The costs of running this huge site are paid for by ads. Please consider registering and becoming a Supporting Member for an ad-free experience. Thanks, ECF team.

CDC Finally Saying Stop Vaping THC

Discussion in 'Media and General News' started by LadyAnabel, Sep 27, 2019.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Image has been removed.
URL has been removed.
Email address has been removed.
Media has been removed.
  1. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    I Don't see all this as a Manufactured Outbreak against a Normally Occurring Population.

    What I see is that there have Always been a small amount of people getting Ill from using Tainted Quality Black Market Charts. And these people Didn't Die. So having 20 or 30 people in a state getting Ill per Year are just Not numbers that Blips the Radar much.

    Collectively, the Total Number of Illnesses from "Street Carts" might be in the 1000 ~ 1500 Range. But No One was looking at them Collectively. And the Media Isn't very inclined to point out Negative Aspect of the THC Market. Be it "Legal" or Illegal.

    But then some Bad :censored: entered the THC Pipeline. And there was a Cluster of some Very Serious Illnesses where people got Very Sick. This was News. And what the Media lives for, Pain and Suffering. So the Media fanned the Flames and Ran with it Creating a Firestorm.

    Maybe it was Pesticide Contaminated THC? Or maybe it was FUBAR Cut? Or maybe it was a Bad Batch of Terpenes? Or maybe some Combination of things?

    Who Knows? But you couldn't ask for a More Perfect Storm.

    Because Not Only could the Media watch their Click Analytics go thru the Roof, but they Also had the Perfect Punching Bag to drag out so Everyone could take Cheap Shots at it. You guessed it... e-Cigarettes.

    Now the FDA and CDC could have come out in the Beginning and said "Whoa... Pump the Brakes". This looks like a THC issue. But they Didn't.

    And the FDA and the CDC could have made the Clarification that "Vaping" was a Misleading term. Because that was a Term Exclusively used in the Media to refer to Nicotine e-Cigarettes. But they Didn't do that either.

    In Fact, the FDA and CDC Validated the Media FUD by joining in and calling this a "Vaping Illness". Which must have been seen as Hysterical by people like Mitch Zeller and Bob Redfield/Katherine Lyon Daniel. Because you just Couldn't come up with a Better way to throw e-Cigarettes under the bus. Something they had been doing for Years.

    So what do we have...

    A Baseline amount of people who get Ill from using Poor Quality/Tainted THC Street Carts. Which has been going on for Years. But the Media didn't see it as that big of a deal. And it would Shine a Bad Light on the whole Legalize Pot thing.

    A Very Small Subset of that Group who were Very Unfortunate to get a hold of some Really Bad :censored:.

    A Golden Opportunity for people like the CDC and State Governors to drive the Last Nail in the Tobacco Harm Reduction coffin. Be it for Misguided "Health" Policy. Or to stem the Falling Tax Revenues that e-Cigarettes was causing. Or for Political Drum Beating to the tune of "Children Saving".

    And Lastly, a willing and able Mainstream Media that has No Problem Distorting/Omitting the Truth. Even if it means that their Actions might make a Situation worse. As long as it Points the Public in the Direction they want the Public to be Pointed. And they get a Bunch of Clicks in the process.

    :facepalm:
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. jandrew

    jandrew Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 2, 2013
    Winnipeg
    Of course it isn't all background cases --- that was a tongue in cheek comment that I thought was obvious.

    However, it is a confounding factor --- while the vast majority of lung illness will have a directly attributable cause (mostly infectious), some small percentage of lung illnesses will be "idiopathic" (no known cause). I do not know what the prevalence of such idiopathic lung illnesses might be, but, in the current situation, any such 'idiopathic' case is guaranteed to be a "confirmed" case if the patient has vaped or dabbed within the past 90 days (according to the CDC's posted case definition criteria) ... and could be a "probable" case even in the presence of infection, if the clinical team believes the infection is not the sole cause.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Eskie

    Eskie ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 6, 2016
    NY
    No, it can’t be a “probable “ case if there is any identifying infection. By definition it can’t be. There must be no other possible source of the event than use of some sorta vaping thing. ANY coexisting illness pulls it from the category.

    Acute respiratory failure of this severity in an otherwise healthy population is not something that’s been “overlooked” or “not recognized “ even in association in the past with any THC use. It’s simply too dramatic an event to be missed. Occurrence with drug use, and not just THC unless adulterated with paraquat it something, has long been reported and cataloged. This is not the same, and it hasn’t been overlooked in the past and now just a media creation.

    I’m not claiming the media has acted responsibly, far from it. I think official communication from the CDC and other health departments should have been better. The illness is being used for political benefit in trying to link it to the “teen vaping epidemic”. But it’s real, it hasn’t been seen before, and attention does need to be focused on identifying the cause and eliminating the risk. A thousand cases of respiratory failure in healthy young adults with no explanation demands attention. Otherwise it ends up being like AIDS in the beginning.

    A bunch of previously healthy people showing up with inexplicable infections. Infections that in the beginning did lead to ARDS among the sickest (as well as other organ failure). If it weren’t for the population which at that time was regarded as related developing their illness to lifestyle, and therefore not a general threat to the public, it might have received more attention at the beginning, rather than waiting years before mainstream attention and funds provided to deal with the illness. It would be kinda nice to not repeat that error and focus efforts now rather than later. But it shouldn’t be misused for political gain.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. jandrew

    jandrew Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 2, 2013
    Winnipeg
    I'm sorry, but I am not making up definitions for "confirmed" and "probable" here ... the CDC's case definition criteria are given here (scroll down):

    For State and Local Health Departments
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Eskie

    Eskie ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 6, 2016
    NY
    From your CDC link.
    probable case definiotn for vape related ARDS.JPG

    That's what I just wrote. No evidence that infection is the sole cause of the illness.

    This is getting to be like arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

    If you're confident in your ability to accurately diagnose ARDS and all known causes, then by all means go ahead and view it however you want.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. jandrew

    jandrew Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 2, 2013
    Winnipeg
    You said, and I'll quote it again:
    The CDC says it CAN be a probable case in the presence of infection IF the patient's clinical team BELIEVES the infection is not the sole cause.

    They also say it CAN be a probable case if infection hasn't been ruled out IF the patient's clinical team BELIEVES an infection isn't the sole cause.

    Not sure why you arguing with me ... I said it could be listed as a "probable" case even in the presence of infection if the clinical team believes that isn't the sole cause. You said it could not be a "probable" case with any identifying infection, or basically ANY coexisting illness. But now you agree with the CDC. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Done here.
     
  7. Jazzman

    Jazzman Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 24, 2013
    High Desert, CA
    To my way of thinking this story needs to be kicked under the rug. Like most sensationalist reporting this article is rife with speculation mixed in with the actual facts and it makes the entire article at least a little suspect. For example:

    "In photos obtained by Leafly, the facility appeared to be performing petro-solvent extractions, where a technician concentrates the active ingredient in cannabis, THC. Petro-solvent extraction is legal with a permit in California. The extraction method can sometimes have the effect of concentrating pesticides along with the THC."

    So in that paragraph we have "the facility appeared to be performing petro-solvent extractions". OK, how about not attempting to lead to a conclusion and wait a day or 3 to verify this is correct? Much more compelling. Or this statement "The extraction method can sometimes have the effect of concentrating pesticides along with the THC". Well how about not using the "can sometimes" and waiting to get the facts to see if this actually occurred? While it is a factual statement, this is not useful information about a very serious situation that something can happen, but there is no proof of this.

    Or maybe this quote from the article "There they found an illegal cannabis product manufacturing operation apparently operated by Kushy Punch, a legal state-licensed company." Is it difficult to verify if Kushy Punch employees were onsite or had been observed onsite and was the facility licensed? These are not hard things to verify and would add a fact basis for the articles "appeared to be's" and "can sometimes" that kind of devalue the articles unwritten but heavily alluded to conclusions.

    I don't totally disregard the article, but I think the rush to publish overwhelmed the need to fact check and verify which leads me to think the article "appears to be" correct and "sometimes can" happen. I would much rather have verified facts and data than cleverly worded prose, even if that meant delaying the article for a couple of days. Little things like conclusively stating, with verification, that Kushy Punch did in fact own this facility and performed unlicensed extractions. That alone would lend much greater credence to the article for me and shouldn't be that hard to prove/disprove.
     
  8. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Here's the thing.

    If there was Anything Remotely Legal about what was going on at that Facility, they Wouldn't need a Warrant to Enter it. Because the CA Bureau of Cannabis Control (BCC) can enter Any CA Incensed Retailer/Facility at any time.

    But if it is Not a CA Licensed Facility, then Entry and or Seizure of Evidence could Jeopardize the chances of obtaining a Criminal Conviction.

    Also, using Terms like "May" or "Could Have" or "Might Be" is Journalistically responsible. Because a Criminal Complaint is going to be Filed by a DA. And that Criminal Complaint is almost 100% guaranteed to be adjudicated before a Jury.

    So if this Article was to make Definitive Statements, that could Very Effectively be used by a Defense Team say'n that it was Impossible to obtain a Impartial Jury.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Jazzman

    Jazzman Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 24, 2013
    High Desert, CA
    I'm not disagreeing with you and you are entitled to your opinion, so no worries. That was my take on the article, appreciate it or not. That's a decision you are free to make.
     
  10. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    I hear what you are say'n. And your Original Post did make some Good Points.

    But what I find Very Unusual, and what seems to be Almost Unbelievable, is that this California bust has received about Zero Media Coverage.

    Whereas something like this...

    Minnesota police seize over 75,000 THC vaping cartridges in record bust

    ... was carried for a Full 7 Day National News Cycle.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. stratus.vaping

    stratus.vaping Super Member ECF Veteran

    Probably because it was a straight lift from a Police press release, with the image. It means the media have a ready to go story, no major work to do just layout and there it is. Makes the Police dept happy too as it shows they are effective.

    imho ofc.
     
  12. somdcomputerguy

    somdcomputerguy vaper dedicato Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
  13. United States

    United States Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 17, 2018
    RVA
    Thought of this thread when I saw this.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  14. ScottP

    ScottP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2013
    Houston, TX
    Fair warning: I am going to go REAL tinfoil hat time here. So read at your own risk.

    What if China has been conducting a "silent war" on the US for decades and recently stepped it up due to the so called "trade war"? For decades they have been shipping dangerous products to the US. Everything from toys with lead paint, to make-up that causes cancer, to pet food laced with euthanasia drugs, and much much more. To what end? Maybe just to make profit while killing us or maybe something more nefarious is afoot.

    To be clear this is not what I think, but it does make you wonder. In truth it is more likely that they just don't care what corners they cut to make the most profit. Either way, I NEVER buy products from China that go in or on my body or in or on my pets. They just don't have a good track record for safety. Now when it comes to electronics you really don't have much of a choice these days. Even iPhones are made in China....partly why I buy Samsung phones from South Korea.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  15. ScottP

    ScottP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2013
    Houston, TX
    What? You have never heard of Febtember? It's the month right after Nevuary.
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
  16. plumeguy

    plumeguy Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Those who profit from THC vape products may have more powerful friends than first realized:

    https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article236237128.html#storylink=hpdigest_opinion
     
  17. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    Kinda makes you proud to be vaping a stainless steel body atomizer with an all threaded body and screw connections for the coil.

    I remember taking apart an eGo back in 2011 and finding press fit connections on the coil wire leads. Those were close to the atomizer so it made sense that silver solder would degrade from temps in that area.
     
  18. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    Any Time there is a Huge Pile of Money laying on the Floor, there will be those who will Pick Up Up.

    Be it Legally. Or Illegally. Or thru their Political Influence. Or sometimes, via some Combination of the Three.

    These California politicians once helped regulate legal marijuana. Now they're working for the industry
     
    • Like Like x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice