please fill that out and submit it if you've suffered from fraud after purchasing from an ecig vendor.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1rlxmFudpl1SJhtPaes6Fby5WGqRbOcZSU9Lc-vJroJc/viewform
Please note your personal information will NOT be recorded. This is just to collect basic information.
Please fill that out and submit it if you've suffered from fraud after purchasing from an ecig vendor.
Yeah, I filled that out, would be curious which company gets the most abused. I like your sig Judge, I've lost a lot of my people to lung cancer.
I just edited it into the first post. I will contact Sarge to see if I can create a forum announcement.
You ROCK. Thank you!
I thought of that when I saw the news about the Groove recall. I saw that the mods here (or one of them) created a form for defective mods and whatnot.....I thought it'd be a great idea to do something like that for fraud cases.
Very nice!
No problem.
As an aside, I won't release the results unless there's something conclusive, as in, after I contact all the vendors that are submitted to find out what processors are being used and if corrective steps have been taken to prevent these issues.
The fraud is OUT OF CONTROL!
I can VERIFY.....the fraud going on here isn't random fraud. It also isn't "normal" for online shopping.
Some people have somehow concluded that there is no elevated fraud happening here in the vape community. That somehow it is just part of online shopping. That is NOT the case. I can assure you guys that, and that is why the issue is so important.
I didn't believe it was likely to be CC processing companies at first....like some suggested......however, after data mining here for a few weeks, I found that there was NO group of vendors that exclusively could be linked to fraud.
There WERE 3-4 vendors that kept popping up. However, I personally tallied about 50 cases where fraud happened, and different vendors were used....not one of those 3-4.
That is why now I reluctantly agree, it is probably CC processing company. I bet a shady CC processing company is to blame.
If anyone is interested in doing MORE work.....Ill pm you the list I tallied....and you can ask the top 3-4 companies which CC processing company they use. That is the only thing I haven't done yet. I DID check the top 3-4's web-sites.....and they don't mention who their CC processing company is.
Please send that list to me if you would. I will add it to the spreadsheet. You can either PM or email to: judgedredd@e-cigarette-forum.com.
Thanks!
I bookmarked the link. If it's okay with you.....until we get a sticky or whatever, I'll refer the link to any threads I see pop up that are fraud related...if the link isn't already mentioned.
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