E-cig article in the Ohio Sun-Herald online edition...
Case has E-cigarette industry fired up - news-herald.com
Case has E-cigarette industry fired up - news-herald.com
- Status
Quote from the article:
I am curious what medical supply companies do with e-cigs.
I am curious what medical supply companies do with e-cigs.
sneaky sneaky. Darn shame really. I used to have vengeful priorities back in the day...
- Apr 2, 2009
- 5,171
- 13,288
- 67
I think that this article is very good, as are Cangemi's comments (except for his criticism of Chinese made products).
Everyone wants to rag on Chinese products. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the guy who ran that plant that put melamine in the pet food executed? Maybe it was the exec. who's company adulterated baby food. Regardless of the case, it is standard practice in China to prosecute/imprison/execute executives who are guilty of killing for profit.
Contrast that to the U.S. where an executive whos company's products kill, maim, pollute and destroy are protected by law from any personal liability. Furthermore, as long as the death and destruction is not exposed to media scrutiny or attacked by John Edwards types, he'd get multi-million dollar bonuses for "efficiency". If the company is caught, the worse that would happen is that the exec. would be voted out by the B.O.D., granted a giant severance package, and quickly re-hired as CEO of another company.
I think if you looked at the RATE of product defects from China, you'd find it's no worse than anywhere else, except maybe some European countries. It's certainly no worse than the rate of product defects in the U.S.. If a country makes 99% of everything, they're going to have 99% of the manufacturing problems. The difference is, there is accountability in China. In Japan, a CEO commits Hare Kari when they screw up big time. In the U.S., a corporation does a cost/benefit analysis before it kills for profit, (Ford Pinto). It's CEO is a shareholder's hero and immune from personal liability under the laws (which were written by corporate lobbyists and lawyers in the first place).
Can anyone tell me the last time an American CEO was held personally liable for killing/maiming/polluting for profit?
Didn't think so.
Since the SCOTUS consists largely of corporate mouthpieces dressed up in black robes, men who spent their entire careers doing nothing but defending corporations, this is unlikely to change (eg. the Citizens United case).
Bottom line is I trust Chinese manufacturers as much, if not more, than Amerikan ones. And if it weren't for Amerikan Corporations skimping on specs. and forcing the Chinese to cheapen everything, they'd be making things better than we do. They have the capability. They just can't use it while satisfying the "make it cheaper" demands of Amerikan importers.
Contrast that to the U.S. where an executive whos company's products kill, maim, pollute and destroy are protected by law from any personal liability. Furthermore, as long as the death and destruction is not exposed to media scrutiny or attacked by John Edwards types, he'd get multi-million dollar bonuses for "efficiency". If the company is caught, the worse that would happen is that the exec. would be voted out by the B.O.D., granted a giant severance package, and quickly re-hired as CEO of another company.
I think if you looked at the RATE of product defects from China, you'd find it's no worse than anywhere else, except maybe some European countries. It's certainly no worse than the rate of product defects in the U.S.. If a country makes 99% of everything, they're going to have 99% of the manufacturing problems. The difference is, there is accountability in China. In Japan, a CEO commits Hare Kari when they screw up big time. In the U.S., a corporation does a cost/benefit analysis before it kills for profit, (Ford Pinto). It's CEO is a shareholder's hero and immune from personal liability under the laws (which were written by corporate lobbyists and lawyers in the first place).
Can anyone tell me the last time an American CEO was held personally liable for killing/maiming/polluting for profit?
Didn't think so.
Since the SCOTUS consists largely of corporate mouthpieces dressed up in black robes, men who spent their entire careers doing nothing but defending corporations, this is unlikely to change (eg. the Citizens United case).
Bottom line is I trust Chinese manufacturers as much, if not more, than Amerikan ones. And if it weren't for Amerikan Corporations skimping on specs. and forcing the Chinese to cheapen everything, they'd be making things better than we do. They have the capability. They just can't use it while satisfying the "make it cheaper" demands of Amerikan importers.
Last edited:
Ignore me.. Was replying to a post in thread and then realized I misread the initial post. 
We have chains of durable medical supply companies that distribute in many states. We also have pockets of business through retirement homes, and suppliers of products for people in hospice and other assisted living establishments. The application for e-cigs is similar to any other....where smokers and non smokers co-exist, e-cigs are preferred.
t9c,
I can't say I appreciate or agree with your personal insult, or anything in your post for that matter (but when one of my customers emailed me about your comments I wanted to set the record straight).
The article is from a Newspaper - The News Herald. I didn't pay for it. Go to Cleveland.com and do a search for Liberty Stix and you will see another article from this past Wednesday. Why would you come onto a forum and publicly bash a company when you don't really have accurate information?
As far as my claims go, I have the highest BBB rating (or tied for the highest rating), in the entire e-cig industry. Go to the Better Business Bureau's site BBB.org, look us up. Also feel free to google University of California Liberty Stix, we're there too. Lastly, go to cigreviews.com. THOSE are the facts.
Please keep the self aggrandizing to yourself. It's not necessary to take shots at me when you base your statements off zero empirical evidence. In regards to our pricing, it is in line with the quality and SERVICE that we provide (in addition to our lifetime warranty). You can revisit the article and view my lengthy comment that I put in response to a poster with similar criticisms etc. My post can also address some of your issues with our company.
To be honest, I'd appreciate a retraction and apology. Also, please list our "unfounded claims". I'd be happy to resolve anything you would construe as obscure. Additionally, I am not about to list trade secrets etc. However, some claims can be verified through the BBB (without me divulging proprietary information), as I was told to submit documentation that supported alot of our website claims.
Thanks and Happy Vaping.
Sebastian
P.S. Your post, given that my claims are supported, is nothing short of libelous, and I will take appropriate action if necessary.
I opologize if I hurt your feelings. Consider my comments retracted.
Sebastian, may I ask the mAh rating on your batteries and the ohm rating on your cartomizers? Also, if your atomizers are not RN4081s as Rooks claimed, may I ask what model they are? Or is it your contention that they are an exclusive model made for and sold only by your company? Will any other type of atomizer or cartomizer work with your battery, and will any other type of battery work with your atomizers and cartomizers?
Last edited:
T9C,
No problem. It doesn't really have to do with my feelings though. It just has to do with a brand that I have built. Our company's has core values of quality, customer service, and innovation....and building them into an industry that doesn't allow for much wiggle room.
Customer service is a facet of this industry that has gotten alot of flack, and with alot of the companies not having good quality product (or backing it up when it isn't up to snuff), it's something we want to excel at at LS. Consistent cartridges that last 200 puffs -for our Eagle Edition (and yes I am aware our site hasn't been updated on that, but the entire site is being facelifted this week).
I can't find the lifetime warranty on your site. This page says a limited 30 day warranty.
Liberty Stix - Customer Service
You say this in one of your responses to the article:
Liberty Stix - Customer Service
You say this in one of your responses to the article:
Last edited:
Exactly how is your company registered with the FDA Sebastian? I was unaware that the FDA endorsed or approved of any electronic cigarette currently. In what capacity is it registered? Do you manufacture the hardware that you sell on your site?
"We'd also like it to be regulated on a case-by-case scenario. We hold ourselves to a higher standard than a lot of the other companies. Our electronic cigarette formula is manufactured in the United States. It's not coming from China. I've been a staunch advocate against the Chinese stuff they're bringing from overseas because I don't think they have the testing we have."
So your company uses nothing that is imported from China?
You hold yourself to a higher standard? Have you paid for the same testing that the FDA scrutinized the Chinese products with. That would be at least an equal standard if not higher. Are those reports available for public review?
From your testimonial page "as a healthy alternative, a temporary substitute, or a medical necessity." You have proof that ecigs are "healthy" I'd sure like to see it, it would save me feeling anxiety over the FDA banning them. How in the world are ecigs a "medical necessity"?
"Your post, given that my claims are supported, is nothing short of libelous, and I will take appropriate action if necessary." Hmmm, I'd like to see that argued in a court of law.
"We'd also like it to be regulated on a case-by-case scenario. We hold ourselves to a higher standard than a lot of the other companies. Our electronic cigarette formula is manufactured in the United States. It's not coming from China. I've been a staunch advocate against the Chinese stuff they're bringing from overseas because I don't think they have the testing we have."
So your company uses nothing that is imported from China?
You hold yourself to a higher standard? Have you paid for the same testing that the FDA scrutinized the Chinese products with. That would be at least an equal standard if not higher. Are those reports available for public review?
From your testimonial page "as a healthy alternative, a temporary substitute, or a medical necessity." You have proof that ecigs are "healthy" I'd sure like to see it, it would save me feeling anxiety over the FDA banning them. How in the world are ecigs a "medical necessity"?
"Your post, given that my claims are supported, is nothing short of libelous, and I will take appropriate action if necessary." Hmmm, I'd like to see that argued in a court of law.
For the record, I'm not just trying to give you a hard time. If this thing is as great as you claim, and there's a lifetime warranty, I might sell the stuff I have now and go with this.
I forgot this in my previous post. You respond with threats of litigation to a poster on this forum that was expressing his opinion in an arena that should be open to people honestly sharing ideas and thoughts. The thing that really burns me up is that in my OPINION your website gave me the impression that you have some kind of permission from the FDA allowing you to sell ecigs, when currently no ecigs are regulated. For someone that has not researched ecigs it appears that there are no risks in using ecigs.
"Liberty Stix has been extensively tested and the cartridges have been toxicologically tested and none of the ingredients are considered cancer-causing agents. Additionally, Liberty Stix is currently engaged in pulmonary clinical testing, as well as testing through pediatricians that show fewer occurrences of upper respiratory infections, ear infections, and bronchitis in children of former smokers who have switched to Liberty Stix." Are those reports available for review?
Oops, didn't see this page before I responded.
"What does the FDA say about Liberty Stix?
Liberty Stix has yet to be approved by the FDA as a tobacco cessation product. However, we are registered with the FDA. Additionally, the FDA has issued a warning based on studies of Chinese based cartridge formulas. At Liberty Stix, quality, customer service, and innovation are our core values. We stand behind our AMERICAN made cartridge formula, made with 100% pharmaceutical grade ingredients, and agree with the FDA that some other formulas that are available in the market place do have fillers and potentially harmful ingredients. The Liberty Stix cartridge formula does not contain these ingredients.
Our current formula is made in the US and has not yet been evaluated to have these toxins, but does not contain any of the ingredients that the FDA has mentioned. None of the information on our website, implied or otherwise, has been evaluated by the FDA. Liberty Stix is an alternative to traditional tobacco cigarettes and has not yet proven to be a healthy alternative to traditional tobacco."
Well, that gets to the heart of it, doesn't it. Reading the fine print does help, though I imagine someone new to ecigs would gather from your site that you were sanctioned to sell ecigs because the FDA had evaluated your products.
A very fine line indeed between libel and false advertising.
"Liberty Stix has been extensively tested and the cartridges have been toxicologically tested and none of the ingredients are considered cancer-causing agents. Additionally, Liberty Stix is currently engaged in pulmonary clinical testing, as well as testing through pediatricians that show fewer occurrences of upper respiratory infections, ear infections, and bronchitis in children of former smokers who have switched to Liberty Stix." Are those reports available for review?
Oops, didn't see this page before I responded.
"What does the FDA say about Liberty Stix?
Liberty Stix has yet to be approved by the FDA as a tobacco cessation product. However, we are registered with the FDA. Additionally, the FDA has issued a warning based on studies of Chinese based cartridge formulas. At Liberty Stix, quality, customer service, and innovation are our core values. We stand behind our AMERICAN made cartridge formula, made with 100% pharmaceutical grade ingredients, and agree with the FDA that some other formulas that are available in the market place do have fillers and potentially harmful ingredients. The Liberty Stix cartridge formula does not contain these ingredients.
Our current formula is made in the US and has not yet been evaluated to have these toxins, but does not contain any of the ingredients that the FDA has mentioned. None of the information on our website, implied or otherwise, has been evaluated by the FDA. Liberty Stix is an alternative to traditional tobacco cigarettes and has not yet proven to be a healthy alternative to traditional tobacco."
Well, that gets to the heart of it, doesn't it. Reading the fine print does help, though I imagine someone new to ecigs would gather from your site that you were sanctioned to sell ecigs because the FDA had evaluated your products.
A very fine line indeed between libel and false advertising.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
