Carding purchases online?

[Intervap]

My friend (she doesn't vape but she does smoke) and I were discussing how the FDA wants to ban the online sales of electronic cigarettes. E-Cigarettes are not her thing, but she is opinionated on topics involving everyone's freedoms.
She had this idea that you could enter in your driver's license number to prove you are over 18. At first, this seemed like a GREAT compromise. Then I realized one thing...bureaucracy just doesn't work (if there is one thing my job has taught me, this is it).
I don't even know if a vendor could reference these numbers and get a hold of your age? Not to mention variations from state to state and those in large cities that don't drive. In theory, this seems great but I can't just see it happening in practice.
Anyway, is there any possible way we could make a compromise with online sales? I personally feel that is the only way to stop an all out online ban.
What is your idea on "carding" purchases online to make sure they are of legal age? Is this even possible?
I like these little brain-trials and enjoy seeing other peoples ideas on them

 

[stevegmu]

When I smoked, I stuffed my own as a boycott to the Obama cigarette tax. I bought online, as I lived in Northern Virginia, which had no roll your own shops- at least that I knew of. Not sure what happened, but after a couple years, most of the online sites began to require age verification. I had to send them a copy of my driver's license- either by mail, e-mail or fax. I am sure there is also software/interactive age verification that can do the same thing, though. I have no problem doing the same again if I had to for e-nic.

 

[Thrasher]

age verification is done everyday through the credit card companies.
someone could still use dad's CC number though but dad would be liable.

I wil just have to keep buying from overseas, when my mods and batteries come in they are marked as electronic parts and metal tubes. I dont really see how they will be able to stop that either. then again i don't use "ecigs" or premade liquids.

 

[Rickajho]

The "in theory" is in order to have a credit card you must be at least 18 years of age. They could always go that route and restrict on-line transactions to credit cards only, but have to drop bank account related debit card transactions and possibly pre-paid cards as well.

 

[dr g]

I gotta ask -- is mail order really that much of a problem with kids getting tobacco products?

 

[Intervap]

age verification is done everyday through the credit card companies.
someone could still use dad's CC number though but dad would be liable.

I wil just have to keep buying from overseas, when my mods and batteries come in they are marked as electronic parts and metal tubes. I dont really see how they will be able to stop that either. then again i don't use "ecigs" or premade liquids.

My job requires me to classify imported products specifically and I will tell you the FDA will make sure they are classified correctly and the FCC will be right behind with the APVs. For God's sake, the FDA is regulating imported laser printers now (because some ...... are hurting themselves with the lasers). I see this as an almost certainty, especially with e-juices. You may be able to buy mods, but your juices are out of the picture if the FDA wins.
And for the credit cards, I don't have one and don't know if I would get one just to get e-liquid (have a semi-rational fear of debt). I'm not sure how many are on the same boat as me though.

 

[Barbara21]

My job requires me to classify imported products specifically and I will tell you the FDA will make sure they are classified correctly and the FCC will be right behind with the APVs. For God's sake, the FDA is regulating imported laser printers now (because some ...... are hurting themselves with the lasers). I see this as an almost certainty, especially with e-juices. You may be able to buy mods, but your juices are out of the picture if the FDA wins.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I really don't know how it works. How could the FDA force foreign companies to do anything?

 

[jow350]

I'm not trying to argue with you, I really don't know how it works. How could the FDA force foreign companies to do anything?

Apparently the FDA does have the power to stop shipments at the border, so if a company wants to successfully ship to the US they'll have to comply...

 

[Intervap]

jow350 is correct.
I'll give you an example to explain how FDA works with importing. I'll use coffee since that's usually what I release for.
The trucking company (or airline, boater, rail, ect.) will send us an invoice of the shipment, including where the product was made and the tariff number of the goods. This will narrow it down to something like Whole Bean Roasted Non-Decaf Coffee, for example. They could create tariff numbers for different kinds of mods and different ratios of pg/vg juice, can't say what will happen with that. I enter in all the necessary information (most importantly the country of origin and tariff number) and it goes to customs and the necessary agencies, in this case the FDA. FDA evaluates the information and will either send us Prior Notice Numbers, which means it is free to cross, or a review. This is all done before the goods attempt to cross. If the load is on review and we have gone through the necessary mumbo jumbo, when the load is at the border FDA will evaluate the physical load. They may or may not do tests to evaluate the safety of the products, that is at their discretion. If they see something they don't like, it will not be let into the USA and be sent back to the shipper. If all is good, the load goes on its merry little way.

I cannot say if electronic cigarettes will go through this system, but tobacco does and is under more strict regulations. If this is the way it will end up being, you bet cost will go up.
I hope this helped answer your question Barbara.

 

[Ken_A]

sorry... I do not give my credit card number over the phone. I do not use my regular credit card online.

and absolutely, under no circumstances will I EVER post a copy of my drivers licence in the mail or online to anyone that I do not personally know needs it for my work. and at that, it's certified and insured overnight mail.

 

[degnr8]

Apparently the FDA does have the power to stop shipments at the border, so if a company wants to successfully ship to the US they'll have to comply...

Or get creative with the labeling. You can be accurate and still misleading.

 

[bikerbeagle]

There has been at least a few reports here of certain companies in certain states requiring you to mail or fax a copy of your driver's license to them before they will release the order. It is not a foolproof method, but sadly one of the most reliable as it is a reasonable (if not somewhat naive) assumption that a minor child would not have access to / possession of his/her parents' identification without their knowledge.

There are ways to do age verification online from a technological standpoint. The easiest, I think, would be to add an 'age' flag/code to the existing credit/debit card approval process through your bank. Right now, approval is done by simply passing a request to the bank (through a processor) with an amount of the transaction and the bank responding with a code stating approval, denial, or 'hold for review' based on a simple 'funds available' check. This system could be expanded - fairly easily I would think - to allow a vendor to pass their request with the amount plus a code that says this is for a +18 product (or +21 in case of alcohol) ...the bank, who has validated your identity any number of ways IN PERSON when you opened the account, can then pass back an approval/decline by doing not only a 'funds available' check, but an age check as well. No personal information gets passed during this process - just codes/flags.

Of course, this isn't foolproof either - a minor child could simply be using his/her parents' credit/debit card which would automatically pass them in an age verification check. *shrug* If you want to play that game, you will paint yourself into a corner where the only option is to simply not sell *anything* requiring an age check online unless you are forced to go in person to pick it up. There really is no way to do a 100% valid age check without that person standing right in front of you (but if my 19-21 years were any indication, that isn't all that reliable either ;-P).

 

[Abbell]

Porn sites have been using the credit card "age verification" for years... it is as bogus as a $13 bill.

The ONLY thing the FDA can possibly stop is the liquid nicotine. There are workarounds for every other part of the process and every city has someone who can build a mod and sell it if you can't.

Flavors can be legally bought
Glycerin can be legally bought
Propylene Glycol can be legally bought

You can build your own power source and atomizer fairly easily

 

[Myrany]

Porn sites have been using the credit card "age verification" for years... it is as bogus as a $13 bill.

The ONLY thing the FDA can possibly stop is the liquid nicotine. There are workarounds for every other part of the process and every city has someone who can build a mod and sell it if you can't.

Flavors can be legally bought
Glycerin can be legally bought
Propylene Glycol can be legally bought

You can build your own power source and atomizer fairly easily

Maybe you know someone that can and would build a device in your city. I don't know another vaper in mine nor do I know anyone that could build a device from instructions.

Maybe you can build your own mod and atomizer fairy easily. I could MAYBE muddle through building a puck box but I am clueless on how to do an atomizer.

Please do not make assumptions for the rest of us.

 

[stevegmu]

My ProVari and his little sister Mini will probably outlive me. No need to jerry rig together mods.